Natural Stroking Power
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kipkeino68
- 500m Poster
- Posts: 95
- Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 5:40 pm
- Location: Leominster, MA
The importance of 10 m/stroke is that it stresses the idea that the boat has to travel a long way each stroke; which is what rowing is all about. For what it's worth I paddle on the erg at around 11-12m/st @ 20-21; and when I raced 10m @ 27 was good enough for medals in my age band. If I let m/st drop to 9, it feels rushed even now. I'm 6'2.
A long time ago, before electronics, coaches wanted to see the puddles chaining; and if you can do this in an eight at a high rating, you are going fast.
As a monitor of what I'm doing on the erg, I prefer Watts and the W/rating ratio. The latter is nothing other than the amount of engineering Work done per stroke.
A long time ago, before electronics, coaches wanted to see the puddles chaining; and if you can do this in an eight at a high rating, you are going fast.
As a monitor of what I'm doing on the erg, I prefer Watts and the W/rating ratio. The latter is nothing other than the amount of engineering Work done per stroke.
08-1940, 183cm, 83kg.
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week. Fading fast.
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week. Fading fast.
10m/s - Continuation of the hijack
10 mps is to ensure that the ratio of recovery to power remains constant. The trouble is that power then has to increase with cube of rating. This inevitably means useful training is at similar ratings.
A 6:30 2k would be at 31 SPM
2k-6 (v-short intervals) would be 33 SPM
2k+22 (marathon pace) would be 25-6 SPM.
Also, the length of stroke must be related to the strength of the individual, otherwise the one size fits all has lightweights rating slower than heavyweights.
A 6:30 2k would be at 31 SPM
2k-6 (v-short intervals) would be 33 SPM
2k+22 (marathon pace) would be 25-6 SPM.
Also, the length of stroke must be related to the strength of the individual, otherwise the one size fits all has lightweights rating slower than heavyweights.
Hello Ranger,ranger wrote:Rowing badly, when I was 50 years old, I pulled 6:28 for 2K.
If learning to row (and train) well is worth 4 seconds per 500m, the prediction would be that I would row 6:16 when I am 60
It will be interesting to see how close I come to that.
The 60s hwt WR is Paul Hendershott's 6:23.7.
The 60s lwt WR is Brian Bailey's 6:42.5.
ranger
I have been "off" for 3-4 years and it is nice to see that you still train hard and write on the forum. Why do you not make regular tests to see how you are doing? You have capacity to go really fast but I think you will not make it mentally if you only make a test every 10 years.
47 years, 186/85
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1195449471.png[/img]
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1195449471.png[/img]
I don't put any limitation on the number and variety of tests I do.Stefan wrote:Hello Ranger,ranger wrote:Rowing badly, when I was 50 years old, I pulled 6:28 for 2K.
If learning to row (and train) well is worth 4 seconds per 500m, the prediction would be that I would row 6:16 when I am 60
It will be interesting to see how close I come to that.
The 60s hwt WR is Paul Hendershott's 6:23.7.
The 60s lwt WR is Brian Bailey's 6:42.5.
ranger
I have been "off" for 3-4 years and it is nice to see that you still train hard and write on the forum. Why do you not make regular tests to see how you are doing? You have capacity to go really fast but I think you will not make it mentally if you only make a test every 10 years.
I do tests whenver I feel ready.
In Feb. 2006, I did a 2K in 6:29.
Last spring, I did 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and 2Kr20 @ 1:46.
Those were some things I was working on.
So it did some tests to see how I was doing.
I'll be doing some more tests this winter, especially over longer distances.
I seem to be getting my distance rowing back, after a long detour into work on stroking power and technique.
ranger
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Yankeerunner
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:17 pm
- Location: West Newbury, MA
- Contact:
Why do Ranger threads always end with someone calling his bluff? Could it be because he goes on an on with his delusions until they get absurd??Yankeerunner wrote:Yankeerunner wrote:Oh really? When?ranger wrote: Even though I am seven years older, I now do a HMr18 @ 1:52
ranger
.
