Hi All,
Allow myself to introduce myself....
Okay on with the show, I am about to purchase a rower for fitness and am currently deciding between a C2 and Fluid rower s500.
I am new to rowing and primarliy intend to use it to do crossfit style training 1K/400m in circuit style and the guys over there advocate the C2 only.
I am Australian so basically get shafted quite hard on price.. $850 I wish and the retail price for a C2 D is $2199, E $2499. No deals are avialble really.
I have come across a first degree fluid rower for $1999 and I may be able to bargain them down fully as it has a few scratches etc.
Have tried both and like both, both sturdy, same PM3 monitor and both have their good points.
Big plusses for the C2 are reliability, known brand, excellent resale and online community.
The fluid rower feels more solid, comfy, like the sound and feel and it's $500-$200 cheaper which is a significant amount.
But then again I don't really want to buy on price alone and want the best machine as over time $200-$500 is nothing.
Any opinions welcome and currently I am leaning towards the C2 and need you to help me justify in my head that the extar $200-$500 is worth it.
Yeah I am funny like that.
Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
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PaulS
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The first and only time I tried a Fluid Rower, probably 2yrs ago now, the machine seemed solid and well built, very smooth, but it also ran out of length during the drive, i.e. the band/belt was simply not long enough. This caused a sharp stop at the finish. The machine was brand new, so maybe the band was going to stretch slightly, and that's all it would have taken, but it was a bit disconcerting, because I am not particularly tall. (6'2")
Of course you are in the Land of the RowPerfect machine now, so that might be something you want to look at.
After having tried all of the top contenders over the last 25 years, I've stuck with the C2 and can say that I've never been disappointed. (Well, except for the robins egg blue color of the Original Mod D's)
Of course you are in the Land of the RowPerfect machine now, so that might be something you want to look at.
After having tried all of the top contenders over the last 25 years, I've stuck with the C2 and can say that I've never been disappointed. (Well, except for the robins egg blue color of the Original Mod D's)
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
That was my impression of the fluid rower + the sound of it was little more appealing than the sound of the C2.
Since I'm a shorty (under 6 ft) I can't imagine band length being an issue for me.
I had never heard of the RP rower and it certainly seems very interesting..if it's priced reasonably it will get put in the mix .
I have a feeling though that they will all be priced exactly the same... love the retail market in AUS.
Since I'm a shorty (under 6 ft) I can't imagine band length being an issue for me.
I had never heard of the RP rower and it certainly seems very interesting..if it's priced reasonably it will get put in the mix .
I have a feeling though that they will all be priced exactly the same... love the retail market in AUS.
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PaulS
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the Fluid Rower (S500) is considerably more expensive than the C2 in the USA, as is the RP.
BTW - The only fluid rower I've tried was what is now the S500, I didn't realize there were other models until just looking at their web site now.
BTW - The only fluid rower I've tried was what is now the S500, I didn't realize there were other models until just looking at their web site now.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
No it doesn't, but it's a minor annoyance that you get such a rip off here but it's not as if I can get one shipped from the USA at the now excellent exchange rate of 85c.PaulS wrote:Well, if it makes you feel any better, the Fluid Rower (S500) is considerably more expensive than the C2 in the USA, as is the RP.
BTW - The only fluid rower I've tried was what is now the S500, I didn't realize there were other models until just looking at their web site now.
Too risky a task and I guess invalidates the warranty..
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet I suppose and just do it despite any other misgivings.
I'll have to plod on down and get one tomorrow I suppose as the model C I was looking at on ebay went for $1200!
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
The resistance on the Fluid Rower is a bit different from the resistance on a concept 2.
with the Fluid Rower you're lifting water as well as pushing against viscous drag of the water.
Lifting water gives you a resistance force that's independent of the velocity. When you have that kind of constant force, it's harder to keep your heartrate up.
But it would be less impactful, easier on your joints than a C2, if you're concerned about that.
I found that when I tried out a Fluid Rower, that it was more tiring working out at a given heart rate and it took me longer to raise my heart rate.
