New to this --- Atkins Diet and Rowing Question

[Dale_R]

Hi All,

I've decided to give the rowing thing a go today. My son is in crew and already has a concept 2 machine at home, so it will be easy to start.

I started the Atkins diet at 217 lbs (I'm 5'9" 45yrs) two weeks ago, and I'm already down to 206 after 14 days (within the norm for the Induction Phase).

I am well into ketosis, as per the test strips, and am doing the diet pretty faithfully.

Has anyone else been on the Atkins diet while rowing and what should I look out for?

Thanks!

[tbartman]

I did Atkins a while ago, and found that I did lose some weight, but managed to put it mostly back on. I was not exercising at the time. As with many diets I tried (all without the exercise component), I found any improvements to be temporary.

Then I started erging last fall, watched the diet a bit, and managed to lose 75 lbs and have kept it off for the last 7 months. The exercise made all the difference because it kept me out of the pantry for an hour a day, stopped my metabolism from slowing too much, and generally made me stronger and healthier.

That being said, I do utilize an Atkins-like approach to my meals. Bascially I aim for more protein, and way fewer simple carbs than I ever did before. Given my choice at the Italian restaurant, instead of having the heap of pasta with white sauce, I now choose the roasted chicken with grilled veggies and a red sauce. Major difference in the type of calories there, and the effect on my glucose spikes / hunger pangs.

I'd say if you like the Atkins, keep it going. Definitely exercise, and once you get the concept of the Atkins (e.g. - two eggs or 1 cup of Lucky Charms each has 160 calories, but the effect on your mood, energy, and eating the rest of the day is very different between the two), you'll be fine.

[Dale_R]

Thanks,

I am using the training plan, generated automatically at the UK site, and have finished the first week erging.

[robhen]

There is no such thing as diets only nutritionally sound eating principles.

TBARTMAN is on the right track when it comes to weight control. What he espouses is written up in The CSIRO diet. It found that some people lose weight by eating more protein. The Atkins diet advocates eating too much fat and I would not recommend it.

I personally lost weight by getting rid of some empty calories namely beer, wine and chocolate. And working out 8 to 11 times a week.

[Dale_R]

The weight loss has slowed to about 2.5 lbs per week. I.m up to 40 min per day three times a week. As of the end of the 4th week (two weeks on the erg) I've lost 17 lbs.

Being on a low carb diet hasn't been a problem with the rowing for stamina. I'm probably at about 25 carbs per day. The diet has been varied between fish, beef, and chicken. Salads are green leaf lettuce or spinach.

I've begun eating cold pressed flax seed to help with the constipation. I put three tablespoons in a cup, add about the same of hot water, three splashes of cinnamon (for taste) and 1/2 of a splenda packet. I eat it like oatmeal.

I am having trouble keeping my heartrate within the training bands, though. Maybe because its started off at such a high resting rate.

My goal is a BMI index of 22 from a starting BMI of 32. I'm currently down to a BMI of 30

[johnlvs2run]

The Atkins diet is way too high in fats and toxicity and I'd avoid it like the plague.

The highest I've ever weighed was 170 pounds, after being lax with my diet, eating a lot of ice cream and sweet rolls etc. This was 15+ years ago. I was running 70 miles a week and swimming for 2 hours 3 times a week at the time. My cholesterol was 199 which was a wake up call to get with it. I cut out all the bad foods. My goal was to get to 128 pounds, kind of a stretch but it gave me something to aim for.

I went on the Walter Kempner diet, that he used for more than 50 years to help massively obese people get to a reasonable healthy weight. For him that was 134 pounds at 5' 8 in his 80's. The program was at Duke University but is now long defunct with his passing.

My plan for the diet was to have 1 cup of plain uncle ben's rice every day, divided into 3 portions for 3 meals, with 3 apples peeled cored and chopped. Also I drank 1 gallon of water every day. I drank 1/3 of the water before exercise, 1/3 during and right after exercise, and the other 1/3 by late afternoon. I weighed myself every morning and kept a record of my weight. Every day that I was equal or less to the average for the previous week was highlighted in green and otherwise orange. The same for the week average. I aimed to get as many green highlights as possible.

