Serious Weight Loss Goals?

[old] izrbluer · Post by **[old] izrbluer** » June 10th, 2005, 5:17 am

I'm glad that you posted this. Now I'm wondering how everyone is geting low times?? I really was hoping that changing the DF would be the trick. Kris <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(copywriter @ Jun 9 2005, 05:43 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The only difference is that at DF 2 I had to row at 26 strokes per minute to hit the split, whereas at DF10 I did it at 22 spm. </td></tr></table>

[old] NurseBobbi · Post by **[old] NurseBobbi** » June 10th, 2005, 10:06 am

[quote=izrbluer,Jun 10 2005, 05:17 AM] I'm glad that you posted this. Now I'm wondering how everyone is geting low times?? I really was hoping that changing the DF would be the trick. Kris I definitely get better times with lower drag factor. That's why I tend to do best on the Model C at my gym rather than my Model B at home. Other factors are involved, of course--how I'm feeling that day and improvements brought on by practice and better conditioning--but the Model C definitely feels easier. More important than better times, though, is the fact that I can row as long and not get as sore. Today is my weights and measures day. Since last week, I was started on Relafen, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, for my arthritis. Among its side effects are possible fluid retention and weight gain. I can tell that I have a bit more peripheral edema (puffy fingers) lately. It could be the relafen or it could be the awful heat and humidity we've had. Anyway, I managed to lose a half a pound anyway and my measurements continue to decrease slowly. My resting heart rate is coming down, too. It was 78 today, down from 81 last week and 90 two weeks ago. Best of all, my blood pressure is better today than it has been in months. My systolic (the top number) is 138, down from the upper 140s.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » June 10th, 2005, 11:26 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(copywriter @ Jun 9 2005, 04:43 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>A bit more on drag factors - empirical stuff. Last night I did my usual warm up, 1500 metres, with the slider on 10. Did another 1500 tonight with the slider on 2, & rowed to match last night's split All the numbers - distance, watts, calories, even heart rate, came out the same. The only difference is that at DF 2 I had to row at 26 strokes per minute to hit the split, whereas at DF10 I did it at 22 spm. </td></tr></table> You did it wrong. You are missing the point of working at a lower DF. Rowing a split at 22spm and rowing it at 26spm IS NOT THE SAME. The extra work comes in when you try to match the time you were pulling at DF 10/22spm at DF2/22spm. It's a world of difference. That's where the fitness and pulling power kicks in. Try it again, but keep the rating THE SAME, and aim for the splits you were pulling at DF 10 and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. You are going to be working much harder at DF2 - and then when you get accustomed to DF 2 - go back up to DF 10 for fun and you'll see what happens. (here's a hint: your stroking power is going to have a lot more juice!! ) post back and let us know how it goes.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » June 10th, 2005, 11:33 am

Determining DF: turn on the computer and before taking a stroke hit REST and OK at the same time. You'll see in the lower right hand corner of the readout a little "DRAG" icon is going to appear. Start pulling and you'll see a number appear under the DRAG icon - it can be anywhere from 80-220 (i think) depending on where the lever is at. Tweak the lever on the flywheel until you get to the desired DF. If you erg in a public, gym setting please note that you have to do this before every erg because ALL ERGS ARE NOT THE SAME. Some are cleaner , some are dirtier, so they'll have a different FEEL. Calibrating your erg in this manner insures that you will have consistent workouts and data - and your splits will not be artificially inflated or deflated due to issues outside of your own effort. (for example, a newer erg vs. an older erg.. rusty chain, etc. ) I personally race 2k/6k at DF = 130 and do the bulk (95%) of my training at DF=100-115 Hope this helps. DF 10 and DF 2 are technically meaningless terms. Use the proper DF numbers and it's easier to gauge your performance.

