Starting a 2K erg test

[Jamie Pfeffer]

Read this thread:

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=326&highlight=

Nothing is free, especially a fast start.

Mike Caviston explains the physiology of and offers extensive data on pacing a race.

In that thread, though, Steve Redgrave is quoted as saying that one does in effect have "free strokes" at the beginning. As far as authorities go, no one can trump him.

So at a minimum we have persuasive authority on both sides. Based on that split, I recommend that you experiment well before testing day. Learn what start is ideal for you. Perhaps what works for Steve Redgrave might not work for Mike Caviston. And maybe Caviston's body reacts different from your own.

When I was in college, we practiced starts on the water for maybe 50 hours a year. Of course, an eight-oared shell is more complicated to start than a lone flywheel-based chain. Yet it's still worth investing your time to practice.

[Mike Caviston]

I don’t recall Steve Redgrave being quoted on that thread. Perhaps you are thinking of Xeno. With all due respect to either man, winning Olympic medals does not prove knowledge of physiology. Actual data, not personal opinion or anecdotal experiences, are the ultimate authority. I’ve discussed all aspects of the issue too thoroughly to revisit the topic here, except to say that every human body will pay the price for a fast start, if it produces force by contracting skeletal muscle, and if the energy for muscular contraction is derived from a combination of oxidative phosphorylation, rapid glycolysis, and stored phosphagen compounds. There are natural laws that we all must obey, and they aren’t limited to Newton’s.

[TomR]

By chance while sitting in the orthopedist's waiting room this morning (partial tear of the rotator cuff), I happened upon an article in a sports and exercise journal about pacing a 1500-meter bike race. (I forget the journal's name, Dec 07 date.) This is a roughly 2-minute race. According to the conclusion, even pacing is the most effective strategy.

[PaulS]

Perhaps we could have the proponents of the Free Energy Philosophy do a quick experiment to settle the issue.

1) Take a nice deep breath and hold it for as long as you can.
a) Note the time you managed
2) Set the Erg for a 15 second piece (~100m) and make your race start sequence.
3) Upon completion take a deep breath and hold it as long as you can.
a) Note the time you managed.

If there was no cost to the 15 second blast, the breath hold times should be equal.

Anyway, even if there was this magical energy source, it does create baggage that you must carry for the rest of the piece, so why not use it for the final 15 seconds instead of the first 15? (then you can simply drop the bags immediately)

[michaelb]

I am not sure if Mike C's research conclusively settles the issue, but it makes perfect sense to me and so I am not going to argue with him. If it is true that you can tap into a different energy system for the first 10 secs, I don't see why you need to go below race pace to use that. Going below race pace early is a mental trap that sucks you out too fast and punishes you when you can't hold it. If true, I will happily take 10 secs free at race pace to start, since that means I only have to pay for the next 195 strokes (and any difference in overall time as a result of 3-5 strokes at the beginning is miniscule).

I also wanted to take a moment to say this may be John Rupp's most sensible and coherent post in years:

Any time you are going faster than your planned pace you are wasting energy, especially at the start.

The key is to get to your planned pace and hold it there, not to get to your planned split at the start.

I wouldn't get to your planned split until at least 3/4 of the way through the race, then give it whatever you have left to the finish.

[Nosmo]

In an OTW race it can be a psychological advantage to get a head early because you see your opponents if you are ahead. OR more specifically, you can't see them if you are behind. It doesn't make much sense for an erg race.

[tdekoekkoek]

Mike C: Thanks for stepping in here to reassert your position.

I was a track runner in college and I always ran even splits. I have always had a very hard time with the race starts in rowing. Especially in masters rowing where often many of the competitors in say a masters 8 are not in peak physical shape, it seems very counter productive to blow everything out in the start. Yet team after team do it. For me in the single, I've had best results doing my high rating start, but doing no more than say a high 5 after that. And even then I find it saps my energy for the race. Yet of course if I don't do anything high in the first few strokes I'm down a length or 2 and have to battle back.

Your thoughts?

[p-fitz]

I don’t recall Steve Redgrave being quoted on that thread. Perhaps you are thinking of Xeno. With all due respect to either man, winning Olympic medals does not prove knowledge of physiology.

With all due respect, if I'm taking a physiology exam, I'll follow Mr. Caviston's advice.