Still waiting.
I'm sure he actually meant he will do this when he is fully acclimated to the distance, someday, before he stops erging, which is when he is no longer able, which (as he once said) will be when he drops over dead. Or at least this is what Ranger usually means when he tells he tells us he can do something "now".
JimR
Nice "race-base" fartleks this morning, just keeping comfortable--a little bit of race pace, then a little rest, then a little bit of base pace, then a little rest, etc.
Race pace is 1:34 @ 32 spm
Base pace is 1:40 @ 26 spm
I am _really_ getting relaxed with my perfected (!!) technique.
Right on 14 SPI, with a beautiful force curve: quick catch; smooth, left-leaning haystack, 120 kgs. peak pressure.
34 spm will be _very_ comfortable for 500s this winter, when I get around to doing them full bore.
By working on technique for four years, I have increased my stroking power 4 SPI, 1 SPI a year.
At 32 spm, my race rate, that increase in stroking power is worth 128 watts.
10 SPI x 32 spm = 320 watts/1:43 pace
14 SPI x 32 spm = 448 watts/1:32 pace
11 seconds per 500m!
Race pace is 1:34 @ 32 spm
Base pace is 1:40 @ 26 spm
I am _really_ getting relaxed with my perfected (!!) technique.
Right on 14 SPI, with a beautiful force curve: quick catch; smooth, left-leaning haystack, 120 kgs. peak pressure.
34 spm will be _very_ comfortable for 500s this winter, when I get around to doing them full bore.
By working on technique for four years, I have increased my stroking power 4 SPI, 1 SPI a year.
At 32 spm, my race rate, that increase in stroking power is worth 128 watts.
10 SPI x 32 spm = 320 watts/1:43 pace
14 SPI x 32 spm = 448 watts/1:32 pace
11 seconds per 500m!
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George Dunning
- 1k Poster
- Posts: 145
- Joined: October 27th, 2006, 6:15 pm
I needed my "fix" too 
So here I am, on New Year's morning, reading what turns out to be a very concise version of obfuscation that can easily be accomplished in cyber space: where the "I'll be doing some more tests this winter" get blurred with "I have posted with integrity and verification"
It would be less time consuming for forumites to merely watch the rankings for the results from 500m to the marathon for actual ranger (Rich Cureton) results.
=Mike vB= 55 lwt.
oh, BTW: For whatever reasons, 'ranger' has made a personal commitment to not post in the rankings. "....hmmmm" => That's the background noise of the cyber-universe, humming eternally.
Happy New Year.
So here I am, on New Year's morning, reading what turns out to be a very concise version of obfuscation that can easily be accomplished in cyber space: where the "I'll be doing some more tests this winter" get blurred with "I have posted with integrity and verification"
ranger wrote:Stefan wrote:ranger wrote:Rowing badly, when I was 50 years old, I pulled 6:28 for 2K.
If learning to row (and train) well is worth 4 seconds per 500m, the prediction would be that I would row 6:16 when I am 60
It will be interesting to see how close I come to that.
The 60s hwt WR is Paul Hendershott's 6:23.7.
The 60s lwt WR is Brian Bailey's 6:42.5.
ranger
Hello Ranger,
I have been "off" for 3-4 years and it is nice to see that you still train hard and write on the forum. Why do you not make regular tests to see how you are doing? You have capacity to go really fast but I think you will not make it mentally if you only make a test every 10 years.
I don't put any limitation on the number and variety of tests I do.
I do tests whenver I feel ready.
In Feb. 2006, I did a 2K in 6:29.
Last spring, I did 500r30 @ 1:30, 1Kr24 @ 1:38, and 2Kr20 @ 1:46.
Those were some things I was working on.
So it did some tests to see how I was doing.
I'll be doing some more tests this winter, especially over longer distances.
