The 2008 Team Moto Madmen and Women

RadioFlyer · Post by **RadioFlyer** » January 8th, 2008, 8:41 pm

C3H6O3 wrote:
RadioFlyer wrote:Average power output was 148 Watts and average stroke rate was 22 SPM.
By comparison, my average power output was 140W with an average stroke rate of 29 s/m. I wonder how your 148W compares to your maximum power output. I came across this and decided to try the tests for myself. I found the entire article interesting but here was what I found to be most applicable to my training (my numbers are in red) ...

Training to Perform

Rowing is an expression of power and endurance. To simplify matters you can consider four areas that determine rowing condition: maximum power, anaerobic capacity, specific aerobic capacity and endurance.

Maximum Power – can be determined by a seven-stroke standing start on the Concept 2 rowing ergometer. With the monitor set to display watts, record the average watts over the seven strokes (369W)

Anaerobic Capacity – set the monitor on the Concept 2 to one minute and record the average power in watts rowed flat out (361W, 34 s/m)

Specific Aerobic Capacity – record the time taken to row 2,000m on the Concept 2 and the average power in watts (7:44.2, 224W, 33 s/m)

Endurance – as above, but over 5000m (21,097m, 1:35:50.2, 140W, 29 s/m)

The average maximum power of the seven-stroke test can be expressed as two values: the actual power and used as a ‘100% reference’, against which the other values are measured. As a rough guide in a rowing crew:

The average anaerobic power measured over one minute should be between 90% and 100% of average maximum power (pass - 98%)

Specific aerobic capacity measured over 2,000m should be between 55-65% of average maximum power (pass - 61%)

Endurance measured over 5000m should be between 45-55% of average maximum power (fail - 38%)
I would be interested in seeing everyone's results.

I'll have to update a few of my times for this but I can guarantee that I will fail the endurance portion in my present condition. I know I am capable of greater than 500 Watts maximum power (my PB in the 500m is 496 Watts over 1:29) so with 148 Watts in the half marathon I'm nowhere close! I'd probably be disappointed in my SAC too.

Then again, I might be able to row a better 21097m without having done 41295m previously the same day!

Sean

michelle · Post by **michelle** » January 8th, 2008, 11:01 pm

C3H6O3 wrote:No. I did the 7-stroke and the 1-minute tests back to back but the other numbers were taken from different workouts. As for your current training, I don't see how a 5k this far out could hurt anything but I'm not your trainer so do as you feel comfortable. Do you have any 2k training rows scheduled? You could use that data. Do you typically use watts as a training guide, Michelle?

My usual training has everything to do with /500 splits and s/m. I've never worked with watts, so I'm quite curious about my stats.
I'm supposed to do 2x 24 min. tomorrow so I'll split out a 5000m in one of them (although I'm supposed to cap my strokerate, but I'll make it work). And then the next day I have 2x2000 at higher rates so I guess I can use one of those. Last week my 2000s were 6seconds/500m off my race pace. Seems slow for only 3 weeks out. I'm a little worried.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » January 9th, 2008, 5:44 am

Great rowing there, I hope you'll recover soon!

LiteTruckRider wrote:...
"Rubber Cow" ha-ha! Haven't heard that one before but it certainly fits!

Did another 25k today, but I'm going to have to take a day or so off, having some minor surgery tomorrow & don't think the Dr. will want me to get the stitches wet.

That's directly translated from the German "Gummikuh".
When recovering from your surgery, you may have some good time googling for "Gummikuh" or "rubbercow".

ancho · Post by **ancho** » January 9th, 2008, 5:46 am

When I'm grown up, I also will ride a BMW. It's only matter of time...
(actually, I very much like the HPII, but maybe then I'm too old for that one

)

C3H6O3 · Post by **C3H6O3** » January 9th, 2008, 9:49 am

michelle wrote:My usual training has everything to do with /500 splits and s/m. I've never worked with watts, so I'm quite curious about my stats.

I'm very curious to see these as well.

michelle wrote:Last week my 2000s were 6seconds/500m off my race pace. Seems slow for only 3 weeks out. I'm a little worried.

Without being privy to your entire training program, it sounds to me like you might be overtraining; putting in a lot of 'junk' meters (i.e. 2x 24 min?). Your competitive distance is 2km, correct? I would recommend going short-to-long like I alluded to in our previous discussion.

LiteTruckRider · Post by **LiteTruckRider** » January 9th, 2008, 10:07 am

kpc744 wrote: Also, with the long distances that are done in one session what do you set the resistance on? Finally, how do you get a picture to show up on the left when you post?

Kris

Kris, I found this video made by Angela Hart on setting the damper on the C2, it's a much better explanation than my previous link. The link is at the bottom of this page.

http://www.concept2.com/us/commercial/c ... efault.asp

Watercross Racer · Post by **Watercross Racer** » January 9th, 2008, 10:08 am

C3H6O3 wrote:I do agree that a full-body, high-intensity approach is far better than bodybuilding methods but Crossfit is not training. Crossfit is working out. Big difference. It's far too unsystematic for serious athletes.

Special Forces / Firefighter men and women are not serious athletes? They are out there literally trying not to get killed.

There is no substitute for training in your real sport, but as far as cross training/gym workouts I have yet to find something better than Crossfit.

Try CF if you have not and if it doesn't produce results you are A) not working hard enough or b) a freak of nature.

kpc744 · Post by **kpc744** » January 9th, 2008, 11:43 am

LiteTruckRider wrote:
kpc744 wrote: Also, with the long distances that are done in one session what do you set the resistance on? Finally, how do you get a picture to show up on the left when you post?

