Beginner Back Pain

[[old] worldted]

I'm totally new to rowing. My first day on the Concept 2 was 8/4/05, and I'm NOT in good shape. I've rowed 9 of the first 10 days I've had it, but I'm only gone 2K meters each time. Takes me around 10 min to complete. I'm just not in shape to do 20 minutes, etc at this juncture. My problem/issue is that I'm having back pain. It's nothing sharp, but it's been bothering me enough to question whether or not this exercise is for me. I think my technique is reasonably sound, so I'm thinking that perhaps I've been doing too much too soon. Keep in mind that I'm a total beginner to this activity and am NOT in good shape. Should I be taking more time off even if I'm only doing 2K meters each time I do it? Is this pain simply attributable to doing something I've never done before, and that it will eventually go away? Has anyone else had back pain at the very beginning? Again, I'm pretty concerned about it. Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Ted Smith

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-worldted+Aug 13 2005, 09:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(worldted @ Aug 13 2005, 09:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm totally new to rowing.  My first day on the Concept 2 was 8/4/05, and I'm NOT in good shape.  I've rowed 9 of the first 10 days I've had it, but I'm only gone 2K meters each time.  Takes me around 10 min to complete.  I'm just not in shape to do 20 minutes, etc at this juncture.  My problem/issue is that I'm having back pain.  It's nothing sharp, but it's been bothering me enough to question whether or not this exercise is for me.  I think my technique is reasonably sound, so I'm thinking that perhaps I've been doing too much too soon.  Keep in mind that I'm a total beginner to this activity and am NOT in good shape.  Should I be taking more time off even if I'm only doing 2K meters each time I do it?  Is this pain simply attributable to doing something I've never done before, and that it will eventually go away?  Has anyone else had back pain at the very beginning?  Again, I'm pretty concerned about it.  Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Ted Smith <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Back pain is symptomatic of improper form when rowing, and, of course, weak muscles in the lower back. While you haven't provided enough information to analyse the problem, I think you need to row without straps and start out keeping your back straight (consciously) throughout the process -- force yourself to sit up straight and even with a small arch in your back (leaning back while sitting up straight). Your back should not hurt if you row correctly -- keep that in mind. I have found that the back aches when we jerk on the pull instead of using a smooth pull, and when we pull with our back bend forward (instead of being held straight), thereby putting stressfu force on the spine. Try the foregoing (strapless with back straight with slight backward arch) and let us know if this helps.<br /><br />Mike<br />

[[old] Jumpsoda]

Hi Ted <br /><br />I work as a Physical therapist and we have a couple Concept II 's in our gym. I have a couple alloy rods running down my low back (L2 - L5). When I first started erging and rowing on the water, I would really feel it in my low back after a few days.<br /><br />You want to keep good form for sure but taking a day off really helps too. Sitting puts a lot more pressure on the lower lumbar than standing does. As you go along your back will get stronger.<br /><br />Scott

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-worldted+Aug 13 2005, 09:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(worldted @ Aug 13 2005, 09:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My problem/issue is that I'm having back pain.  I think my technique is reasonably sound, so I'm thinking that perhaps I've been doing too much too soon.  Has anyone else had back pain at the very beginning?  <br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Ted Smith <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi Again Ted,<br /><br />I forgot to mention that when I was using my upper body more than my legs my back really hurt -- at the time, I too was really out of shape and just starting with the Erg, and even when I restarted again I had the same problem. Once I started rowing strapless and began to feel the difference between using my legs instead of my upper body, my back stopped hurting, my leg muscles increased, and I did not get the same upper body workout -- which was fine. <br /><br />If it still hurts then take a day or two off but start doing some crunches to strengthen your inner core so that you will be better able to emphasize better form:<br /><br />PROPER ROWING TECHNIQUE<br /><br />The Catch<br /><br /> * Extend arms straight toward the flywheel.<br /> * Keep wrists flat.<br /> * Lean your upper body slightly forward WITH BACK STRAIGHT BUT NOT STIFF.<br /> * Slide forward on the seat until your shins are vertical (or as close to this as your flexibility will allow). <br /><br />The Drive<br /><br /> * Begin the drive by pressing down your legs.<br /> * Keep your arms straight AND HOLD YOUR BACK FIRM to transfer your leg power up to the handle.<br /> * Gradually bend your arms and swing back with your upper body, prying against the legs until you reach a slight backward lean at the finish. <br /><br />The Finish<br /><br /> * Pull handle all the way into your abdomen.<br /> * Straighten your legs.<br /> * Lean your upper body back SLIGHTLY (BACK STILL STRAIGHT BUT NOT STIFF). <br /><br />The Recovery<br /><br /> * Extend your arms toward the flywheel.<br /> * Lean your upper body forward (BACK STILL STRAIGHT BUT NOT STIFF) at the hips to follow the arms.<br /> * Gradually bend legs to slide forward on the seat. <br /><br />The Catch<br /><br /> * Draw your body forward until the shins are vertical.<br /> * Upper body should be leaning forward at the hips (WITH BACK STRAIGHT BUT NOT STIFF).<br /> * Arms should be fully extended.<br /> * You are ready to take the next stroke. <br /><br />Hope this helps,<br /><br />Mike