[old] NurseBobbi · Post by **[old] NurseBobbi** » June 10th, 2005, 12:44 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jun 10 2005, 11:33 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Determining DF: turn on the computer and before taking a stroke hit REST and OK at the same time. You'll see in the lower right hand corner of the readout a little "DRAG" icon is going to appear. Start pulling and you'll see a number appear under the DRAG icon - it can be anywhere from 80-220 (i think) depending on where the lever is at. Tweak the lever on the flywheel until you get to the desired DF. If you erg in a public, gym setting please note that you have to do this before every erg because ALL ERGS ARE NOT THE SAME. Some are cleaner , some are dirtier, so they'll have a different FEEL. Calibrating your erg in this manner insures that you will have consistent workouts and data - and your splits will not be artificially inflated or deflated due to issues outside of your own effort. (for example, a newer erg vs. an older erg.. rusty chain, etc. ) I personally race 2k/6k at DF = 130 and do the bulk (95%) of my training at DF=100-115 Hope this helps. DF 10 and DF 2 are technically meaningless terms. Use the proper DF numbers and it's easier to gauge your performance. </td></tr></table> Hi, Diesel, Thanks for all of the helpful info on Drag Factor. I believe the method that you describe for viewing it is for the PM2. If you have a PM3, you can view it by going to Main Menu --> More Options --> Display Drag Factor. There's some good information on DF on the C2 website at the following page: <a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/reference/drag_factor.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/reference/dr ...

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » June 10th, 2005, 1:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(NurseBobbi @ Jun 10 2005, 11:44 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jun 10 2005, 11:33 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Determining DF: turn on the computer and before taking a stroke hit REST and OK at the same time. You'll see in the lower right hand corner of the readout a little "DRAG" icon is going to appear. Start pulling and you'll see a number appear under the DRAG icon - it can be anywhere from 80-220 (i think) depending on where the lever is at. Tweak the lever on the flywheel until you get to the desired DF. If you erg in a public, gym setting please note that you have to do this before every erg because ALL ERGS ARE NOT THE SAME. Some are cleaner , some are dirtier, so they'll have a different FEEL. Calibrating your erg in this manner insures that you will have consistent workouts and data - and your splits will not be artificially inflated or deflated due to issues outside of your own effort. (for example, a newer erg vs. an older erg.. rusty chain, etc. ) I personally race 2k/6k at DF = 130 and do the bulk (95%) of my training at DF=100-115 Hope this helps. DF 10 and DF 2 are technically meaningless terms. Use the proper DF numbers and it's easier to gauge your performance. </td></tr></table> Hi, Diesel, Thanks for all of the helpful info on Drag Factor. I believe the method that you describe for viewing it is for the PM2. If you have a PM3, you can view it by going to Main Menu --> More Options --> Display Drag Factor. There's some good information on DF on the C2 website at the following page: <a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/reference/drag_factor.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/reference/dr ... </a> </td></tr></table> OOPS! Yeah, my bad, my instructions refer to the PM2 - the gym I erg at has a couple of "C"s.

[old] NurseBobbi · Post by **[old] NurseBobbi** » June 10th, 2005, 2:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jun 10 2005, 01:05 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>OOPS! Yeah, my bad, my instructions refer to the PM2 - the gym I erg at has a couple of "C"s. </td></tr></table> The Model C at my gym has a PM2. I'll have to check its DF. It's definitely lower than my Model B, which I added a PM3 to. I just checked my DF on it, and 184 is as low as I can get. (You get the least resistance on a Model B if you keep the flywheel dampers closed and use the larger of the two sprockets.)