The result of this, after 6 weeks my total cholesterol was 123, the lowest it's been measured. After 4 months my weight was 133 pounds and I averaged 135 pounds for a week. Then I went off the diet but kept the same principles and often the same meals, as the rice with apple is tasty anyway, and kept at 140 or below for 2 years.

[johnlvs2run]

I met a running friend of mine a few days ago who I'd not seen for quite a few years. The first thing he said was, "John, I had open heart surgery." Huh? This guy was a top runner, still running and coaching soccer with the kids. I was very surprised.

He said one day he was taking out the garbage, felt a twinge down his left arm and felt tired. His wife had him go to the emergency room and they said his heart was strong, he was fine. They sent him to a specialist who said his heart was strong, he was fine. They did more tests and for every one they said his heart was strong, he was fine. Then they ran up a catheter from his groin and said his coronary arteries were 90 percent blocked and told him he had to have surgery right away.

He told me he thinks it was a big mistake to have the surgery, as they didn't give him any option to get other opinions, except for the doctors. I told him he should have asked me and I'd have given him another opinion. Anyway he had the surgery and showed me the scars, they removed arteries from other parts of his body and put them in his heart. He woke up with a big machine on his chest for 8 hours to keep his heart beating. He was out of bed and walking a little the same day, out of the hosptal in 3 days, and he said almost back to normal in a month. But I agree with him about the surgery being a mistake.

The thing is, 1 out of 10 people don't make it through the surgery. When the surgery is a success, the person still needs to change diet and lifestyle or the arteries begin to clog again right away. And the surgery does nothing for all the rest of the circulation of the body. The key is the diet and lifestyle. However, thank goodness my friend is okay and getting on with his life.

I asked if he had been eating a lot of fat in his diet. He said, oh no his diet was always very good, lots of veggies, beans and fruit, I think he said chicken and things like that. I asked if he knew his total cholesterol. He said, ah that was always high, around 300! The doctor told him his body "produced naturally high cholesterol." I asked, how do you produce naturally high cholesterol? He said he didn't know, either do I.

Anyway he had to be getting too much fat in his diet, for his cholesterol to be so high like that. In my opinion and there are studies that support this, the total cholesterol reading sans drugs is an important indicator of one's freedom from excess cholesterol.

Another friend who said he ate healthy had a mild heart attack and was taking medication from a specialist. I asked if he had a high fat diet. He said no, but it turned out he was using a lot of olive oil, and the doctor had told him to use a lot of "good" fats for balance. However, I feel that was a major mistake.

It's fine if your cholesterol is low to try and get a "good" balance whatever that is, but the first key is to get the total cholesterol below 160 and eat healthy. More than 80 percent of the world's population has total cholesterol below 160, so that should be an easy target to obtain. The heart disease risk goes up by 4 times for every 10 points the cholesterol goes up higher than 160.

[Dale_R]

Thanks for the advice john. I agree with you about the doctors. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail....

Same goes true with lawyers. Which is why they shouldn't be in politics... lol

Anyway, your diet is too ascetic for me, as I do love to eat and travel a lot. The Atkins seems to be working. I haven't had a cholesterol test lately, and do not want to get one until I get my weight down, because I need to re-up my life insurance and do not want a high score to mess things up.

I'm a molecular biologist, and the biochemical reasoning behind the Atkins diet appeals to the scientist in me.

[johnlvs2run]

Long's drug stores have the cholesterol test every 3 months or so for $15.

[Dale_R]

Well I weigh in every Monday Morning, and yesterday it was at 193, which means a weight loss of 24 lbs since thanksgiving.

I went skiing in whistler over new years and I could definitely feel the stamina difference in my thighs curtesy of the C2 machine.

I'm not really hungry during the day, nor craving much, except the two days when I didn't take my vitamins. Man, was I starved at dinner! I didn't "break" the atkins diet though, just at larger portions than normal (okay per atkins), and resolved not to skip the vitamins again.