[[old] Steelhead]

[quote=Steelhead,Aug 14 2005, 05:11 AM]<br />[quote=worldted,Aug 13 2005, 09:07 PM]My problem/issue is that I'm having back pain. I think my technique is reasonably sound, so I'm thinking that perhaps I've been doing too much too soon. Has anyone else had back pain at the very beginning? <br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Ted Smith <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Ted, here's some information from the UK site that may help:<br /><br />If you've got a question for former Olympic rowing coach Terry O'Neill, send it to terry@concept2.co.uk.<br /><br />Peter Lawley: "I bought an Indoor Rower about two months ago and really enjoy using it. I began very gently at 25 strokes per minute at about level two or three, then upped it gradually.<br /><br />"I started the weight loss programme and after the first session of Anaerobic Threshold work at 3 x 6 minutes and 4 x 6 minutes at around 30spm at resistance seven/eight I sustained severe lower back pain.<br /><br />"I thought my technique was OK, moving my back between about 11 & 1 o'clock positions on the recovery and drive strokes, and pulling with my arms at the last minute so I'm not bending forward, but keeping my back straight and head up.<br /><br />"What could I be doing wrong, and should I discontinue rowing at all until my back heals?"<br /><br />Terry O'Neill: You should stop rowing until your lower back pain settles down.<br /><br />There are two likely reasons for the problem. The first could be tight hamstrings. The second reason could be core stability. The forces created on the rowing machine are divided almost equally between that created by the legs onto the foot stretcher and the force on the handle. The connection is through the lower back and trunk. In the seated position the lower back is almost at the limit of its range of movement and if the muscles of the trunk are relatively weak then you can suffer the problems you describe.<br /><br />The Indoor Rower tends not to cause problems but will expose any muscle imbalance. If you have a sedentary job you will find that the strength in the trunk will decrease at a greater rate than those of the legs. Then, when you row, the trunk muscles do not support the body as they should. The lower back, which through the seated position is already close to its range of movement limit, becomes stressed.<br /><br />When you start any exercise programme it is important to include both stretching for flexibility and core stability exercises both of which you can find on our website at <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/</a> <br /><br />Mike

[[old] Normsthename]

Hi Ted<br />I am also new to rowing, and very unfit.<br />I have been using the rower for the last week,and thought I was doing the technique correctly, but also suffered slight lower back ache, not enough to stop me using the rower, but still annoying.<br />I thought mine was just down to me being so out of condition.<br />I recently saw some posts on the forum about rowing at slow stroke rates, and the times were much faster than I could dream of!<br />Now I have been rowing 500m at 29/30 spm with the last 100m at 36spm approx. going like a madman , and I have only managed a best of 2:10......<br />Now onto the rest of the story. I hooked my rower upto my laptop, and ran the Rowpro software.<br />This has a split time prediction on each stroke, and when rowing I was only getting around 3.00/500m predicted, so I tried to use my legs a lot more, and the figure dropped down to 2.00/500m, so I concluded that I was not using my legs anything like enough.<br />I also noticed when I started to use my legs more, my heartrate shot up fast! meaning I would have to slow the stroke rate right down to bring my heartrate down.<br />Not had a chance to try it in action yet, but I think this is one reason for the backache.....<br />One question I would like to know from experienced rowers, after I started to use my legs, I could get the wattage upto approx. 190 watts, what watts should I be generating??<br /><br />Andy<br />

