The Road To Boston 2008

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » December 12th, 2007, 12:06 pm

Yesterday was another 2 x 10'AT. I have to admit that I was nervous in light of the issues I had with this same workout on Sunday.

w/u 4036m

Target 2:00/ spm 27

Actual:

156.5 / 2573m / 28spm

156.9 / 2566m / 28spm

c/d 4041m

Total 13,216m

I found the second interval hard work because at about 5-6 minutes into it, I really felt the fatigue. I am, however, finding that when I get to the final 3 minutes on these 8', 9' and 10' pieces, I start to feel that I'm almost home, and somehow I push through it and drop the split times for a bit of a sprint. After the cool down, I got off the erg feeling pretty good.

One thing is for sure. Doing these 2 10' intervals takes a lot of energy and focus, and I don't think I paid a moment's attention to the spm. I just go into some kind of "keep up the pace" zone and just gut it out and row for the split times. I hope this is not fatal--this year's IP plan never mentions spm, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be watching it.
Deborah - F 45 HWT

Kinley
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Post by Kinley » December 12th, 2007, 1:35 pm

seat5 wrote: Are you going to NE2K this year? ooo that's coming up on us...
My 2k is well over 8 minutes at present, and I can't seem to summon much enthusiasm for improving it. But I plan to go to Rick's race just the same. See you there?

TomR
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Post by TomR » December 12th, 2007, 8:52 pm

yesterday: 40 min UT1. 2.05.8

today: the CTC 15 min. 1.58.3. 3803 mtrs.
originally I thought I might try two of these. bad idea. doing one was a bad idea.

Welcome Kinley.

seat5
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Post by seat5 » December 12th, 2007, 9:38 pm

Good one Tom, I will have to try to match you, maybe tomorrow..but maybe not as today's workout really was hard! And I agree, once is enough on that one, I had considered doing 2 when I did it and it didn't take long for me to nix that plan.

Today was my first TR workout and I truly dreaded it but did my lifting and stuff, an 8K w/u and then gave it a go. It was very hard getting up--after work and driving Mel to karate and then cooking doing dishes practicing and some oneline Christmas shopping only got to bed by 12:45 and 6:00 came WAY too soon.

3 x 3 supposed to be 1:51--1:52/30. Failed miserably:

800 1:52.5/30
795 1:53.2/31 (somehow my metrenome got set on a crazy thing and it really messed me up!!!)
796 1:53.0/30

2 min rest, not sure if that is what I'm supposed to do or not. These intervals felt like hell. How did I ever do 2K faster than that? very discouraging. However I'm sure I will feel better after getting to bed EARLY tonight! No later than 11!!!
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1193870739.png[/img]

seat5
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Post by seat5 » December 14th, 2007, 10:25 pm

Hey Kinley, yes I will be there....

Yesterday I did an hour row, nothing special, all I cared about was doing something better than 14K, steady, and it was fine, 14286 I think. The first set of squats actually hurt, left over from the TR the day before, I expect. It got better after that.

Today was 2 x 10 AT (goal 1:57-1:58/26) Couldn't do it. I mean, I did the time, and I did the 26 spm, but couldn't do the pace, just too tired to get the lead out.
2533 1:58.4/26
2523 1:58.9/26
I have not wanted to quit so badly in a long time, the last 2 minutes of each one was murder. It was so cold this morning and so hard to get up at 6, and of course had gone to bed after midnight, and boy I did not want to get up and work out at all.

Well, a weekend off now and then unfortunately I have a 2K test Monday. However I will NOT did it at the crack of dawn, I will do it when I'm fairly lucid and can walk through a door without hitting both sides!!!

Deb, when do you have to test again?
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1193870739.png[/img]

Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » December 15th, 2007, 12:35 pm

It's been a rough few days here at my house. We don't have children, but we have a 2-1/2 year old Goldendoodle named Logan who got very sick this week and has been hospitalized. He's the love of my life (well, Mr. Rowmaniac is right up there) and I'm trying to stay positive. We are still waiting for a definitive diagnosis, but the lack of sleep, the anxiety, and the sheer stress of worrying about the little guy has been very, very hard. We call him the "smile maker" because he's so lovable, so pardon my need to share a photo, but I can't resist. I miss him.

Image

In any case, I did my 2 x 10' AT workout again yesterday without his company at my side. (He has become a fixture near the erg, apparently enjoying the wind cooling him from the fan wheel despite cooler temps here.) I didn't have much sleep (and now I have even greater respect for Carla's workouts when she sleeps 5 or so hours), but I knew I had to get it done.

