The Road To Boston 2008

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » January 14th, 2008, 9:34 pm

OK, so I am giving the 4 x 5' TR intervals some thought. My TR range says 1:50-2:00 and I did the 4 x 3' TR sessions at something like 149.9 or 149.8. I just realized since these are 5 minutes long, that this workout will be rowing almost 1500 meters at target 2K race pace four times in a row? I can't do that.

Carla, we're on the same workout I think. I am wondering if this is "why the plan has ranges" ??? There is no way I row approx. 1500m 4 times unless I bring up the pace. If I could repeat that 4 times, then it wouldn't be my target 2K race pace, b/c my 2K pace would then be something lower. It's weird that TR has such a wide band (10 second range), so does anyone else have any thoughts?

I think I have to plan to row a a higher split if I'm going to row almost 6K total in these 4 intervals. I hate the idea of going UP on the TR pace b/c the time of the intervals has gone to 5 minutes. This is bumming me out in advance. :x
Deborah - F 45 HWT

TomR
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Post by TomR » January 14th, 2008, 11:19 pm

Deborah--

Don't be a slave to impossible paces or box yourself in with narrow definitions of training bands that are unattached to reality.

When I did this workout last year at exactly the same point in the lead-up to the Crash-B, I averaged 1.53.2. My HR at the end of the 4th interval was 171 (99% of max). My HR on the 5th interval was 173, max.

Six weeks later I rowed 2k at 1.48+/7.15+.

So TR for me on this workout was 4+ seconds/500 slower than ultimate 2k pace.

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Post by seat5 » January 15th, 2008, 12:14 am

I agree, you just CAN'T do 4 x 5 TR at your race pace. I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do them at but it can't be as fast as "usual" TR. To me it's a totally crazy jump. The last TR workout I did was 5 x 3 (15 min) and now this jumps to 20 min with the intervals 2 whole minutes longer....I say no way to doing it without slowing the pace down.

Tomorrow for me is 2 x 18 UT1, but I have this dreadful monstrosity on Wednesday. If you are doing it Tuesday, your report on it will only serve to demoralize, I'm afraid!
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

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Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » January 15th, 2008, 12:59 am

Tom, thanks for the help. I am incredibly encouraged by your ultimate 2K time based on your approach and your explanation as to what and why you did those TRs. Thank you!

Carla, I just realized that I made a note to my program for last week that I skipped the 5 x 3' TR b/c I was getting started with the trainer the previous weekend and was having trouble doing much of anything on the plan early in the week b/c of the extreme muscle soreness. So, I have to do the 5 x 3' TR this week, and next week I will do the 4 x 5' TR instead of the 3 x 3' TR b/c I don't want to ultimately leave out one of the hardest TR sessions. I'd rather skip the 3 x 3' than skip either one of the longer/harder TR sessions. I hate that I have to skip anything, but all I got in was 4 erg sessions which included yesterday's time trial work, so I never did the true TR workout.

So, no worries. I won't be reporting any 4 x 5' TR tomorrow. I do feel much better hashing some of this out together, so thanks. You guys are great!
Deborah - F 45 HWT

ranger
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Post by ranger » January 15th, 2008, 4:12 am

Beside getting a lot of lung burn and the like, the major effect of sharpening for me is just mental and mechanical--learning to relax while rowing smoothly at high rates.

For me, and for many people, I expect, if you are rowing well, that is, taking a full, strong stroke, 36 spm is just about the limit for relaxed, smooth rowing.

Above that, I feel pushed to get back to the catch, as though I need to _lunge_ out of the finish rather than make a smooth transition back up slide.

For this reason, probably the one most useful thing about sharpening for me is just rowing a lot at 36 spm, the limits of my mechanical efficiency.

Doesn't matter how I do.

I just benefit enormously from putting in thousands and thousands of meters at 36 spm for six weeks or so before I race.

ranger

P.S. I will race at 32 spm.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by Yankeerunner » January 15th, 2008, 8:44 am

Great job on the AN workout Carla. You seem to be doing things right.

Deborah, as long as you go faster than AT pace you will be getting the benefit of TR. No need, indeed no way, that 5' pieces should be done at the fastest end of the TR band.