[[old] jamesg]

190 Watts is plenty for endurance training, which is what the erg's for and what we all need, so long as you do it for >30' a day. The slowest training band (UT2) works out at around 2.2W/kg maximum. If you're seriously overweight, use an ideal weight based on your Height and a BMI of 23-25, where weight = BMI x H^2. H in metres. <br /><br />Best tool to control training bands is the HR monitor however. You decide what band you want to train in remembering that the erg is for aerobic work (Long, Slow, Steady), and then use your heart rate to control your work level. I like to just get on, pull and watch the HR creep up for the first 20' to say 130-140, then keep the pace constant until I can think of something better to do.<br /><br />UT2 band is up to about 67% of HR range, UT1 75% max. If you work within these limits you'll get fit with very little risk of injury and you won't be disabled for the rest of the day.<br /><br />If you record the data, you'll see yourself getting fitter (or a better oarsman): for the same HR, the pace gets faster and a ½h will seem just a warmup.<br /><br />That your HR shoots up is a good signal; it means you're using lots of muscle. This points out the importance of technique, which should always be our starting point, especially if we've never been afloat under coaches orders. <br /> <br />Rowing uses lots of muscle, more in fact than the (my) cardiovascular system can handle for any length of time. So what we do is always row a perfect, long and relaxed stroke, controlling the rating to control the CV load. If a race is done at 36-40, most training is done at 18-22 but for long periods.<br /><br />If you're unfit, note that this does not refer to working muscle only, but also to stability muscle, bones, tendons etc. So take it easy, when injured there's no training. It's a life long job anyway, so there's no hurry.

[[old] Normsthename]

Well I had a try tonight and immediately realised I had been pulling with my back muscles.<br />I tried rowing some very steady rows concentrating on just getting the technique correct. I found a couple of times it seemed to fall into place, but then found I would lose it again, Still I think I am improving.<br />One other 'problem' doing it correct, being so unfit, I could'nt get my heartrate up enough doing it correctly.... I could only get it just over the 100 mark, before I was too knackered, my lungs could'nt keep up!<br />I imagine it is because my muscles are demanding oxygen??? No doubt with a lot of practise I will improve.<br />The main thing to note after tonights half hour on the machine was that my back did'nt hurt at all! I have always felt it after previous sessions.<br />I could feel my legs had done a workout, but nothing serious.<br />The final thing I noted was, I did a 2000m very slow, approx 22-24 spm, and all i concentrated on was the technique, and I almost beat a time I set last week going like a madman at 36spm! <br /><br />Andy

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-Normsthename+Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Normsthename @ Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One other 'problem' doing it correct, being so unfit, I could'nt get my heartrate up enough doing it correctly.... I could only get it just over the 100 mark, before I was too knackered, my lungs could'nt keep up!<br />I imagine it is because my muscles are demanding oxygen??? No doubt with a lot of practise I will improve.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You've only been doing this for 12 days. You won't gain the CV fitness for a while yet. <br /><br />Look at: <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... _intensity' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... tensity</a> <br /><br />It says that the AT level for someone your age/fitness level could be 50% of maxHR.<br />With approximate maxHR being (220-age) 220-43=177. Then 50% of that would be 88 BPM. So not being able to get over the 100 BPM mark isn't outside that ballpark figure.<br /><br />You are not fit enough to try <br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... ical_tools' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... ols</a><br />yet.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Normsthename+Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Normsthename @ Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The final thing I noted was, I did a 2000m very slow, approx 22-24 spm, and all i concentrated on was the technique, and I almost beat a time I set last week going like a madman at 36spm! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Get the technique first, then go for the improvement in times. Set yourself a medium term (3 months from now?) goal of an 8:00 minute 2K. Set a long term goal of a 6:59.9 or better (sub 7) 2K.<br /><br />You may also want to join the Row Pain, Row Gain team.<br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2008' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2008</a>

