The Road To Boston 2008

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » December 10th, 2007, 2:07 pm

Rowmaniac wrote: Yes, the benefits of feet out rowing have been drilled into my head by my OTW coach, but it seems harder on my back to row feet out on the erg, so I don't like it. You are doing the better thing, no doubt anyone would agree. I wonder if I can get brave enough to go there even 1/2 time. Something to ponder.

Rowing feet out really requires you to have less layback then a lot of people are used to. If your used to rowing withothers, then either the style of rowing or being in sync may require a fair amount of layback.

If you are used to a fair amount of layback, what you may be doing is curving your back at the finish and bring your head forward to keep from falling backwards. Have your coach look at you or video tape your self rowing with and without strap and to see what the differences are. It really shouldn't be any harder on your back.

Rowing strapless does not necessarily improve your technique, for some people it does introduce problems. If your aware of what can go wrong, you should be able to avoid them.

None of this is to imply that you shouldn't pay attention to your core strength. That may be the problem not technique.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » December 10th, 2007, 6:12 pm

Today was a crap workout — a failed 1k time trial. On the positive side, there is less than 80k left to meet the HC 200k and I have passed 1 million m for the season and 6 million m for my recorded total.

Bob S.

TomR · Post by **TomR** » December 10th, 2007, 9:00 pm

60 min season's best

14342 mtr/2.05.5/169 hr (90+%)

faster than last week's so-so 10k at approx same HR. can't complain.

hey Bob,

sorry about that 1k. take a run at it tomorrow.

Jamie Pfeffer · Post by **Jamie Pfeffer** » December 10th, 2007, 9:04 pm

Congratulations, Tom. Keeping your heart rate at 90% for 60 minutes is really great.

Rowmaniac · Post by **Rowmaniac** » December 10th, 2007, 9:15 pm

Nosmo, thanks for the insight into the feet out thing. I do row with a fair amount of lay back OTW, and I think you may be right about what I'm trying to do not to fall off the erg. I will have myself videotaped and take a look. The obvious solution for me is to row strapped in, which I much prefer. Whether or not I will benefit with my OTW technique if I keep at it remains to be seen.

Bob, I totally sympathize with your frustrations today. I had my day yesterday. The goal was 2 x 10'AT. Target should be 2:00 (my AT band says 2:00-2:06), but I let it get into my head that last year's pace chart for my last 2K time (7:27) asks you to work a bit faster (easy to see from Carla's posts), so off I went.

w/u 4041m at a nice 22 spm

The first 10' piece went pretty well:

156.4 / 28 for 2577m

The second one was another story. 2 minutes into the interval, I went handle down, having a terrible fight with myself to keep going. I started hearing that anxious voice telling me that 2:00 was my target for AT, so why was I shooting for 1:56s and 1:57s--as if maybe doing these now would mean I can't get to the TR paces that are next-- and then someone phoned and for some reason the phone just rang and rang and rang and didn't go to voicemail. That was about when I said, "forget it. I don't want to keep going." and I let go. Boy was I mad at myself. I am not a quitter, but I was yesterday. It was like I was looking for some excuse to fail.

Well let's just say that doing 2 intervals was probably going to be hard, but having to start a 3rd one was worse. But I made myself do it. At first I rowed conservatively, saying "look, 2:00 is fine. follow the plan!" but kept going lower and lower until the end. I ended with:

158.3 / 2535 meters/27 spm.

I ended up rowing the last 5 minutes at a 1:55 average, and was having a hard time digesting the fact that I did have enough energy to do the piece at my original rate, but I had let myself get whacko and give up.

I did a 3K cool down and got off the erg, wondering what in the hell had happened.

I know there is a lesson in there somewhere. Maybe part of me is afraid I am not working hard enough if I follow the bands on this year's site. But when I do decide to go for a faster time, I need to row with enough courage to do the job. I have to pick a path and commit 100%.

It feels rather sad to think that your body is perhaps much stronger than your mind. I am not displeased with 156.4 and 158.3 for the two pieces. I am disappointed in how I did them.

Today I was off the erg and OTW. I didn't row, but I cox'd an 8. No workout there, but always good fun to see how easy it is to fit 72-1/2 inches of body into that little coxswain seat. The water was beautiful and there was no need for a jacket. Life isn't so bad, and tomorrow I have another shot at that 2 x 10' AT. I'm going to need a few deep breaths to start going, I know.

Bob, I hope you can, for today, take a look at what you called a failure and realize you are an exceptional athlete--and every one of you has an off day. Go get 'em tomorrow. I'll be pulling for you. (Well, not literally since you would not want to take the chance that I'd drop your handle, too!!!

)

seat5 · Post by **seat5** » December 11th, 2007, 12:12 am

Hey Tom, nice 60 min. Your lungs must have that freshly scrubbed feeling inside.

Tough luck, Bob, I really hate when that happens. But you are coming along great on the HC. I think I am just over half way and hope to manage it this year. Last year around this time I lost 3 weeks of training due to illness. That was a bummer!

Deb: First of all, good for you for making yourself do that darned interval over and finish it! That is very hard to do, as once you've quit on a workout, it's all but impossible to make yourself obey.

