First time on the water!

[icomefrombirmingham]

Well, last night was my first time OTW.
That was quite an experience! I have been a regular on an erg for 2 1/2 months and have had two sessions in a tank, which has all been very useful. However, nothing can compare to the feel of being in a boat, even one "powered" by seven novices, an experienced stroke and an experienced cox.
"Setting-up" the boat was a whole new challenge....and trying to row in an unsteady boat was quite...ummmm.....frustrating.
Still after about 90 minutes we did have her going pretty nicely for a spell........about 8 seconds I think it was.
But like the one beautiful swing in 18 holes of golf, that 8 seconds was enough to make me go back tonight for more.
(Hopefully, the rower from hell won't be two seats behind me tonight!)
Brent

[PaulS]

Now, now... you are all in the same boat...

Anyway, one of you may switch sides and TRFH will be right behind you.

Sticking it out through the weeding process will do away with a lot of frustration. Hang in there, focus on improving as quickly as you can, following the coaches and cox's instructions without exaggeration, and you will have a good time.

[icomefrombirmingham]

Now, now... you are all in the same boat...

Anyway, one of you may switch sides and TRFH will be right behind you.

Sticking it out through the weeding process will do away with a lot of frustration. Hang in there, focus on improving as quickly as you can, following the coaches and cox's instructions without exaggeration, and you will have a good time.

Hi Paul,
Yes we are all in it together....though thankfully we will not be in the same boat when we start to race. Last night and tonight are just for the complete novices and we do not necessarily row in our teams.
I know it is uncharitable...and this IS only a rec league....however, this lady catches crabs on the drive and the recovery....she was the same in the tank..... ....however, she will no doubt catch up (no pun intended) with the rest of us water thrashers very soon.

And talking about the weeding process....I did a fair amount of weeding last night....my blade was covered in them on more than one occasion!
Perhaps I should concentrate on my own technique and forget TRFH???
Brent

[Ray79]

Perhaps I should concentrate on my own technique and forget TRFH???
Brent

Hi Brent.

This is probably the best thing you can do. Although Rowing is a crew sport, there is little you can do to affect what anyone else is doing. Just concentrate in your section of the boat and make sure that you are doing everything right. If you do that, you have done all you can do. When everyone does this, and then when it is all the same, that is when you get good run, for what feels for free.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it though. I would be interested to know. Do you feel like the OTW rowing is having an effect on your erging - either in technique terms or whatever? Things like catch speed and leg drive speed, fast hands and recovery control can be trained really well rowing in boats, but I suppose it may be a bit early days to see much change.

All the best

Raymond

[icomefrombirmingham]

Perhaps I should concentrate on my own technique and forget TRFH???
Brent

Hi Brent.

This is probably the best thing you can do. Although Rowing is a crew sport, there is little you can do to affect what anyone else is doing. Just concentrate in your section of the boat and make sure that you are doing everything right. If you do that, you have done all you can do. When everyone does this, and then when it is all the same, that is when you get good run, for what feels for free.

Glad to hear you are enjoying it though. I would be interested to know. Do you feel like the OTW rowing is having an effect on your erging - either in technique terms or whatever? Things like catch speed and leg drive speed, fast hands and recovery control can be trained really well rowing in boats, but I suppose it may be a bit early days to see much change.

All the best

Raymond

Hi Raymond,
Yes it's too early to tell whether OTW is/will have an effect on erging.
We were out again last night for another novice practice. Both nights were for people completely new to OTW rowing (with one or two experienced rowers in each boat) and the "crews" were assigned randomly on both nights. So we havn't rowed in our league teams, nor with our team coach yet.....that's starts Sunday morning 8 am....and I can't wait!

So far, I am surprised by the differences between erging, tank practice and OTW. And that even though I think I have done as much as I could in the time to get prepared (books, videos asking question here and elsewhere).
For example, the idea of, and the requirements for, keeping the boat "set up" had never occured to me on an erg or in the tank. And judging the depth of my blade and getting it quickly out of the water was a whole lot more difficult when the boat was not set up properly.
I hadn't given catch speed, fast hands or recovery control a moment's thought while I was purely an ergoist. Now those things are a regular part of my day-dreams!!!
Still, it's all fascinating and great fun....even though it's going to take a while before it becomes serene!!

Oh...and the other thing.....last night, there were boats getting out on the water before us.....and at one stage there was another novice boat coming up behind us on the course.....didn't like that at all.....but remember it's only rec league

Brent

[Rockin Roland]

Brent,
Yes,...... erging, tank rowing and OTW are all considered as rowing however the degree of difficulty increases from one to the other when you add more water.