I used to be hungry, no matter what, at 11:00 am before I started the Atkins diet. Now I look at the clock at work and realize that it's 1 or 2 and I better stop for lunch....

I'm on the erg machine only in the mornings as I cannot Erg in the evenings. I am using the Row Pro software, and the training module designed for a 5K training regimine for a beginner. The regimine for weight loss didn't seem to be enough.

[johnlvs2run]

Good for you, Dale.

You're well on the way to becoming a lightweight.

[larkl]

coronary arteries were 90 percent blocked and told him he had to have surgery right away.
He told me he thinks it was a big mistake to have the surgery, as they didn't give him any option to get other opinions, except for the doctors.

The Ornish diet, which is very low fat and vegetarian, has been proved to reverse atherosclerosis. Emergency situations, where you might keel over any minute, might mean surgery anyway. But at lowfat diet clinics they sometimes manage to avoid surgery for people who are in very bad shape.
It's funny because apparently a lot of cardiologists don't mention the Ornish diet even though it works. Because it's considered too difficult.
But I eat similarly to that - at least my diet is similarly lowfat, and it's not hard at all. I don't feel tempted by high fat foods. When I indulge it's in sweet things. I reduced the fat in my diet gradually over many months, with a little computer program to help me count fat grams. That made it easy.
I think a lowfat diet is probably really good for you long term. If it helps reduce atherosclerosis it'll likely keep your blood circulation good in many parts of your body. Maybe help your mind work well as you get older, help you keep your hearing, ...

The thing is, 1 out of 10 people don't make it through the surgery.

A lot of people in the months after open heart surgery have a bad problem with feeling really out of it, mentally zoned, if I remember right. I think there was some kind of problem with the blood supplied by the heart lung machine not being very good. It's something you REALLY want to avoid!

Another friend who said he ate healthy had a mild heart attack and was taking medication from a specialist. I asked if he had a high fat diet. He said no, but it turned out he was using a lot of olive oil

Rudel's experiments with monkeys showed that monounsaturated fat, which is the kind in olive oil, caused atherosclerosis just as much as saturated fat does. Mono fat doesn't do bad things to blood lipids but it encouraged the transport of cholesterol from the liver to the heart as I remember. The people who eat a "heart healthy" Mediterranean diet with tons of olive oil may find out in 25 years they have blocked arteries ...
I don't mean to suggest the Atkins diet is wrong. Some people say it's the only way they can lose weight, and maybe losing the weight somehow is the most important thing. Just some facts to think about.
Laura

[larkl]

Thanks for the advice john. Anyway, your diet is too ascetic for me, as I do love to eat and travel a lot.

A lowfat diet doesn't feel at all ascetic to me. Actually if I ate something high in fat, it would feel like it sat in my stomach like a brick. My body isn't used to it. I just have other foods I love, which aren't high fat.

I reduced the fat in my diet by 10 gms/day every 2 months. Each time I would reduce the amount of fat, it would feel like diet food, like "being good" in an unpleasant way. But then I would get used to it.

I used to use fat like a spice, to make my food appetizing. Now I use spices. There's a wonderful variety of spices available. You can have culinary adventures learning how to use them.

People who are overweight like fat on average more than people who aren't. One reason the Atkins diet and so on are so popular is that overweight people get to eat in a way they tend to prefer.

So long term, getting used to eating like a person who isn't overweight might help you keep weight off. The National Weight Loss Registry studies people who are successful at losing a lot of weight and keeping it off. The people say they eat a low fat diet after they've lost weight. They have lost the weight in many different ways, including Atkins diet. But once they've lost it they keep it off with a low fat diet.

And lots and lots of exercise. The people in their success stories have really turned themselves into athletes! Like they're working out an hour/day or more.

Working out naturally makes people want more carbs.

