High Intensity Vs. Low Intensity For Weight Loss

[[old] akit110]

I have been seeing a lot in the popular fitness press and on the internet about how high-intensity exercise (sometimes defined as pure anaerobic; sometimes defined as working out at the anaerobic threshold) is ultimately more effective in controlling weight and becoming lean than the more traditional recommendation of doing low or moderate intensity long duration aerobic activities. At least, for those who are healthy enough to train at the higher intensity.<br /><br />I think the argument for this is summarized as high intensity exercise (including resistance training, sprinting etc) build or preserves muscle mass. And it is the muscle mass which keeps your basal metabolism rate high. In addition, there are more additional calories expended in recovery post-workout when the intensity is very high. In contrast, the traditional long duration, steady state aerobics tends to burn calories during its execution but have little effect on increasing muscle mass (and in some cases, can have a catabolic effect on muscles). <br /><br />Usually at this point, the example of sprinters and other anaerobic athletes being very lean despite doing almost no aerobic work is trotted out. And the usual recommendations for these 'high intensity' training protocols focuses on lots of resistance training and interval training for cardio several times a week (e.g. Body For Life people).<br /><br />I was curious if anyone here had any opinions on this?

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 18 2005, 07:07 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 18 2005, 07:07 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have been seeing a lot in the popular fitness press and on the internet about how high-intensity exercise (sometimes defined as pure anaerobic; sometimes defined as working out at the anaerobic threshold) is ultimately more effective in controlling weight and becoming lean than the more traditional recommendation of doing low or moderate intensity long duration aerobic activities.  At least, for those who are healthy enough to train at the higher intensity.<br /><br />I think the argument for this is summarized as high intensity exercise (including resistance training, sprinting etc) build or preserves muscle mass.  And it is the muscle mass which keeps your basal metabolism rate high.  In addition, there are more additional calories expended in recovery post-workout when the intensity is very high.  In contrast, the traditional long duration, steady state aerobics tends to burn calories during its execution but have little effect on increasing muscle mass (and in some cases, can have a catabolic effect on muscles).  <br /><br />Usually at this point, the example of sprinters and other anaerobic athletes being very lean despite doing almost no aerobic work is trotted out.  And the usual recommendations for these 'high intensity' training protocols focuses on lots of resistance training and interval training for cardio several times a week (e.g. Body For Life people).<br /><br />I was curious if anyone here had any opinions on this? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Right; on the UK website there are several programs for weight loss based upon interval training. The website provides an individualized program based upon your goals, fitness level, etc., using short duration intense rowing.<br /><br />I am going to begin using this program: since May 1st, I have rowed over 1,000,000 meters and have lost zero pounds and inches, although I am a lot more fit. I think even though my number of metres will drop per week using this program, I should become more fit and lose some weight. Here are the links:<br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php</a> and <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/</a><br /><br />Let me know what you think.<br /><br />Mike

[[old] akit110]

Right; on the UK website there are several programs for weight loss based upon interval training. The website provides an individualized program based upon your goals, fitness level, etc., using short duration intense rowing.<br /><br />I am going to begin using this program: since May 1st, I have rowed over 1,000,000 meters and have lost zero pounds and inches, although I am a lot more fit. I think even though my number of metres will drop per week using this program, I should become more fit and lose some weight. Here are the links:<br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php</a> and <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/</a><br /><br />Let me know what you think.<br /><br />Mike <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I was rowing about 50-60K/week for several months but I also noticed no appreciable loss in weight or inches either. Granted, I was already fairly thin at 164 and 5'11" but I didn't become perceptibly leaner. <br /><br />Lately, I have alternated rowing and weight-training on alternate days. Plus I am planning to do more of my mileage at a high intensity (i.e. intervals). I will see if the effects are any different with this training.<br />

[[old] Steelhead]