Last night I took the advice to abandon the CTC and substituted a 500m at 1:43.0 pace. It seems that I should keep something faster than race pace in the repertoire, so I've decided that on the former CTC day I'll stick to 1:43.0 pace and try to add 100m to it each session until I reach The Wall. Unfortunately last night it seeemed harder than expected. I'd shoveled snow for a hour beforehand and although I was feeling good about it and very strong and macho, I must have been more tired out than I'd thought.

1560m 7:00.0 2:14.5 22spm (warmup)
0500m 1:43.0 1:43.0 37spm
1448m 7:00.0 2:25.0 19spm (cooldown)

This morning I was back over at the Hard Nock's Gym at 5:30am for a recovery 5km.

0577m 03:00.0 2:35.8 22spm (warmup)
5000m 22:03.9 2:12.4 23spm
0550m 03:00.0 2:43.6 19spm (cooldown)

S10MPS with the monitor covered except for meteres, 87df, ribs wrapped but still sore through it (not happy about that). Hopefully it's just residual soreness from the shoveling that will dissipate over the next few days.

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Rocket Roy
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Post by Rocket Roy » January 15th, 2008, 4:29 pm

Down to 77.1k's this afternoon. I'm not really dieting much, just cutting down the portion size.

I'm also taking out some Life insurance for when I travel to the World's, because I will be giving it everything and there will be NO SURRENDER!!!!

Big test coming up on the 27th Jan. We are racing the English Championships at Manchester Velodrome. The big guns are there RR and some of the other top 50+lwt's. It'll be a battle for sure as RR is flying in training and I'm still struggling.
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » January 15th, 2008, 5:01 pm

Rocket Roy said:
I'm also taking out some Life insurance for when I travel to the World's, because I will be giving it everything and there will be NO SURRENDER!!!!
Roy, I am laughing out loud in empathy! I just finished this TR workout and told my husband that I went from "Death is imminent" to "Dead" on the last interval. He said I sure was breathing hard for a corpse! :twisted: I will make sure he doesn't read your post and get any bright ideas for being a rich widower after Boston.

I did the 5 x 3' TR and this was the hardest workout I have had:

149.7 / 820m / 31spm
149.6 / 821 / 32
149.6 / 821 / 32
149.7 / 820 / 32
149.8 / 819 / 32

After the fourth one I literally fell onto the floor in pain and missed the start of the last interval. I didn't even care b/c I was so blown away by how hard it was to try to keep these splits.

Clearly I don't currently have the fitness level yet to do one smidgeon better than this. I gave it all I had. I could hear myself saying "Just finish this interval and I promise if you are about to die you don't have to do the next one."

I was thinking last night about how tenuous the situation can be when the mind is stronger than the body. I really want this, but the process--and workouts like today--are incredibly dreadful.
Deborah - F 45 HWT

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Post by tdekoekkoek » January 15th, 2008, 8:36 pm

First serious interval work with an aim to get to race pace.

8*500m witih 1:40 rest. Target 1:42 pace:

1:42.2
1:41.9
1:41.8
1:41.4
1:40.7
1:40.7
1:39.7
1:38.0

2k warmup, 4800m rest and cool down
Trevor de Koekkoek: 46yrs, 190lbs

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Post by TomR » January 15th, 2008, 9:39 pm

Squats at midday and a hard 10k tonight: 2.04.9.

I know that's like a recovery pace for the Rocket, but hell, if everyone was like Roy, he wouldn't be the Rocket, would he?

Deborah--You did 5x3 faster than I did a year ago. That means you're on track to row faster than 7.15, not to put any pressure on you.

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Post by Bob S. » January 15th, 2008, 11:37 pm

Rocket Roy wrote: The big guns are there RR and some of the other top 50+lwt's. It'll be a battle for sure as RR is flying in training and I'm still struggling.
Roy,

Who is RR? I see messages from you and I have seen a member name "roadrunner." How many RRs are there on these forums?

Bob S.