[old] artmom5 · Post by **[old] artmom5** » June 10th, 2005, 2:52 pm

[quote=NurseBobbi,Jun 10 2005, 10:06 AM] [quote=izrbluer,Jun 10 2005, 05:17 AM] I'm glad that you posted this. Now I'm wondering how everyone is geting low times?? I really was hoping that changing the DF would be the trick. Kris I definitely get better times with lower drag factor. That's why I tend to do best on the Model C at my gym rather than my Model B at home. Other factors are involved, of course--how I'm feeling that day and improvements brought on by practice and better conditioning--but the Model C definitely feels easier. More important than better times, though, is the fact that I can row as long and not get as sore. Today is my weights and measures day. Since last week, I was started on Relafen, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, for my arthritis. Among its side effects are possible fluid retention and weight gain. I can tell that I have a bit more peripheral edema (puffy fingers) lately. It could be the relafen or it could be the awful heat and humidity we've had. Anyway, I managed to lose a half a pound anyway and my measurements continue to decrease slowly. My resting heart rate is coming down, too. It was 78 today, down from 81 last week and 90 two weeks ago. Best of all, my blood pressure is better today than it has been in months. My systolic (the top number) is 138, down from the upper 140s. [/quote] Best of Luck, Remember it is not the number on the scale, it is how you feel! I'm glad you are looking at the good numbers, resting heartrate and blood pressure, those are what counts! Good Luck and think how better you'll feel overall with the relefen, which hopefully will translate into longer work outs! (I keep a relaxed grip on my row and have added rowing with good weightlifting gloves which have helped.) Mary Tinley Park, IL

[old] artmom5 · Post by **[old] artmom5** » June 10th, 2005, 5:49 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jun 10 2005, 01:05 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(NurseBobbi @ Jun 10 2005, 11:44 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jun 10 2005, 11:33 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Determining DF: turn on the computer and before taking a stroke hit REST and OK at the same time. You'll see in the lower right hand corner of the readout a little "DRAG" icon is going to appear. Start pulling and you'll see a number appear under the DRAG icon - it can be anywhere from 80-220 (i think) depending on where the lever is at. Tweak the lever on the flywheel until you get to the desired DF. If you erg in a public, gym setting please note that you have to do this before every erg because ALL ERGS ARE NOT THE SAME. Some are cleaner , some are dirtier, so they'll have a different FEEL. Calibrating your erg in this manner insures that you will have consistent workouts and data - and your splits will not be artificially inflated or deflated due to issues outside of your own effort. (for example, a newer erg vs. an older erg.. rusty chain, etc. ) I personally race 2k/6k at DF = 130 and do the bulk (95%) of my training at DF=100-115 Hope this helps. DF 10 and DF 2 are technically meaningless terms. Use the proper DF numbers and it's easier to gauge your performance. </td></tr></table> Hi, Diesel, Thanks for all of the helpful info on Drag Factor. I believe the method that you describe for viewing it is for the PM2. If you have a PM3, you can view it by going to Main Menu --> More Options --> Display Drag Factor. There's some good information on DF on the C2 website at the following page: <a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/reference/drag_factor.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/reference/dr ... </a> </td></tr></table> OOPS! Yeah, my bad, my instructions refer to the PM2 - the gym I erg at has a couple of "C"s. </td></tr></table> Diesel I'm just learning more and more without even rowing a stroke. I like the drag info. I wondered why some machines I have to fight with while others I seem to glide. Very Interesting. Am looking forward to checking that out at the gym next time I go! Thanks Mary

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » June 10th, 2005, 6:27 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(artmom5 @ Jun 10 2005, 04:49 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Diesel I'm just learning more and more without even rowing a stroke. I like the drag info. I wondered why some machines I have to fight with while others I seem to glide. Very Interesting. Am looking forward to checking that out at the gym next time I go! Thanks Mary </td></tr></table> Hey, good to hear! That's why we're here - to learn from each other. I tend to think our stroke is much more fluid and efficient at the lower DF - at the higher DF you have to fight the machine too much, which is totally opposite the point of rowing - which is balance, efficiency, and a well timed application of FLUID power - not a herky-jerky WHAP at the catch! On to the next topic: have you guys tried strapless rowing yet ? Oh boy!