[quote=akit110,Aug 18 2005, 01:07 PM]<br />Right; on the UK website there are several programs for weight loss based upon interval training. The website provides an individualized program based upon your goals, fitness level, etc., using short duration intense rowing.<br /><br />I am going to begin using this program: since May 1st, I have rowed over 1,000,000 meters and have lost zero pounds and inches, although I am a lot more fit. I think even though my number of metres will drop per week using this program, I should become more fit and lose some weight. Here are the links:<br /><a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/interactive.php</a> and <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/</a><br /><br />Let me know what you think.<br /><br />Mike <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I was rowing about 50-60K/week for several months but I also noticed no appreciable loss in weight or inches either. Granted, I was already fairly thin at 164 and 5'11" but I didn't become perceptibly leaner. <br /><br />Lately, I have alternated rowing and weight-training on alternate days. Plus I am planning to do more of my mileage at a high intensity (i.e. intervals). I will see if the effects are any different with this training. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />The last time I really lost any weight, I was also pumping iron each day, and rowing, walking, and bicycling. It took me about 3 months to get in top shape. I'll start lifting again as well as erging and see if this helps me knock off some fat. I still need to lose about 50 pounds. I am eating less now, which has to help eventually. <br /><br />I really like being a member of the team; I have never rowed this many meters in such a short time, and the team has been a great motivator!!<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Marathon runners are much leaner and lighter per height than sprinters.<br /><br />For weight loss it is the amount of energy that you use.<br /><br />Intensity is fine. However short term intensity, i.e. a few minutes here and there is not going to do all that much. Stretch it over a longer distance, along with plenty of excursion rowing and that will make much more of a difference.

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marathon runners are much leaner and lighter per height than sprinters.<br /><br />For weight loss it is the amount of energy that you use.<br /><br />Intensity is fine.  However short term intensity, i.e. a few minutes here and there is not going to do all that much.  Stretch it over a longer distance, along with plenty of excursion rowing and that will make much more of a difference. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Marathoners are certainly lighter for a given height than sprinters. <br />I don't think they are appreciably leaner (i.e. %bf), however.

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marathon runners are much leaner and lighter per height than sprinters.<br /><br />For weight loss it is the amount of energy that you use.<br /><br />Intensity is fine.  However short term intensity, i.e. a few minutes here and there is not going to do all that much.  Stretch it over a longer distance, along with plenty of excursion rowing and that will make much more of a difference. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Marathoners are certainly lighter for a given height than sprinters. <br />I don't think they are appreciably leaner (i.e. %bf), however. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Anecdotally, sprinters are tough and muscular while marathoners are weaker in comparison muscularly, but vis-a-vis stamina, marathoners top sprinters. Isn't it really just a question of muscle type. Moreover, the issue in my opinion is not weight loss as much as it is body fat loss. For example, while hiking in the Himalaya I lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks, but it was mostly upper body muscle. Interval training on the erg offers an excellent opportunity to apply interval training, but I suspect the issue is the type of body one wants: lean or muscular. And the issue of how lean and how muscular has to be factored in to one's exercise routine. <br /><br />Again, anecdotally, what I found interesting was that after I had stopped lifting weights and focused on long distances at a slow pace on the erg, when I resumed weight lifting my bench press jumped about 50 pounds. Therefore, in my opinion, rowing does build muscle and I suspect is a great cross-training option for weight lifting. Now I just have to resume weight lifting and see whether my bench press has suffered or improved.<br /><br />In any case, exercise does burn calories regardless of the type, and muscle mass increased mitochondria which ipso facto increases one's metabolism and should therefore result in fat loss (and muscle loss too if one is not careful).<br /><br />I wonder how many calories I burned typing this post? Now off to the Y to row.<br />