Kris
Kris, I found this video made by Angela Hart on setting the damper on the C2, it's a much better explanation than my previous link. The link is at the bottom of this page.

http://www.concept2.com/us/commercial/c ... efault.asp

Thanks, I found that one too!

Kris

kpc744 · Post by **kpc744** » January 9th, 2008, 12:08 pm

Watercross Racer wrote:
C3H6O3 wrote:I do agree that a full-body, high-intensity approach is far better than bodybuilding methods but Crossfit is not training. Crossfit is working out. Big difference. It's far too unsystematic for serious athletes.
Special Forces / Firefighter men and women are not serious athletes? They are out there literally trying not to get killed.

There is no substitute for training in your real sport, but as far as cross training/gym workouts I have yet to find something better than Crossfit.

Try CF if you have not and if it doesn't produce results you are A) not working hard enough or b) a freak of nature.

I couldn't agree with you more. There is allot of "theory" out there as to how you should train.

At the end of the day, the BEST way to train for racing/riding is racing/riding itself. Nobody can argue that point as any sport specific "training" would pale in comparison doing the sport/activity itself.

True, CrossFit's goal (crossfit.com specifically) is general physical preparedness (GPP). Would it be optimal for a motocrosser to follow crossfit.com to the "T" as Rx'd? Definitely not during the season, but in the off-season it'd be tough to beat it. In season (and just before), you'd want to put more intelligence into the workouts, but what you'd do really wouldn't deviate. The goal in physical training should be to develop/maintain the fitness required to practice/play your sport. To chase anything else is a ludicrous waste of time.

There is no finite culmination in terms of development- the pursuit never ends. Ask any champion in any sport. Culmination is time/event specific. Did you beat your "Cindy" score from last time... then your "working out in the now" culminated into a better performance in Cindy. Do you think that will transfer over into a better performance on your bike?

Are fighters (ie: UFC, martial artists, etc) not serious athletes?

CrossFit is my training program. Thanks CrossFit!

- B.J. Penn, Badass Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt World Champion, UFC Competitor

I've trained everywhere with everyone these guys are the best hands down.

- Eva Twardokens, U.S. Olympic Skier

Kris

C3H6O3 · Post by **C3H6O3** » January 9th, 2008, 1:17 pm

Watercross Racer wrote:Special Forces/Firefighter men and women are not serious athletes? They are out there literally trying not to get killed.

With all due respect to our fighting men and women, no. Not in the context of sport, anyway. Athletes play sports. Trying not to get killed is not a sport.

Watercross Racer wrote:There is no substitute for training in your real sport, but as far as cross training/gym workouts I have yet to find something better than Crossfit.

Like I said, CF is good in that it promotes general high-intensity training. For the average motocross athlete who's familiar with nothing other than bodybuilding, that's a good thing. Speaking as someone who trains people for a living, however, please trust me when I say that there are better methods.

LiteTruckRider · Post by **LiteTruckRider** » January 9th, 2008, 7:09 pm

ancho wrote:That's directly translated from the German "Gummikuh".
When recovering from your surgery, you may have some good time googling for "Gummikuh" or "rubbercow".

I did search for it & was surprised at what I learned, but it makes sense. My first BMW was an R1150RS. First time I really got on the throttle, I was surprised at the way the rear behaved. Eventually got used to it. I don't notice it at all with the LT, but maybe because it's a good deal slower than the RS was. I really like the LT for a large bike because it handles more like a sport bike than the big Honda or HDs. Only thing I'd change about the BMW is that dry clutch.

Doc says no rowing or weightlifting for 10 days-2 weeks. I say she's nuts, but I can't afford a trip to ER just to get stitches re-sewn, so I'll have to do like she says. I was hoping to do a marathon or two this month. Might still be time, but I'm going to fall way back in the rankings. $#%&@! Sorry everyone. Didn't think it would be so long.

2whlrcr · Post by **2whlrcr** » January 9th, 2008, 7:20 pm

Since when do we do, what our doctors tell us to do?

LiteTruckRider · Post by **LiteTruckRider** » January 9th, 2008, 7:25 pm

2whlrcr wrote:Since when do we do, what our doctors tell us to do?

Ha-ha, well, I'm trying to start. That's one of the reasons I joined a team for the VTC, so I'd have an incentive to row more! Looks like I'll be hoofing it for exercise the next few days.

gypsy · Post by **gypsy** » January 9th, 2008, 10:31 pm

Hey everyone!

Great effort guys/gals!

Stitches suck! Don't tear them... listen to your Doc. Although, the skin re-attaches in under 48 hours (unless you're a smoker), better safe than sorry.

I just rowed a PB 10,000m in 48:43:0. I have logged it in, we must get our team back to 8th place!!

Does anyone know of an at-home way to calculate percentage body fat? I don't have a fancy caliper or scale, but there must be a way, right?

2whlrcr · Post by **2whlrcr** » January 9th, 2008, 10:51 pm

gypsy wrote:
Does anyone know of an at-home way to calculate percentage body fat? I don't have a fancy caliper or scale, but there must be a way, right?

A mirror? And not one of those from the circus.

I can't imagine a set of skin fold calipers is very expensive, but I don't really have any idea? Most health clubs have them. Maybe you could go in and just get your percentage checked. I know there is quite a variance for error, with this method.