I did a 4K warmup

2 x 10'AT Target 2:00/ 28spm

Actual:

156.5 2575m at 28spm

156.8 2569m at 28spm

c/d 4K

I have to say that I got off the erg so incredibly overwhelmed by the effort it took to row those intervals that I lay on the floor to stretch (and complain to my poor husband) that I don't even KNOW any adjectives that would clearly explain how difficult it is to push myself to do these two 10' pieces. I find it THE hardest thing to do that I have had to do on an erg. 10 minutes at that pace feels like an eternity, and the 2nd interval is a killer. I do okay for the first interval, but somewhere close to the end of it, I start realizing I have to do another one, and a slight panic sets in where I wonder how on earth I can do it again. The rest period feels too short, although my HR returns to full recovery by the time I start up again. I would say it was not a good workout mentally until I finished and then I almost cried. I think it was the lack of sleep, the dog, and the sheer realization that I had pushed myself to work this hard, but there is still much to do. I wondered how I can keep up this kind of push for 10 more weeks. The low (fastest) end of my AT bands is 2:00 for a 7:27 test pace, but I've felt that I should try to row what I can do and make myself work as hard as I can. Well, I think I spent all I had. No, check that. I definitely spent all I had.

Carla, I empathize with you about your workouts. I think your schedule and sleep shortage are probably big contributors to your frustrations. Not that the times you are pulling aren't good. You are still rowing below the AT band for the 7:27 2K, so keep that in mind. I know how hard it is to get every second off those splits. These intervals are killers. I am incredibly grateful the intervals are about to get faster but shorter. I think that will suit me better. I have 3 x 7'AT tomorrow then next week is what looks like a slight taper (12'AT, 12'AT and 2x 8'AT on 3 hard days) before my test. My 2K test is due a week from Monday on Dec. 24. HO HO HO--hope I can go.

I also don't start any TR work until about Dec 26 in the middle of week 8. That should be interesting.

Bottom line: I like to sprint or row longer distances, but 10' does not fall within my sweet spot and I hate them. Oh, God. I just saw 3 x 10'AT end of week 8. I think maybe I should stop looking ahead. It's painful.

I'm a little overwhelmed right now. Today I may row a long steady piece just for some HC meters and some stress relief.
Deborah - F 45 HWT

Bob S.
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Post by Bob S. » December 15th, 2007, 4:01 pm

Carla and Deborah,

I get the impression that each of you usually try to do your IP sessions at a slightly faster pace than the range in the chart. Personally I think that this is defeating your purpose. The point of the IP is to stay within the recommended ranges, otherwise your UT2s are really being done as UT1s and so on down the line. This is supposed to be training for a race, not racing itself. I know that it is tempting to push just a little beyond what is required; I have fallen into that trap myself. I have to keep reminding myself that someone put a lot of thought into selecting those ranges and that they must have some sort of validity.

I haven't been on the IP this year. I think that I might take up the Pete Plan for the next six weeks which brings me up to the time of the nearest CB satellite regatta (at Long Beach). I have read here that there have been changes in the IP system. I used to have a lot of trouble with last year's IP system. The rate/pace combinations did not suit me. It is my impression that rates are no longer a part of it. However, I don't care for the idea of trying to use a heart monitor to regulate the sessions. I have never been able to get a good idea of what my max should be and I am not about to find it out the hard way by a 20 or so minute session of increasing intensity to exhaustion. The other problem with heart monitoring is that the signal to the PM3 is often erratic and there are large gaps of time with no HR displayed.

Bob S.

Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo » December 15th, 2007, 10:37 pm

Got to agree with Bob.

There is a huge difference between 2:00 and 1:56.5. If the work out says 2:00 pace, why push yourself to the maximum? Even, a 1:58 would have felt much easier. It doesn't make sense to train to the point where it interferes with your next workout, and if you spent everything doing those two pieces you've gone too hard.

IF the workouts are too hard, because of stress or lack of sleep or whatever life throws at you, you should modify the program. Otherwise you will burn out get sick or just not do as well as you would have taking it a bit easier.

Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » December 16th, 2007, 9:35 pm

Bob and Nosmo, thanks for the welcome advice. I've been pondering it all day.