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-Steelhead+Aug 19 2005, 10:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Aug 19 2005, 10:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marathon runners are much leaner and lighter per height than sprinters.<br /><br />For weight loss it is the amount of energy that you use.<br /><br />Intensity is fine.  However short term intensity, i.e. a few minutes here and there is not going to do all that much.  Stretch it over a longer distance, along with plenty of excursion rowing and that will make much more of a difference. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Marathoners are certainly lighter for a given height than sprinters. <br />I don't think they are appreciably leaner (i.e. %bf), however. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Anecdotally, sprinters are tough and muscular while marathoners are weaker in comparison muscularly, but vis-a-vis stamina, marathoners top sprinters. Isn't it really just a question of muscle type. Moreover, the issue in my opinion is not weight loss as much as it is body fat loss. For example, while hiking in the Himalaya I lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks, but it was mostly upper body muscle. Interval training on the erg offers an excellent opportunity to apply interval training, but I suspect the issue is the type of body one wants: lean or muscular. And the issue of how lean and how muscular has to be factored in to one's exercise routine. <br /><br />Again, anecdotally, what I found interesting was that after I had stopped lifting weights and focused on long distances at a slow pace on the erg, when I resumed weight lifting my bench press jumped about 50 pounds. Therefore, in my opinion, rowing does build muscle and I suspect is a great cross-training option for weight lifting. Now I just have to resume weight lifting and see whether my bench press has suffered or improved.<br /><br />In any case, exercise does burn calories regardless of the type, and muscle mass increased mitochondria which ipso facto increases one's metabolism and should therefore result in fat loss (and muscle loss too if one is not careful).<br /><br />I wonder how many calories I burned typing this post? Now off to the Y to row. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />One can be skinny but not particularly lean; one can be lean with but not particularly muscular; one can be muscular but not particularly lean and one can be muscular and lean. I think the argument against low intensity stuff is that many recreational aerobic athletes - despite a fair volume of exercise -are in the first category.<br />

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 19 2005, 07:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 19 2005, 07:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Steelhead+Aug 19 2005, 10:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Aug 19 2005, 10:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 19 2005, 01:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marathon runners are much leaner and lighter per height than sprinters.<br /><br />For weight loss it is the amount of energy that you use.<br /><br />Intensity is fine.  However short term intensity, i.e. a few minutes here and there is not going to do all that much.  Stretch it over a longer distance, along with plenty of excursion rowing and that will make much more of a difference. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Marathoners are certainly lighter for a given height than sprinters. <br />I don't think they are appreciably leaner (i.e. %bf), however. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Anecdotally, sprinters are tough and muscular while marathoners are weaker in comparison muscularly, but vis-a-vis stamina, marathoners top sprinters. Isn't it really just a question of muscle type. Moreover, the issue in my opinion is not weight loss as much as it is body fat loss. For example, while hiking in the Himalaya I lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks, but it was mostly upper body muscle. Interval training on the erg offers an excellent opportunity to apply interval training, but I suspect the issue is the type of body one wants: lean or muscular. And the issue of how lean and how muscular has to be factored in to one's exercise routine. <br /><br />Again, anecdotally, what I found interesting was that after I had stopped lifting weights and focused on long distances at a slow pace on the erg, when I resumed weight lifting my bench press jumped about 50 pounds. Therefore, in my opinion, rowing does build muscle and I suspect is a great cross-training option for weight lifting. Now I just have to resume weight lifting and see whether my bench press has suffered or improved.<br /><br />In any case, exercise does burn calories regardless of the type, and muscle mass increased mitochondria which ipso facto increases one's metabolism and should therefore result in fat loss (and muscle loss too if one is not careful).<br /><br />I wonder how many calories I burned typing this post? Now off to the Y to row. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />One can be skinny but not particularly lean; one can be lean with but not particularly muscular; one can be muscular but not particularly lean and one can be muscular and lean. I think the argument against low intensity stuff is that many recreational aerobic athletes - despite a fair volume of exercise -are in the first category. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Agreed. At various times in my life, I have been in all the categories. Muscle is interesting: use it or lose it; use it and grow it.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marathoners are certainly lighter for a given height than sprinters. <br />I don't think they are appreciably leaner (i.e. %bf), however.[right] </td></tr></table><br />I do think.<br /><br />This comparison has been measured and world class marathoners are much leaner than sprinters who compete at similar international levels.<br /><br />The marathoners have a much lower body fat percentage than the sprinters.<br /><br />Also, marathoners are very efficient at storing fat <b>in the muscle fibers</b> where it is readily useable for energy. <br /><br />Body fat that is not in the muscle fibers, as is the case with sprinters, is not useable.<br /><br />Thus a greater percentage of a marathoner's body fat is available to be used for athletic performance.