The erg is only a piece of stationary exercise equipment so you really can't expect it to do much by way of preparing you technically for OTW. The tank is far better for technical preparation for OTW but again it is still stationary. It misses many critical aspects of OTW rowing such as a feel for boat balance and run, when to take the catch in relation to boat run, sending the boat away and achieving a clean finish in motion.

At times you'll get so frustrated with problems in the boat that you feel glad to be back on solid ground with the erg......that is until it finally clicks......and then you'll never look back at the erg in the same way again.

[Bob S.]

Brent,
Yes,...... erging, tank rowing and OTW are all considered as rowing however the degree of difficulty increases from one to the other when you add more water.

RR,

Does the "Location: Moving Flywheel" in your avatar mean that you have gone over to RowPerfect? Just curious.

Bob S.

[icomefrombirmingham]

Brent,
Yes,...... erging, tank rowing and OTW are all considered as rowing however the degree of difficulty increases from one to the other when you add more water.

The erg is only a piece of stationary exercise equipment so you really can't expect it to do much by way of preparing you technically for OTW. The tank is far better for technical preparation for OTW but again it is still stationary. It misses many critical aspects of OTW rowing such as a feel for boat balance and run, when to take the catch in relation to boat run, sending the boat away and achieving a clean finish in motion.

At times you'll get so frustrated with problems in the boat that you feel glad to be back on solid ground with the erg......that is until it finally clicks......and then you'll never look back at the erg in the same way again.

Yes...a "feel for boat balance and run" is not yet within my grasp. However, I can begin to imagine what you are describing and it sounds great. I wonder if we will acheive this level, or anything close, this year with a boat crewed with two people who have rowed before and the rest novices? I can always hope.
Brent

[Bob S.]

Yes...a "feel for boat balance and run" is not yet within my grasp. However, I can begin to imagine what you are describing and it sounds great. I wonder if we will acheive this level, or anything close, this year with a boat crewed with two people who have rowed before and the rest novices? I can always hope.
Brent

The real feel for boat balance comes when you take one good hard stoke in a single, recover about half way, and just hold your position with the blades just clearing the water and let the boat run. An elite sculler can let the boat glide this way until it almost comes to a stop even in water that is not all that smooth. The rest of us are lucky to coast for more that 30 seconds before having a blade touch — even on the flattest of water surfaces. The ultimate in boat balance that I have heard was a report of someone who could do a head stand on the seat of a free-floating shell. I have not seen him do it, but I have seen his regular boat handling and it is outstanding.

Have you had "pause drills" yet? That is the term for the position holding that I described above and is often done in eights. Perhaps fours, quads, pair-oars and doubles as well, but I have seen it only in eights. However, it was never done as a one stroke thing. As I remember it was something like several regular strokes, then a pause, called by the coxswain (in an eight), with the pauses repeated every so many strokes. Also the pauses were mercifully short — just a few seconds.

Bob S.

[icomefrombirmingham]

Yes...a "feel for boat balance and run" is not yet within my grasp. However, I can begin to imagine what you are describing and it sounds great. I wonder if we will acheive this level, or anything close, this year with a boat crewed with two people who have rowed before and the rest novices? I can always hope.
Brent

The real feel for boat balance comes when you take one good hard stoke in a single, recover about half way, and just hold your position with the blades just clearing the water and let the boat run. An elite sculler can let the boat glide this way until it almost comes to a stop even in water that is not all that smooth. The rest of us are lucky to coast for more that 30 seconds before having a blade touch — even on the flattest of water surfaces. The ultimate in boat balance that I have heard was a report of someone who could do a head stand on the seat of a free-floating shell. I have not seen him do it, but I have seen his regular boat handling and it is outstanding.

Have you had "pause drills" yet? That is the term for the position holding that I described above and is often done in eights. Perhaps fours, quads, pair-oars and doubles as well, but I have seen it only in eights. However, it was never done as a one stroke thing. As I remember it was something like several regular strokes, then a pause, called by the coxswain (in an eight), with the pauses repeated every so many strokes. Also the pauses were mercifully short — just a few seconds.

Bob S.

Nope, no pause drills yet. We are still at the stage of rowing mostly in pairs and fours! We occasionaly have all eight rowing.
What you are describing in single skulls sounds fantastic. When I lose another 40 lbs (approximately year's end) I will look for a vacancy in a Masters boat that is open to teaching a beginner who is willing to pull hard and learn. I'd like to try any of the two man or four man boats (sweep or skull) and if that doesn't work out I'll have to think about my own shell.
Brent

[Bob S.]