I guess the reason I began going below the lowest AT band was when I realized that using last year's IP charts (as Carla is doing) would cause me to have a lower target times than this year's IP site. There are no "charts" this year, only an interactive calculator. So, perhaps my slightly (ha) Type A personality said I should push to go lower so I wouldn't be taking it easier than I would be using last year's charts. I don't really abide by the HR thing b/c it isn't for me. I use HR for recovery intervals, warmups and cool downs, but when I row, I row for a pace. There are also no SPM comments or recommendations to this year's IP plan. So, I got those from last year's info (via Carla's posts, thanks Carla) as well. I'm not pinning my possibly ill advised decision to train harder than my own IP calculator would have me do on anyone but me. I own the decision and the fallout if it comes to that. So far, I have felt that although I work hard, I am recovered the next day and can proceed with the next part of my plan. I guess in truth I am also trying to push myself to train for a better 2K time than I thought was possible a few months ago. I realize it's a fine line between doing enough, pushing the limits, and going so far that you lose it all.

My TR range is 1:50-2:00. I can almost guarantee that I will not be able to go any lower than 1:50 for the TR work, and quite frankly I don't intend to try. My AN work is 1:47-1:50, and I hope to do them at 1:47. Of course all of this is contingent on my 2K test on December 24, which may change all of my ranges if I have done enough work to pull a little bit of time off of my 2K test time. I have no idea what to hope for there.

As for one workout affecting my ability to do the next one, that is something I haven't seen yet. So far I feel recovered the next day and ready to row again. I think Nosmo's point on this topic is especially good. I can't screw up tomorrow's plan by doing today's work wrong, or the domino effect will kick in and kill me.

That said, I had a very good workout today, but more about that later. Right now I need a glass of wine, something that I am certain is not a part of the IP plan, but too bad! B)

Carla, good luck with the 2K test tomorrow evening. May you be well rested, well hydrated, and in the mood to go for it!
Last edited by Rowmaniac on December 17th, 2007, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deborah - F 45 HWT

Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo » December 16th, 2007, 11:34 pm

Rowmaniac wrote: As for one workout affecting my ability to do the next one, that is something I haven't seen yet. So far I feel recovered the next day and ready to row again. I think Nosmo's point on this topic is especially good. I can't screw up tomorrow's plan by doing today's work wrong, or the domino effect will kick in and kill me.
The idea of not interfering with your next workout was something I read over 10 years ago in Velonews. There were two interviews, one with Greg Lemond and the other with Graham Obree (who set the bicycle hour record twice). They both made the same point about being recovered for the next workout. I've since seen the point made a number of times especially by cyclists. Cycling is a sport which requires a massive amount of time and where it is easy to be pushed too hard.

I'm of he opinion that training plans should be a guide not gospel. One should modify them if the circumstances require it. A good coach may have a plan for season before it starts, but will modify it depending on how the athletes respond. An individual should do the same.

seat5
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Post by seat5 » December 17th, 2007, 6:01 pm

OK so now I have deleted 2 absolutely brilliant posts and I am quite annoyed at whatever is causing my computer to delete whatever I write :evil: :evil: :evil:

2K test went fine, which means I was a nervous wreck beforehand, went off too fast from nerves, settled in to pace for the mid stretch, almost puked at 800 m to go, would have quit at 500 to go if my daughter wasn't standing there, and pulled my guts out the last 200 when she counted down for me, panicked when I was done and tried to pull my feet out before they were undone and gasped until I felt my esophagus had turned a violent purple, and now, 10 min later, wonder what the big deal was all about.

2K std erg, strapped, 7:32.8/28 9.46 mps
241 1:53.2/30
234 1:54.3/27
233 1:54.5/27
257 1:50.8/30

no lifting beforehand, of course! I tried the w/u Bob had posted a few weeks ago, I think from Mike Caviston. I sort of screwed that up but the basic idea was there and I think it was good, so I will likely use that again. (I should have assumed it would have been good considering the source but just had never tried it before.)

This is a tad slower than the first race I ever did last year in January, so I'm not too far off target, I don' think.

Deb, I am sorry about your dog! I hope he is better soon! And thanks Bob & Nosmo for your posts on rate/pace. I'm not trying to go faster than the paces given. I'm using last year's chart which used stroke rate and using the fastest pace give for each band along with the slowest stroke rate. That is what I did last year and it seemed like a good plan for me.
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1193870739.png[/img]

TomR
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Post by TomR » December 17th, 2007, 7:27 pm

Carla,

Impressive work on the 2k. Personally, I'm too craven to push myself like that in the final 500 of a mere trial. I can gauge my progress without inflicting that degree of punishment.

I'm off to do an AT session. I haven't rowed since I lifted last Weds: heavy squats and dead lifts which left me sore as hell.

Rowmaniac,

If Mr. Maniac is up there with Logan in your firmament, he must be quite a man. I'm a distanct fourth in popularity around here, well behind three dogs.