If I'm competing in a rowing event, I'll follow the advice of multiple Olympic-medalists.

[Jamie Pfeffer]

I don’t recall Steve Redgrave being quoted on that thread. Perhaps you are thinking of Xeno. With all due respect to either man, winning Olympic medals does not prove knowledge of physiology.

Here's the post referring to Redgrave. I didn't quote the specific name of the thread because I recalled that it referred to you personally. The source is a membr of the UK forum. I guess you're implying that I confused Xeno and Redgrave. Well, they are both Olympic gold-medal winners. And they both advocate starting an erg test with at least a few faster-than-goal-pace strokes. Since we're on the subject of Xeno, he studied physiology at Brown.

Since it's possible that a goal-pace start and a faster-than-goal-pace start can both work well, doesn't it make sense to practice both in training?

"In 2003 I went to Boston for the WIRC and Steve Redgrave was the team captain on a non participating basis. He gave us some talks on tactics, warmup, hydration etc in the days prior to the event. This business of the 'high power start' was something that he discussed in some detail.

He said that the first five to ten strokes should be hit quite/very hard, certainly well above race pace. He said that there is an energy called the alactic energy which is available initially and that if you do not use it then you lose it.

He compared it to the start of a distance run where you stride out freely initially before settling to the pace that you are able to maintain for the longer distance. Everyone must be familiar with that.

I had been hoping to break 7 minutes as a 65 year old and I spoke to him one to one after this particular talk. I know that it sounds ludicrous to query the offerings of a five times olympic gold winner but I asked him if he was absolutely sure about what he had told us. I have to give him credit for not even cracking a smile and he gave me his assurance that it was the thing to do.

I did it, and by 600m done I was wishing that I hadn't. At that point a voice behind me said, 'That's good style and good pace' and it was him. He stayed there for the rest of the race which proved to be one of the most painful I have ever done and I didn't break 7 minutes. I did 7:09 including an enforced short stop at 600m to go because I felt so dreadful.

So, I am a touch wary about the wisdom of the procedure although I still do it, but not quite so hard as I did in that particular race. "

[rowumass]

Not necessarily on-topic, but a coach in Pittsburgh has this on his blog about 2k's: http://launchexhaust.blogspot.com/2007/ ... -test.html

What I end up doing is something like an OTW start, but since I'm shorter tha most of the guys on the team, it ends up being something like 1/4, 3/4, full with minimal layback. At this point, the wheel's spinning, and I use the fourth stroke to emphasize the layback and lengthen the stroke out. Then it's off to the races and (hopefully) a PR.

[skelly1]

You raise a point that confuses me also. As with others I can hit my target split after say 3 or 4 strokes. But the average split is well below my race pace because of the time lost accelerating the flywheel. The only way to push the average split down quickly is to lower the instantaneous splits which results in period sub race pace splits. How do you guys deal with this problem? If I recall clearly I simply ignored my average split and concentrated on the instantaneous split which resulted in a sub PB effort. I have one last 2K shot this coming Sat.

[Nosmo]

You raise a point that confuses me also. As with others I can hit my target split after say 3 or 4 strokes. But the average split is well below my race pace because of the time lost accelerating the flywheel. The only way to push the average split down quickly is to lower the instantaneous splits which results in period sub race pace splits. How do you guys deal with this problem? If I recall clearly I simply ignored my average split and concentrated on the instantaneous split which resulted in a sub PB effort. I have one last 2K shot this coming Sat.

If you just keep it your race pace the rest of the, your average split will come down as those three or four strokes will be averaged in with the remaining 180 to 300 strokes. The first few strokes have very little effect on the final time and can be more then made up in the final sprint. From a strictly energy efficiency point of view there is no reason to go below you average split to make up for the start.

However, there may be very good psychological reasons to get to your average pace quickly or get out in front. The psychological aspect of racing are very important so you need to do what works for you, and that may include taking a power ten or two, or taking some extra hard strokes in the beginning to bring you pace down.

I do best by doing increasing the pace several 10ths of a second each 500. If you do want to go hard to get the average pace to some target after the start, I would recommend taking your time doing it, say over the first 300-500m rather then over the first 100m. Note this advice is for a solo erg test. The emphasis in the Launch Exhaust post (linked above) is to do an erg test like an on the water race.