Nope, no pause drills yet. We are still at the stage of rowing mostly in pairs and fours!
Brent

Pairs, already! That is impressive to me. The pair-oar is the toughest boat of all to master. Unlike a double, which is a fairly stable boat, the pair-oar is very demanding. If the rowers are not quite well matched it can be chaotic. Turns are especially tricky. I have spent a great deal of time in eights and have had a fair amount of experience in 4+, 4-, 4x, 2x, and 1x, but very little in the 2- and none in a 2+, which is rarely seen. I felt that I was fortunate to have a friend, who was experienced in all the boat classes, that invited me out for a few rows in a pair to get the feel of it. Unfortunately, I was rowing bow and was thus responsible for the steering. I managed to have us ram a heavy buoy dead on, coming to a full stop and, of course, inevitably flipping. At the time, he was about 60, 6'4", and well over 200 pounds. I was about 74, 6'1", and about 170 pounds, so we were not a good match, be he was able to adjust his stroke to my weaker one. My problem was that I was concentrating too much on my technique and not paying enough attention to the steering. We could have reversed positions, since we both had experience at port and at starboard, but having the stronger rower in the bow would have exaggerated the power difference, since the pull of the bow oar has more influence on turniing the boat.

Bob S.

[Ray79]

Nope, no pause drills yet. We are still at the stage of rowing mostly in pairs and fours!
Brent

Pairs, already! That is impressive to me. The pair-oar is the toughest boat of all to master.

Hi Bob,

I think Brent was referring to 2 or 4 people within an 8 rowing, whilst the rest sit the boat - oars flat on the water. Its the way I learned to row sweep at University (all the focus was on 8's and 4's)

I agree with your other comment about pairs being the most difficult to master, particularly if you have people of different sizes and strengths - the steering can be a nightmare. I feel that you sitting at bow with your bigger partner would be best, you would have less moment effect than he would had he been in bow. I used to row stroke in a pair (just for outings no races) with a guy 15 years my senior and a good 8 inches shorter than myself - I also steered from the stern, that was interesting from time to time to say the least.

However when it goes well in a pair, you really feel that you get back all that you put in.

Cheers

Raymond

[Ray79]

What you are describing in single skulls sounds fantastic.

Hi Brent

This guy is pretty handy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQexYYr7H-g

Particularly like the racing starts with the oars upside down at about 1:48

[icomefrombirmingham]

Hi Bob, Raymond,
Yes Raymond is correct. We are rowing only in 8s and we are learning by generally having one pair within the eight rowing. Bow pair, stern pair etc. We have got to bow 4 or stern four rowing reasonably well together. But when all 8 start to thrash about it gets a bit unstable.
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific.

The eight man boat is the only one available in rec league. And, though I think I will love it when we gwt the whole boat moving, I can see that there are logistical problems in an 8 that aren't so great in a 4 or a 2...and especially in a single. (I am team captain...purely an adminstrative function...and am amazed that at least four people in our crew can't seem to find the reply button on their emails...so I never know if they will be at practice or not!).

I am confused on one point in particular.Can one of you guys help me out?

On Sunday morning, when I was rowing in my "pair" with the person in the #6 seat (I was in 5) we were really starting to motor and it felt good. #6 was a high school rower a few years ago and a reguler ergoist since, female and 100lbs lighter than me, but her technique was more than equal to my strength...but we were balanced (and there were six other oars setting-up the boat)....and it felt great.
Now, when we went to stern 4 rowing together I had some problems at the end of the drive getting my blade out of the water because the boat was leaning to my side. I don't look at my blade and I try hard to keep my handle moving along a consistent path.I can't tell whether I am doing something wrong or whether the four who are setting up the boat behind me are being inconsistent so that my blade is deeper in the water because of the lean than my handle path leads me to believe.
I will ask our coach on Wednesday. But any ideas in the meantime?
Thanks,
Brent

[Ray79]

Hi Brent.

Balance is probably the most unpredictable things in rowing and also the hardest to get right. This is simply because it is affected by EVERYTHING - and I mean Everything. A list of examples of things that can cause the balance to be off are;

Varying stroke lengths
One side not drawing up enough
One Side washing out slightly
Timing (catch, drive, extraction)
Hand heights on the draw
Hand heights on the recovery
Body positions in relation to each other (bow to stern)
Body weight position in the boat (central or not)
How much rudder is on
...............

The list is virtually endless, and each of these things can have a knock on effect onto something else. The key is (and I think I mentioned it before) is to make sure you look after what you are doing, and stay consistent. From what you describe,, the only suggestion I could offer is for yourself (#5) and #7 to concentrate on "drawing up". That is not to say raise the hands during the drive (the hands should remain level), but it means that as you come to the end of the drive (legs extended, body lean, and hands finishing) that you dont allow the handle to drop towards your lap, as this will just limit the amount of room you have around the turn as your hands will have nowhere to tap down to.

Probably not a great explanation, and maybe Paul or Bob has a better idea of what could be causing the problem, but that would be my gut feeling.

Cheers

Raymond