Bob S.
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Post by Bob S. » January 16th, 2008, 12:35 am

For most of you, this thread goes on for almost another six weeks, but my deadline is now only 11 days from today. I am still not certain of making it to Long Beach, but I did sent in my registration fee. It is a commitment of sorts, but only a pittance compared to the trip expenses. The real problem is a lack of motivation. My training program is already just every other day and yesterday I frittered away so much time on pointless endeavors that I didn't have the time to do the intended workout. Instead I did it today. It was supposed to be 5X1.5K@2K+5 with 5'r (active, by choice), but I screwed up setting up the intervals and had only 4X scheduled in. A sort of Sreudian Flip?? I didn't realize it until I started the 8th interval, which was supposed to be the 4th 5' of active rest. Then I notice that the projected distance for it was well over 2500m when I would have expected something in the order of 880m, like the first three active rests. Then I looked at the time remaining, which turned out to be 13+ minutes and I realized that I was into the 15' that I had scheduled in for the last active rest for a cool down. Mixed feelings. Relief that I didn't have to do that fifth 1.5K interval, but guilty conscience for letting my subconscious play little tricks.

Anyway, that took care of the 10th day of the Pete Plan — more or less (mostly less). But there is really not enough time now to complete that 18 workout program, especially, since I probably should be going into the taper mode at this late date. I may finish out the next two, a 15K steady state and a hard, go for the PB, 10K. That would complete what would ordinarily be the second week of the Pete Plan. If I don't miss any additional workout days, that would bring me up through Saturday with one week to go before the race.

I have a couple of options at the race. If I go lightweight, the qualifying time is only 8:40, which should be well within reach. For HWT qualification it is 8:20. Based on my one and only 2K time trial of 8:22.2 this season and my previous experience of improving by 10-20 seconds when I go down into that thick air, there shouldn't be any problem, as long as I stay healthy, but I can never be sure of these things.

W.O report:
Eddie Fletcher w.u., but at higher paces (about an 8:00 base instead of the 8:22.2). 4065m in 19:45.
4X1.5K@2K+3.5/4.5 with 3X5'ar@12spm. Fourth active rest was 15'@12spm. HR at 151 at end of intervals 2, 3, and 4 and in the low 110s at the ends of the active rests. 11376m in 55:55.3.

Bob S.

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Post by seat5 » January 16th, 2008, 9:13 am

I can't believe what a dumb bunny I was this morning! Got up full of dread of the 4 x 5 TR.

I figured I'd do them at about 1:54--1:55, sort of in the middle of the TR band, as I had done 5 x 3 at 1:52.

It was pretty awful. But I had an amazing proof the importance of WHAT YOU THINK in this sport--well, any sport actually--as opposed to what is actually happening. Each interval was borderline miserable with the 3rd to last minute being counted down by 28 or whatever the stroke rate was, the 2nd to last, in halves (14 + 14) and the last one in quarters as I found I could do 7 at a time....

Did my cool down and then checked the stats. Was I ever shocked to see that I had done:

6571 av 1:54.1
1314 1:54.1/28
1320 1:53.6/29
1313 1:54.2/27
1313 1:54.2/28
1311 1:54.4/28

uMMMMMMMM THAT'S 5 X 5 NOT 4 X 5
I remember thinking with the 3rd interval done that I had 2 left...
so, the dreaded 4 x 5 was accomplished--plus an extra interval...no wonder it was getting so hard! But since I had gotten mixed up and thought I was supposed to do it, I was able to. Now I wonder if I could have done 4 x 5 at say 1:52--1:53--but not enough to try it!
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

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Yankeerunner
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Post by Yankeerunner » January 16th, 2008, 9:20 am

Bob, the RR that RR (Rocket Roy) refers to is indeed roadrunner. Not confusing at all. :mrgreen:

Last night I was happy to still be on target for improving my 2km every two days;

1046m 5:00.0 2:23.4 20spm (warmup)
2000m 7:31.4 1:52.9 32spm
0981m 5:00.0 2:32.9 18spm (cooldown)

Nudged the drag up a bit more to 103, kept the ribs wrapped. Satisfied.

splits of:
0500m 1:53.9 31spm
1000m 1:53.8 31spm
1500m 1:54.0 31spm
2000m 1:49.7 34spm


This morning I extended my 'log row' out to 13km, again right on target.

13,000m 56:20.0 2:10.0 23spm

S10MPS with the monitor covered except for meters. Drag factor 88, temperature 49 degrees F, ribs wrapped, David Allan Coe on the CD player. A little tender around the lats area, but tolerable.

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Rocket Roy
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Post by Rocket Roy » January 16th, 2008, 10:07 am

That is great going Rick! I can see you getting pretty darn good at these 2k in the next 6 weeks.
And you'll have absolutely no fear of doing it cos you will have done so many by then. B) B)
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

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