Natural Stroking Power

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Yankeerunner
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Post by Yankeerunner » January 1st, 2008, 3:31 pm

ranger wrote:Had a good second session today, with an exclusive emphasis on stroking power--shoveling snow!

A foot of Lake effect snow in Ann Arbor this morning.

Beautiful, but quite a bit of work (2 hours or so) to get it (by hand) off of my long driveway.

ranger
How nice. You seem to keep overlooking this though:
Even though I am seven years older, I now do a HMr18 @ 1:52

ranger
Oh really? When?

ranger
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Post by ranger » January 1st, 2008, 4:12 pm

Neither ranger nor I even made the team.
True, Mike.

But you were _trying_ to make the team.

I wasn't really yet ready to compete.

I will be ready for WIRC.

And I have the 50s lwt EIRC championship record, which still stands, now after four years.

You have...

What?

I am now _much_ better than I was in 2003.

You are...

What?

ranger
Last edited by ranger on January 1st, 2008, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ranger
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Post by ranger » January 1st, 2008, 4:15 pm

As much as I agree with cross training, I think I'll stick with sport-specific methods such as can be found on this site (with the USIRT archive). These focus on erg training. Once an athlete is no longer worried about weight he or she can focus on the erg and use cross training for recovery.
No evidence for this at all, Mike.

Are you pointing to yourself as evidence?

This fall, you pulled up 10 seconds short of your (modest) goals.

As it turns out, in the 50s and 55s lwts, those such as Roy and I who have set WRs have used _massive_ cross-training.

As I understand, Graham Watt is also an accomplished athlete in many other areas (running?).

Are you?

Maybe your neglect of cross-training has done you in, Mike.

You are certainly done in, so you might at least be thinking about it.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on January 1st, 2008, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ranger
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Post by ranger » January 1st, 2008, 4:19 pm

Personally, I no longer focus on what athletes did 5 seasons ago.
Well, two years ago, I pulled 6:29.

You have done, what, 6:47?

Hmm.

Bit of a gap there.

In the spring, I pulled 1:38 for 1Kr24 @ 24 spm and 1:30 for 500r30.

Have you tried these tests, Mike?

It would be a bit of a laugher to see what you could do on them.

I have been developing my skills, Mike.

You have been trying to increase your declining aerobic capacity.

Which stategy is going to turn out to be the smarter one?

We'll soon find out.

ranger

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mikvan52
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Post by mikvan52 » January 1st, 2008, 4:50 pm

ranger wrote:
As much as I agree with cross training, I think I'll stick with sport-specific methods such as can be found on this site (with the USIRT archive). These focus on erg training. Once an athlete is no longer worried about weight he or she can focus on the erg and use cross training for recovery.
No evidence for this at all, Mike.

Are you pointing to yourself as evidence? (YES!)

As it turns out, in the 50s and 55s lwts, those such as Roy and I who have set WRs have used _massive_ cross-training. (and Roy subscribes to your forms of training?? :lol: )

As I understand, Graham Watt is also an accomplished athlete in many other areas (running?).

Are you? YES

Maybe your neglect of cross-training has done you in, Mike.(How about a couple of 2:26 marathons, and a 15:20 5k. Or maybe a 52 min 10 miler + a 55 min 10 miler in the same day (running)-my reply That's one big :oops: :!:

You are certainly done in, so you might at least be thinking about it.

ranger
ranger: good training technique has to be matched with good aptitude.

Let's say that there are two hypothetical erg athletes.
One has the highest aptitude and a terrible training plan
the other has lower aptitude and a great plan.

I'm suggesting that you may be more like the former and I'm like the latter.

As a result: I continue to improve by listening to the best coaches in the nation. While you, self trained without any regard for established principles of exercise physiology, are caught in misrepresentations and exaggerations of your feats (answer yankeerunner!) and aspirations (You're disavowal of trying to make the C2 IRT). Secondarily, you have not (to date)improved your erg performances from 5 years ago.

A SUGGESTION:
THERE IS A WELL ESTABLISHED CORRELATION BETWEEN A OPEN RATE 500M PIECE AND 2K PERFORMANCE. IF YOU WANT TO SHOW ANY RESULT OF YOUR TRAINING: 1. MAKE WEIGHT 2.SPEND (roughly) 90 SECONDS AND PULL A 500 TO CONFIRM THE ADVANCEMENT YOU'VE MADE SINCE 2003.

btw: to suggest that I am done in...:lol:

The gap between you (with your better aptitude) and me (with better training) continues to close. Let's keep it friendly, erg-bro' :!: We'll want to shake hands with each other in Boston... B)

I've said many times: I hope we both better the WR next month ~ until then my friend.

Over and out!