Laura

[bostonwnb]

My cholesterol was also high - hovering over 200 - and no 'diet' or 'healthy eating' made much of a difference. The caveman diet (similar to Atkins) just made things worse. So in April last year I started a low fat plant-based diet - with zero animal products. No meat, chicken, fish, cheese, dairy. Lots of whole grains, many kinds of beans (fortunately I love them!), chickpeas, lentils, etc. as well as fresh vegetables and fruits. Lately I have been 'refining' my food choices to the point where 90%+ of what I eat is totally unprocessed. I only make exceptions when going out to dinner and eating with friends etc. One does not have to be a P.I.T.A. about this.

I have lost about 20 lbs, I am running personal bests in all distances including marathon and half marathon and my total cholesterol is under 100. Blood pressure in the lowest range of normal. I have not been sick a day since April 2007, sleep like a log and I am literally in the best shape of my life. My wife of 26 years will attest to that. I'm 55. PS: I also do not smoke, and don't use any alcohol or caffeine.

And no, a vegan diet is not boring or difficult to maintain: try it for 3 weeks and you will be AMAZED at the improvement in your general well-being and most importantly, your bloodwork. Of course it is not going to extend anybody's lifespan, but who wants to be (unnecessarily) saddled with heart problems, stroke, ED, type 2 diabetes, and god knows what else, if you can avoid it?

To my way of thinking, exposing myself to all those bad health outcomes just because I want to bite into a juicy bacon and cheeseburger every week, is a very poor choice.

The only two unique ingredients in meat that I am not getting from all the other foods I can eat, are cholesterol and saturated animal fat. There is nothing 'radical' about a plant-based diet and you do not need hunks of meat to have a nice physique. I alternate lifting weights and doing core exercises and have dropped from a 36 to a 34 size pants, and have discovered pecs I thought were long gone.

Keep in mind that some of the biggest most powerful animals in the wild kingdom, including elephants, buffaloes and hippo, are 100% vegan. Their muscle make-up and nutrient requirements are extremely close to that of a human. Yet for some reason we think we HAVE to eat some type of meat to thrive. Vitamin B-12 supplementation is necessary for a vegan diet, but it is a minor issue compared with the loads of saturated fat and unwanted cholesterol that omnivores ingest WITH their B-12. I prefer mine as a part of a regular daily multi-vitamin.

[larkl]

Keep in mind that some of the biggest most powerful animals in the wild kingdom, including elephants, buffaloes and hippo, are 100% vegan. Their muscle make-up and nutrient requirements are extremely close to that of a human. Yet for some reason we think we HAVE to eat some type of meat to thrive.

There are certainly many good points to a vegan diet - however you really do have to be very careful about what you eat to get all your nutrient requirements. The idea that all you have to be concerned about is B-12 isn't true. Some nutrients you can get short of:

Niacin.
The sulfur-containing amino acids methionine and cystine are hard to get from plant foods. Quinoa and amaranth are vegan foods that have them, but most people wouldn't be eating large amounts of them every day.
Vitamin D - if you live in northern latitudes your blood levels of it go down in the winter. Vit. D is very important for the immune system, helps prevent cancer, etc. Actually with vitamin D, it's very hard to get enough from diet, so it's a good idea for anyone to supplement that.
Vitamin E you are likely to be short of in a lowfat diet, and that's also very important. I use a vitamin E supplement called Tocomin Suprabio, which has about the RDA of vit. E in it (not huge amount of vit. E like some supplements) along with some strong antioxidants that are derived from palm oil.
EPA/DHA is also very good for you and you won't get much in a vegan diet. You can get a vegan supplement for EPA AND DHA from water4.net, it's made from algae. Most people get it from fishoil.

I analyzed my diet, which is mostly vegan, using the USDA's nutrients database, and I found those were the things that were difficult to get enough of.

I felt better, I had more energy, after I made sure I had enough of the various nutrients.

If I could eat things like milk and eggs I'd be vegetarian. But not vegan. It's a lot easier to have a complete diet if you're vegetarian and not vegan.

A high-carb lowfat diet is very good for being athletic. It really helped me with trail running when I started eating a high-carb diet. I had so much bounce in the mornings when I'd go running.