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Aug 15 2005, 05:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Aug 15 2005, 05:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Normsthename+Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Normsthename @ Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One other 'problem' doing it correct, being so unfit, I could'nt get my heartrate up enough doing it correctly.... I could only get it just over the 100 mark, before I was too knackered, my lungs could'nt keep up!<br />I imagine it is because my muscles are demanding oxygen??? No doubt with a lot of practise I will improve.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You've only been doing this for 12 days. You won't gain the CV fitness for a while yet. <br /><br />Look at: <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... _intensity' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... tensity</a> <br /><br />It says that the AT level for someone your age/fitness level could be 50% of maxHR.<br />With approximate maxHR being (220-age) 220-43=177. Then 50% of that would be 88 BPM. So not being able to get over the 100 BPM mark isn't outside that ballpark figure.<br /><br />You are not fit enough to try <br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... ical_tools' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... ols</a><br />yet.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Normsthename+Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Normsthename @ Aug 16 2005, 12:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The final thing I noted was, I did a 2000m very slow, approx 22-24 spm, and all i concentrated on was the technique, and I almost beat a time I set last week going like a madman at 36spm! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Get the technique first, then go for the improvement in times. Set yourself a medium term (3 months from now?) goal of an 8:00 minute 2K. Set a long term goal of a 6:59.9 or better (sub 7) 2K.<br /><br />You may also want to join the Row Pain, Row Gain team.<br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2008' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2008</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Also, use a low drag.<br /><br />Mike<br />

[[old] Normsthename]

Thanks for all the great advice! <br />I will be working on putting it all into practise.<br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Get the technique first, then go for the improvement in times. Set yourself a medium term (3 months from now?) goal of an 8:00 minute 2K. Set a long term goal of a 6:59.9 or better (sub 7) 2K. </td></tr></table><br />If I manage a 9.00 minute 2K in 3 months I will be jumping for Joy!! Perhaps the 8:00 afterwards in 6 months......<br />Thanks again, now back to the concept.....<br /><br />Andy<br />

[[old] garycolwill]

From one new guy to another, the problem may also be related with your damper setting. When I started (less than a week ago) I had the damper turned all the way up at ten. Since then I have learned that the damper does not affect the intensity of your workout so much as the responsiveness of the "boat" your rowing. The lower settings emulate a fast, light boat and the higher ones emulate larger, cludgier rowboats. Which do you think would strain your back more, a small fast boat or a large slow one?<br /><br />When I posed the question of what damper setting is appropriate, the most common response was 3-4 - it actually has to do with your drag factor (or DF) if I remember right. Several experienced posters mentioned lower back pain or injury at the higher settings, so I've been at 4 since then, and my times have improved.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm brand new, too, so take the above info with an appropriate amount of salt.

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-garycolwill+Aug 30 2005, 10:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(garycolwill @ Aug 30 2005, 10:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->From one new guy to another, the problem may also be related with your damper setting. When I started (less than a week ago) I had the damper turned all the way up at ten. Since then I have learned that the damper does not affect the intensity of your workout so much as the responsiveness of the "boat" your rowing. The lower settings emulate a fast, light boat and the higher ones emulate larger, cludgier rowboats. Which do you think would strain your back more, a small fast boat or a large slow one?<br /><br />When I posed the question of what damper setting is appropriate, the most common response was 3-4 - it actually has to do with your drag factor (or DF) if I remember right. Several experienced posters mentioned lower back pain or injury at the higher settings, so I've been at 4 since then, and my times have improved.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm brand new, too, so take the above info with an appropriate amount of salt. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No pinch of salt needed. You are spot on. <br /><br />The PM3 has a direct display of drag factor as a menu option. The PM2/PM2+ will display drag factor if you press REST and OK together (and don't have a HRM strap).<br /><br />See: <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6659' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6659</a>

[[old] RockinRobin]

<!--QuoteBegin-worldted+Aug 13 2005, 11:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(worldted @ Aug 13 2005, 11:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is this pain simply attributable to doing something I've never done before, and that it will eventually go away?  Has anyone else had back pain at the very beginning?  [right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />When I first started rowing back in June, my hips bothered me something awful, like you, I could only row for short distances. After reading up on some related articles, one recommended doing stretching exercises. I started doing stretching exercises before and after rowing and within a few days the a pain was gone.<br /><br />It's just an idea...might be worth a try if you haven't tried it already. Kinda like what "Mike" said. <br /> <br />Good luck!<br />

[[old] jschmidt63]

please, please be careful and listen to your back.<br /><br />I tore a back muscle last winter that I am still dealing with by overkill on a concept2.