Have fun playing in the snow!

=Mike=
55 lwt
1:30.2 500 meters (the day before yesterday) 6:46.6 2k (two weeks ago; down from 7:17 a year ago) and, BTW I did this weighing 160 lbs, not 175 lbs (ranger-weight)
Last edited by mikvan52 on January 2nd, 2008, 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » January 1st, 2008, 4:55 pm

Whoops. :oops:
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

George Dunning
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Post by George Dunning » January 1st, 2008, 5:21 pm

ranger wrote:
Well, two years ago, I pulled 6:29. AS A HEAVEYWEIGHT



ranger
What was your last LW row Ranger, wasnt it over 7 mins, didnt you get your arse kicked by 3 people you rubbished.
'Salaam aleykum'

George Dunning
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Post by George Dunning » January 1st, 2008, 5:23 pm

Yankeerunner wrote:
ranger wrote: Even though I am seven years older, I now do a HMr18 @ 1:52

ranger
Oh really? When?

'In your dreams' doesn't count.
Ranger why dont you answer this question, seems pretty simple to me yet you keep avoiding it .... :shock: maybe it was a lie :shock: :shock:
'Salaam aleykum'

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Rocket Roy
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Post by Rocket Roy » January 1st, 2008, 6:22 pm

I did a Hm at 1.51.7 last week and it was bloody tough! I averaged 29.7spm so if he can do it at 1.52 and 18spm, then he will be pulling 6.10 in his 2k races this year. :wink:

So Mike, I reckon Ranger will be putting the WR out of anyone's reach ever.......
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

TomR
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Post by TomR » January 1st, 2008, 7:44 pm

That's a helluva row Roy.

How's your weight?

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Rocket Roy
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Post by Rocket Roy » January 2nd, 2008, 3:40 am

Hi Tom,

Hope you had a merry xmas and a happy new year. I was at 81 k's for that row, I am now around 79k's. I look to be about 76k's by feb 1st.

This is going to be quite a race this year for the 55+lwt's crown, with Mike, Dennish, that chap from the Chezch Republic and me all fighting for silver, cos I reckon the Hammer is gone to the man from Michigan, he has to be gonna pull a 6.10 or better ---all his training points to it.

What will his start be like? Off at 1.18's for 100m then settle into 1.34 pace for 1k then start to wind it up from there, finishing with 200m at 1.26's. I wish I was watching it now, still I'll catch the replays.
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

TomR
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Post by TomR » January 2nd, 2008, 6:19 pm

Hey Roy,

6.39 will win it. You heard it here, first.

Any 55 lwt who pulls some 1.20s will ultimately pull compensatory strokes in the 1.50s or higher.

You sound like you are on track for an excellent race.

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mikvan52
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Post by mikvan52 » January 2nd, 2008, 9:43 pm

Rocket Roy wrote:I did a Hm at 1.51.7 last week and it was bloody tough! I averaged 29.7spm so if (snip) can do it at 1.52 and 18spm, then (snip) will be pulling 6.10 in (snip's) 2k races this year. :wink:

So Mike, I reckon (snip) will be putting the WR out of anyone's reach ever.......
Wiser to not mention (snip)!

I have to stay focused on replicating real performances such as yours!

1:51.7 avg. for 21,097 meters hmmm. Did you purposely set out to keep the rate under 30 spm? Or, was it a case of pure open-rating enjoyment?
I might give this one a go so we can create more solidarity among those vying for silver.

JimR
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Post by JimR » January 2nd, 2008, 10:12 pm

Rocket Roy wrote:I did a Hm at 1.51.7 last week and it was bloody tough! I averaged 29.7spm ...
I'm a bit confused here, can someone explain how these two "facts" can co-exist ...

1) Roy is following a piss-poor training plan with some know-it-all who doesn't and has no power at all because of it ... and pulls better than a 1:52 HM

2) Ranger have reinvented training on an erg and is faster that elite rowers half his age and can't do anything close to 1:52 for more than a stroke or two (based on all the pictures of his PM4)

My head hurts just thinking about this. It must be the erg equivalent of "bees can't fly" I guess.

As a person of simplistic understanding I just think Roy is a person who seems to walk instead of talk.

Kudos to Roy!

JimR

dennish
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Post by dennish » January 2nd, 2008, 10:23 pm

One error easily corrected here. I'm NOT, repeat, NOT rowing. Spending hours on the bike, making some progress with my jump power, and keeping my word to the coach, I'm only erg as some cross training on bitter cold snowy days. A curiousity however, last weekend on the stepper I was just going along chatting with a friend from the club. Did just shy of an hour. Watts was 338 and HR never went above 140. Seems to me to be about zilch relationship between stepping and rowing.

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