I seem to be getting my distance rowing back, after a long detour into work on stroking power and technique.
ranger
It would be less time consuming for forumites to merely watch the rankings for the results from 500m to the marathon for actual ranger (Rich Cureton) results.
=Mike vB= 55 lwt.
oh, BTW: For whatever reasons, 'ranger' has made a personal commitment to not post in the rankings. "....hmmmm" => That's the background noise of the cyber-universe, humming eternally.
Happy New Year.
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Yankeerunner
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:17 pm
- Location: West Newbury, MA
- Contact:
53m in 12 seconds = 1:53+ pace, a little over 7:28 for a 2km.ranger wrote:Nice "race-base" fartleks this morning, just keeping comfortable--a little bit of race pace, then a little rest, then a little bit of base pace, then a little rest, etc.
Race pace is 1:34 @ 32 spm
Base pace is 1:40 @ 26 spm
I am _really_ getting relaxed with my perfected (!!) technique.
Right on 14 SPI, with a beautiful force curve: quick catch; smooth, left-leaning haystack, 120 kgs. peak pressure.
34 spm will be _very_ comfortable for 500s this winter, when I get around to doing them full bore.
By working on technique for four years, I have increased my stroking power 4 SPI, 1 SPI a year.
At 32 spm, my race rate, that increase in stroking power is worth 128 watts.
10 SPI x 32 spm = 320 watts/1:43 pace
14 SPI x 32 spm = 448 watts/1:32 pace
11 seconds per 500m!
That is actually the most important figure in racing a 2km. Having a stroke or two at 1:30 pace at the end to average 1:53 overall pace won't beat someone doing a steady 1:50 pace for the whole 2km.
P.S. Still waiting for that answer about the HMr18 @ 1:52. When did you do it?
No, not at all, once I get back racing again.'ranger' has made a personal commitment to not post in the rankings
For the last few years, I have just been training, with a few races here and there, just to keep my hand in things.
Back in 2002-2004, I did all of the races and posted my times in all of the rankings.
As I remember, I was first or second in all of the races, for my age and weight.
ranger
So... on the topic of "Natural Stroking Power" on the erg:
We've now have it that snow shoveling and hours on the stepper are highly desirable forms of training ?
As much as I agree with cross training, I think I'll stick with sport-specific methods such as can be found on this site (with the USIRT archive). These focus on erg training. Once an athlete is no longer worried about weight he or she can focus on the erg and use cross training for recovery.
Larry Gluckman, Linda Muri,(of c2's IRT fame) and other top rowing coaches are better sources than the inscrutable and vague instances of others who literally row in the dark w/out a monitor. Test pieces and racing are great assessment tools as is the comparison of such performances with others.
Linda and Larry have made great contributions to US erg racing. This year alone = 8 gold medals at the European Indoor Rowing Championship. Neither ranger nor I even made the team.
Personally, I no longer focus on what athletes did 5 seasons ago. There is a performance 'statute of limitations' after all. It's far shorter than 5 years.
Once again: forum time is best used to gain knowledge... not to list performances from 2003.
=Mike vB=
We've now have it that snow shoveling and hours on the stepper are highly desirable forms of training ?
As much as I agree with cross training, I think I'll stick with sport-specific methods such as can be found on this site (with the USIRT archive). These focus on erg training. Once an athlete is no longer worried about weight he or she can focus on the erg and use cross training for recovery.
Larry Gluckman, Linda Muri,(of c2's IRT fame) and other top rowing coaches are better sources than the inscrutable and vague instances of others who literally row in the dark w/out a monitor. Test pieces and racing are great assessment tools as is the comparison of such performances with others.
Linda and Larry have made great contributions to US erg racing. This year alone = 8 gold medals at the European Indoor Rowing Championship. Neither ranger nor I even made the team.
Personally, I no longer focus on what athletes did 5 seasons ago. There is a performance 'statute of limitations' after all. It's far shorter than 5 years.
Once again: forum time is best used to gain knowledge... not to list performances from 2003.
=Mike vB=