[[old] John Rupp]

There are a lot of recreational sprinters - weightlifter - bodybuilding types around.<br /><br />Comparing them to recreational runners, I would give the nod even more so to the runners.

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Aug 20 2005, 06:04 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Aug 20 2005, 06:04 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Aug 19 2005, 03:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marathoners are certainly lighter for a given height than sprinters. <br />I don't think they are appreciably leaner (i.e. %bf), however.[right] </td></tr></table><br />I do think.<br /><br />This comparison has been measured and world class marathoners are much leaner than sprinters who compete at similar international levels.<br /><br />The marathoners have a much lower body fat percentage than the sprinters.<br /><br />Also, marathoners are very efficient at storing fat <b>in the muscle fibers</b> where it is readily useable for energy. <br /><br />Body fat that is not in the muscle fibers, as is the case with sprinters, is not useable.<br /><br />Thus a greater percentage of a marathoner's body fat is available to be used for athletic performance. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Oh no doubt elite marathoners are lean and rather than get into a debate about whether a marathoner or a sprinter is leaner with you, I think it is more productive to note that the sprinter, despite a regimen of high intensity and low volume training (relative to a marathoner) is still very lean. This does suggest that high intensity, low volume workouts may <i>also</i> play a role in loss of bodyfat. This is also contrary to conventional wisdom that long duration, low intensity workouts are the only route to a reduction in bf.<br /><br />You suggested that weight loss is a function of the amount of energy one expends earlier in this thread. I agree - <b>but</b> this can be a function of greater activity (e.g. marathon training) <u>or</u> of increased basal metabolic rate due to increased muscle mass and perhaps the post-workout metabolic effects of very high intensity training (e.g. anaerobic training). <br /><br />

[[old] The Dude Abides]

Hey, check this out. Summarizes HIIT pretty well.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/tra ... ape_pr.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/tra ... _pr.htm</a>

[[old] Normsthename]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->since May 1st, I have rowed over 1,000,000 meters and have lost zero pounds and inches, although I am a lot more fit. </td></tr></table><br />Not sure what your actual weight is, I started 37lb over my ideal weight and I have been rowing for 3 weeks, before that I did nothing......<br />Since I got the machine I have rowed a total of approx. 70000 metres<br />I have now lost 8lb and nearly 4" off of my Gut in the three weeks <br />I 'try' to do 6000 metres a day, but when I first started it was nowhere near that, more like 15 minutes maximum was all I could do!<br />Main advice I got was not to go too fast, this would burn the 'wrong' kind of energy instead of burning the fat.<br />I am 43, and usually work at about 100-110 bpm<br /><br />Andy<br />

[[old] Steelhead]

<!--QuoteBegin-Normsthename+Aug 29 2005, 04:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Normsthename @ Aug 29 2005, 04:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->since May 1st, I have rowed over 1,000,000 meters and have lost zero pounds and inches, although I am a lot more fit. </td></tr></table><br />Not sure what your actual weight is, I started 37lb over my ideal weight and I have been rowing for 3 weeks, before that I did nothing......<br />Since I got the machine I have rowed a total of approx. 70000 metres<br />I have now lost 8lb and nearly 4" off of my Gut in the three weeks <br />I 'try' to do 6000 metres a day, but when I first started it was nowhere near that, more like 15 minutes maximum was all I could do!<br />Main advice I got was not to go too fast, this would burn the 'wrong' kind of energy instead of burning the fat.<br />I am 43, and usually work at about 100-110 bpm<br /><br />Andy <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Thanks Andy.<br /><br />I finally lost 13 pounds as of yesterday; however, in starting my weight lifting regime again, I have lost strength, so it appears that by concentrating on rowing I have lost upper body mass.<br /><br />My starting weight was 213 and I'm 59 years old. The most weight I have ever lost in a short time was about 20 lbs in two weeks while climbing in the Himalaya on a 3 week trek (Gokkyo Ri over the Cho La to Mt. Everest) -- and that was all upper body muscle.<br /><br />I'll keep erging away and see if I can get down to my goal weight. In my 20s and 30s I could get back into shape in less than 3 months; not any more.<br /><br />Mike<br />