[old] artmom5 · Post by **[old] artmom5** » June 10th, 2005, 6:59 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jun 10 2005, 06:27 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(artmom5 @ Jun 10 2005, 04:49 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Diesel I'm just learning more and more without even rowing a stroke. I like the drag info. I wondered why some machines I have to fight with while others I seem to glide. Very Interesting. Am looking forward to checking that out at the gym next time I go! Thanks Mary </td></tr></table> Hey, good to hear! That's why we're here - to learn from each other. I tend to think our stroke is much more fluid and efficient at the lower DF - at the higher DF you have to fight the machine too much, which is totally opposite the point of rowing - which is balance, efficiency, and a well timed application of FLUID power - not a herky-jerky WHAP at the catch! On to the next topic: have you guys tried strapless rowing yet ? Oh boy! </td></tr></table> I'm afraid to ask? Mary

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » June 10th, 2005, 7:07 pm

[quote=artmom5,Jun 10 2005, 05:59 PM] [quote=DIESEL,Jun 10 2005, 06:27 PM][quote=artmom5,Jun 10 2005, 04:49 PM] On to the next topic: have you guys tried strapless rowing yet ? Oh boy! [/quote] I'm afraid to ask? Mary [/quote] (grinning evilly as I type this... ) Well, just as it says, keep your feet outside the straps - just don't fly off the back of the machine! Learn to do it, and you'll never have problems with your layback at the finish ever again - also it really helps to emphasize the legs in the stroke. It will give you hamstrings of steel. All around good stuff. Just strap in when you race, or when you are doing high rating pieces (30spm +) There are some really good threads on this topic.. Just run a search. D

[old] Hal Morgan · Post by **[old] Hal Morgan** » June 11th, 2005, 1:01 am

I injured a knee, walking, really. I went up to 206. I was strong at 195 but the three months pre-op and one month post-op changes that to good old couch spud butt. I began erging by accident. I tried all the fitness machines for five minutes each and every day. Treadmill, elliptical thingy, stair steps, bikes and the rowing gadget. I liked to row it took me some place pleasant enough and then I gave it heck one day. Good golly I thought I was going to pass out took two days for my lungs to recover. I thought that was a rush. The next second i thought do more and could not wait to try again. pain junkie. so my fat gut was in the way. I began eating a bowl of fresh soup at lunch. no food after 7. I increased the old time up to 5-10k almost every day. And the weight came down to 177. I have not ever in my healthy life weighed less than 180. How in the world am I going to loose the pounds and get to 165, it seems so elusive. I have rowed 605 k since Jan 2005. I have been rowing huge lengths every other day for the past month or so and the last ten pounds is not burning. I keep telling myself the fist ten pounds took two months then the weight dropped tick tick one pound a week. I hope that with my goal to row 45000 meters on my 45th birthday that I will have shocked my system into burring the ten pounds.

[old] SpaCityBulldog · Post by **[old] SpaCityBulldog** » June 11th, 2005, 9:25 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(hal muchler @ Jun 11 2005, 12:01 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I have been rowing huge lengths every other day for the past month or so and the last ten pounds is not burning. I keep telling myself the fist ten pounds took two months then the weight dropped tick tick one pound a week. </td></tr></table> Hi Hal. Just a thought but you might want to get your percent body fat measured. You may not have those 10 pounds to lose. A quick Google search kicked this <a href='http://www.nutribase.com/fwchartm.shtml' target='_blank'> weight/fat chart</a> up and the body fat chart is at the bottom. Feel free to join our weight loss team. We're Row Pain, Row Gain and there is a great group of people pullng on the chain.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » June 11th, 2005, 3:55 pm

No offense SpaCity - but those were the bunk height/weight charts I was referring to earlier. 6'3 at 197 is "larged framed"? they must be joking. That is skeletal. Forget scale weight. Go by body fat %. And the mirror - it never lies. If you're fat, you're fat. Period. You then know what you have to do to remedy that situation. Hal, given the diet and training sequence you posted - I doubt you are so lean that you don't have 10 pounds to lose. Tweak your diet, (cut your carbs a bit and up your protein) and on the days you don't row throw in some sessions in the weight room. That new muscle you put on will eat that extra fat that is being so stubborn. Another ? - why the obsession with 165? Do you want to be a lightweight rower? or is it just some arbitrary number you came up with? Just workout hard (lifting and rowing) and eat right - your body weight will take care of itself. The goal is to get LEAN - i.e. you look good when you stand shirtless in front of the mirror - to get to that state you have to be fit and strong - the training and diet get you there, and it's a nice journey, BTW - the visual (a nice physique) is the icing on the cake. good luck, D

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