The "faster paces" from last year have more to do with the fact that I use the chart "wrong". I use the fastest pace listed for each band as though it were the target, not the range actually given. Same with the spm; AT is supposed to be 26--28 but I do it at 26--exactly, with the metrenome. For me the goal with the training pieces is to do each one as perfectly on pace and rate as possible while maintaining good form so as not to hurt my back. At a race--I just watch the pace and don't worry about the spm.

If you have been around the forum much you will have seen posts by Paul Smith, who is a rowing coach. He recommends always training at 10 meters per stroke. You can use this calculator http://www.machars.net/ to figure out how you are doing with the mps. Your AT workouts at 1:56.4/28 and 1:58.3/27 come out to 9.2 and 9.39 mps.

For the first time tonight I managed my AT workout at the pace I intended to, because my clock did not go off and I woke up this morning at 7:45 instead of 6:00. So I had to train after work. What a difference! I knew it was feeling hard to work out so early but hadn't realized how much more umph I have around 7 PM. Anyway, I had 2 x 8 AT, 5K w/u, squats, situps, pushups, and then did them (hooray!) at 1:57.7/26 and 1:57.6/26. It was hard work. They come out to 9.8 and 9.81 mps. Still short of 10--but a lot better than previous workouts.

I also just realized that last year I did all my UT1, UT2, and AT workouts on slides, but this year I've been doing the UT1 & UT2 on slides but AT on standard erg. I plan to keep doing it that way as it's clear my back can take it, though on the longer stuff I'll use the slides as usual.

Rowmaniac · Post by **Rowmaniac** » December 11th, 2007, 1:05 am

Nice job, Carla. Just a thought--don't underestimate the benefit of the extra 12 hours of rest between a.m. and p.m. for this workout or the 3 -1/2 days of rest since your Friday a.m. row. (Unless I missed an extra one you did since Friday morning.) I never cease to be amazed at how much stronger my body feels with even a tiny break. Knowing you, however, you were still lifting or biking or something.

Thursday of this week is my last OTW workout until about January 10. I am looking fwd to being able to better space out my efforts for these AT and TR (coming up) workouts.

I don't think I'd be at my best at 6am, either. In fact, I'm sure I would not.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » December 11th, 2007, 2:02 am

Rowmaniac wrote:
Today I was off the erg and OTW. I didn't row, but I cox'd an 8. No workout there, but always good fun to see how easy it is to fit 72-1/2 inches of body into that little coxswain seat.

That reminds me of the time when a women's 8 in my old club went out with one of their largest members as cox. She was well over 6', but her height was not really a problem. In fact, it was an advantage, since she could see well over the heads of the rowers. But she was also quite broad abeam and that cox seat was an incredibly tight fit. Her crew mates were teasing her about how she would be stuck, head down the water, if the boat flipped.

Bob S.

seat5 · Post by **seat5** » December 11th, 2007, 9:22 am

Today was supposed to be 3 x 15' UT1 targ 2:04.5/22. Back on the morning schedule again so it was about 12 hrs since the last workout. Re: doing well last night having to do with the weekend--I don't think that 's as much a factor as the hour of the day because none of my Monday-after-a-weekend -rest workouts hit the AT targets this year before that one.

Anyway I saw no point to breaking up the UT1 in 3 pcs so did the whole 45 min at one go.
10938 2:03.4/22 11 mps (it's easier to get 10+mps at low stroke rates of course)

2167 2:04.5/22
2180 2:03.8/22
2183 2:03.6/22
2197 2:02.8/22
2211 2:02.1/22

The only time I've ever coxed I didn't know how to steer and ran the men's varsity 8 right into the shore at right angles. There were icebergs in the water and they all had to get out of the boat up to their waists....I was never asked to cox again

Rowmaniac · Post by **Rowmaniac** » December 11th, 2007, 10:57 am

Bob, the visual I got of an inverted shell with my legs sticking up out of the water upon capsize is enough to make me rethink volunteering as a coxswain again! I much prefer when we row the larger 8 which is equipped with men's shoes (mine are size 13

) and is a little bit wider abeam, but yesterday's row was 8 women none of whom were over 5'6". So I actually tried to say, "ugh, if you women want me to cox, you need to take out the REAL boat and I'll do it, but who thinks I can fit in that small seat?" 8 hands went up and I lost. The truth is that the fit is somewhat snug, but now I am going to have to make sure we never go in b/c I have something new to worry about!

Carla, I am sure it was an accident, but what a great strategy to avoid life as even an infrequent coxswain. I'm sure the icebergs were a nice touch...

You know your body better than anyone, and it may well be that you are just better adjusted to exert yourself more efficiently in the evenings. Nice work on the morning row. Again, my hat's off to you for cranking out another one only 12 hours since the last one, and then heading out the door. Do you drink any coffee before you row in the a.m.? I find coffee is worth a few tenths off my splits. Oh, and there is the fact that I can't live without it.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » December 11th, 2007, 2:49 pm

Rowmaniac wrote:Bob, the visual I got of an inverted shell with my legs sticking up out of the water upon capsize is enough to make me rethink volunteering as a coxswain again!