Rowmaniac
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Post by Rowmaniac » December 17th, 2007, 10:06 pm

Carla, excellent work on the 2K! That's almost 5 seconds off your time of Nov. 30. Wow! I especially loved your description of the process. I can totally relate. I'm already nervous about my test in one week, hoping that the work I've done will provide some extra speed. I would love to accomplish what you have in terms of shaving off some time, but that may be wishful thinking. Really nice job!

Yesterday was 3 x 7' AT. This was the first time I have had 3 intervals at AT.

Target 2:00

Actual:

156.0 1809 m /29spm

156.0 1810 m / 28 spm

156.2 1807m / 29 spm

w/u 4024
c/d 4626

Total meters 14, 076

I think I was pretty intimidated about holding even splits for 3 intervals, but thankfully 7 minutes goes by pretty quickly once you've been doing 10 minute intervals. I was encouraged when I finished the workout. The even splits gave me confidence that I'm definitely getting into better condition.

Today was supposed to be 3 x 10' UT1, but I was yearning for a longer row so I made a deal with myself. I could row one 30' UT1 but had to listen to what Bob and Nosmo said about sticking with the plan and hold the time to exactly what the fastest UT1 band was for my 2K and nothing faster. It felt pretty easy and relaxed.

w/u 3020 m

30' UT1

206.0 7142 m / 25 spm

c/d 4046m

Total meters 14,208

Tom, I have seen the green eyes of envy with my husband when he witnesses the sheer love I have for our dog. I keep telling him if he keeps up the good work, he might just rank over the dog one day. Okay, maybe not! Logan did get home late Saturday night from the hospital, and is doing much better. They never figured out what caused it, but 3 days and $2300 later, he was sure a welcome sight. He's not himself yet, but he did lie on his bed and fall asleep to my erging yesterday and today. He's no coxswain, but he is great to have around while I'm rowing.

Tomorrow's row should put me over the 200K for the HC. Woo hoo!
Deborah - F 45 HWT

Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo » December 18th, 2007, 12:56 am

Rowmaniac wrote: Tom, I have seen the green eyes of envy with my husband when he witnesses the sheer love I have for our dog. I keep telling him if he keeps up the good work, he might just rank over the dog one day. Okay, maybe not! Logan did get home late Saturday night from the hospital, and is doing much better. They never figured out what caused it, but 3 days and $2300 later, he was sure a welcome sight. He's not himself yet, but he did lie on his bed and fall asleep to my erging yesterday and today. He's no coxswain, but he is great to have around while I'm rowing.
When we got our dogs we swore they would not be our surrogate children and we made a rule that we had to say nicer things about each other then we did about the dogs.
Needless to say, we failed miserably.

"Dogs are better then Children. You don't have to go to PTA meetings, don't have to pay for college. They are always happy to see you. And if they get pregnant you can sell the children."

seat5
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Post by seat5 » December 19th, 2007, 12:36 am

Today was 5 x 10 UT1. Didn't feel like rowing in the morning since it was only about14 hours after the 2K test but by around 4:00 felt great and ready to go. I increased my squat weights to 95 lbs and was amazed to find it felt like nothing. Really mornings are just not the best time for me--just a few days ago 85 lbs felt like 100 tons--at 6 AM!

I was focusing on the stroke rate, the set of my back, and on putting the same load on each foot (still trying to get my dumb right leg to do its share of the work) and couldn't help going faster than 2:04.5/22. It felt very easy and relaxed and I should have just done it one go instead of 5 x 10 but I was cooking a pot roast and was having trouble getting the thing to simmer and not boil, so it was just as well I had the 2 minute breaks to dash off into the *** DELETE - SPAM *** and adjust the flame. It did sort of boil over and make a bit of a mess. Oh well, Martha Stuart I'm not!

12179 av 2:03.1/22 on slides
2414 2:04.2/22
2435 2:03.2/22
2447 2:02.5/22
2446 2:02.6/22
2437 2:03.1/22

I love rowing later like this--I have the luxury of it for a few weeks, but then I'm going to have to go back to 6 AM as I will have things going on in the evenings several times a week.

I wonder if I have to work so much harder and can't hit the paces in the morning, if it's actually as good a workout as doing it later and being able to hit the paces. I suppose if I did the HR routine that would answer that question. Maybe I can do it so that the TR and AN stuff happens on days I can row later and the UT1 and AT in the AM. hmmmm

Only 20,650m to make the HC...but who's counting?

Deb, do you have your test on Christmas eve?
Carla Stein--F 47 HWT

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1193870739.png[/img]

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