Deborah,

Actually, I have never heard of an 8 flipping. There are plenty of oars out there to keep it stabilized. Singles, for sure. There aren't many who have spent much time in singles that haven't had at least one capsize. I have certainly had my share. The pair oar is another tricky one. A partner and I in a pair hit a buoy head on. We started to roll, and although it seemed to take an eternity, none of our maneuvers did anything to stop it. (I was bow, so it was my fault.) In a double sculls or a sweep 4, it is much less likely. I haven't heard of any. With 8 oars out in a quad or 8, it would take some mighty rough water or a hugh wake to cause a capsize. Swamping as a result of rough seas, yes. I have been in that situation.

Did you say that you rowed at MRC (in Greenbrae)? A friend of mine was a cox there years ago and he claimed that they once lost a single sculler, whose drowned body was found hanging suspended from his strapped in feet. Knowing him, I am inclined to think that he was putting me on. In the 4 or 5 times that I have flipped, I had no problem getting my feet free. The main hazard of capsizing is hypothermia.

Bob S.

Ben Rea · Post by **Ben Rea** » December 11th, 2007, 3:03 pm

I'm so pumped for CHRASH-B this year!

if i keep gaining weight like i am and erging and lifting like i am then i think i could end up doing great!

i was 152lbs last time i rowed a 2k now im 159lbs and gaining! 6'3" too

going to start traing with the team this sat., 5+ of us are going this year!

last 2K was 1:55.0 (was not at full race pase but still PR'd

1 month and a half ago (begining of my winter training)
CRASH-B 2k- HOPEFULLY 1:50 !!!

Rowmaniac · Post by **Rowmaniac** » December 11th, 2007, 7:28 pm

Hi, Bob. Yes, I row with Marin Rowing Assn. (MRA) in Greenbrae. Funny you should mention the drowning. (I don't mean it's funny, but the timing is interesting.) I was on the dock with my sculling coach a few weeks ago, and she was reiterating the need to "absolutely get back into your single, row back to the dock, put the boat away and do NOT go out again that day if you capsize. Period." Her reasoning was that a) you might be hurt but not realize it until later and b) you need to get out of the wet clothes even if you think it's a perfectly warm and beautiful day. She then told me about the drowning. I believe your friend the cox was at least partly correct. I have no idea how they found the body, but a single sculler did capsize and get back into his boat. He then continued to row out in the bay, and apparently he had some hypothermia and wasn't thinking clearly (or moving well.) I don't know if he'd also sustained injuries, but for whatever reason(s), he did not make it back to the dock and he did drown. Sad story.

On a lighter note, thanks for telling me how hard you think it would be for an 8 to flip. I don't ever worry about it while I'm rowing in a 4 or an 8, but in the single, well, that's a whole other story. All it takes is one sloppy stroke to make me come alive with renewed fear that the next time might be the one to take me in. Let's just say I am really, really working on rowing more aggressively. Otherwise, I'm never going to move that boat enough for anyone to care. (Myself included.)

To the new poster Ben: if you put down your mailing address, I have about 15 pounds I would love to send you. I sure as heck don't need them and you seem quite keen on getting a few. Lucky you! Enjoy it while you are 17, believe me. Time will take care of your concerns.

Kinley · Post by **Kinley** » December 11th, 2007, 8:45 pm

Carla --- Your coxing resume sounds a lot like mine! Except that I was asked to cox a novice 8, and the coach introduced me to the crew with a little speech along the lines of "This is Kinley, she's a VARSITY rower, and boy does she ever know what she's doing ....."

No one told me that you had to pull on the cable opposite the direction you want the boat to go, and not being mechanically inclined, I wasn't bright enough to figure it out myself. So we spent the entire practice zig-zagging from one shelf-icey shore to the other and back again. Very humbling.

On the subject of 8s, it's worth noting that though they don't flip, they can swamp. UNH lost (by which I mean they drowned) a couple of oarsmen this way back in the 80s.

seat5 · Post by **seat5** » December 12th, 2007, 1:01 am

Kinley wrote:Carla --- Your coxing resume sounds a lot like mine! Except that I was asked to cox a novice 8, and the coach introduced me to the crew with a little speech along the lines of "This is Kinley, she's a VARSITY rower, and boy does she ever know what she's doing ....."

No one told me that you had to pull on the cable opposite the direction you want the boat to go, and not being mechanically inclined, I wasn't bright enough to figure it out myself. So we spent the entire practice zig-zagging from one shelf-icey shore to the other and back again. Very humbling.

On the subject of 8s, it's worth noting that though they don't flip, they can swamp. UNH lost (by which I mean they drowned) a couple of oarsmen this way back in the 80s.

I didn't even know you were supposed to pull on the cables when I first got in the boat--so we did the zig zag also... And I have to say, being 17 and forced to watch 8 sets of perfectly gorgeous shoulders moving in unison were mesmerizing enough that I was completely addled anyway! We had to go through some bridges as I recall and that was a tad scarey....thank goodness it was not a race--it was a sort of slalom course...

Are you going to NE2K this year? ooo that's coming up on us...