But I did like it. As people point out in online reviews the Fluid Rower doesn't have the low-resistance spots right at the beginning and end of a stroke that the C2 does.
I unfortunately bought a magnetic rowing machine earlier. That's ALL the constant-force kind of resistance and I wasn't able to get my heart rate up much at all on it after a while.
Laura
with the Fluid Rower you're lifting water as well as pushing against viscous drag of the water.
Lifting water gives you a resistance force that's independent of the velocity. When you have that kind of constant force, it's harder to keep your heartrate up.
But it would be less impactful, easier on your joints than a C2, if you're concerned about that.
I found that when I tried out a Fluid Rower, that it was more tiring working out at a given heart rate and it took me longer to raise my heart rate.
But I did like it. As people point out in online reviews the Fluid Rower doesn't have the low-resistance spots right at the beginning and end of a stroke that the C2 does.
I unfortunately bought a magnetic rowing machine earlier. That's ALL the constant-force kind of resistance and I wasn't able to get my heart rate up much at all on it after a while.
Laura
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
Hi All,
A few months back I did my research, tried the Concept 2 at a gym (and liked it), and tried the Fluid Rower s350 at a store, and liked it too. I eventually purchased the Fluid Rower s350, and here are my observations after using it for a month:
The monitor shuts off after 10 seconds. If you get sweat in your eyes, like I do, you better remember how many meters you rowed because after you wipe your eyes, drink some water, and get back to rowing...SURPRISE! You're back at zero meters. Even if you set the number of meters, and row down...say from 10,000 to zero...10 seconds inactivity and the monitor shuts off. Bummer.
Maintenance. Part of the reason I bought the Fluid Rower is I was told it requires little maintenance, or at least much less then the chain driven Concept 2. I was lied to. Behind the water chamber (which is very easy to fill, BTW), are the workings of the rower, with a bungie and chain. So you have the maintenance of both water and oiling a chain every 50 hours (spec'ed by the manufacturer). So, although I don't know the innards of a Concept 2, I have gathered that they are self serviceable, so the Fluid Rower loses out here because you have at least the same maintenance of the Concept 2, but added water care.
The resistance on the Fluid rower is great, though. When you adjust it, you feel it. I know there are some new people to rowing on these forums, I am a newbie myself. But I am also a long time runner, and I know that anyone can jog for 50 yards and say "Oh, this is easy!" I like to find the same people at mile 6 and say "So, how ya feeling now chum? Can you run a 7 minute mile?" To sum this up, if you set the resistance on the fluid rower from 1 to 16, not only will you immediately feel it, but after 5000 meters, you will definitely feel it! When I changed the resistance on the Concept 2...I gotta say, I couldn't feel it too much, but I can't attest to it not working at all, so I leave that argument up to owners of the Concept 2. But from the catch, all the way through the stroke, the Fluid Rower is one solid machine and offers a great workout.
How loud is the Fluid Rower? It sloshes...it's filled with water, after all! To me, it sounds like a loud dishwasher, or washing machine. It is not nearly as loud as the Concept 2, but nor is it like the soothing drip you hear from a small fountain in a doctor's office. You can hear the strap being rewound, and the chain working, but overall you hear the water sloshing, and it is very relaxing and unoffensive to the others in the house. I cannot attest to how loud the Concept 2 is outside of a gym, but I am pretty certain it would be much louder then the Fluid Rower inside a home. I could hear the chain rattling and the fan going over the blasting music and people chattering around me.
In closing, I am 6 foot, 165 lbs, and am all arms and legs, and find there is plenty of room on the Fluid Rower. Although it may initially sound like I have buyers remorse, I don't. I just felt that the salesperson was dishonest when it came to my questions on maintaining it, otherwise I am very happy with my purchase. I wish it had the Concept 2 monitor, as I would love to write software for it, but it doesn't, so I will live with it. I hope this helps anyone considering the two rowers, both have pluses and minuses, and in the end it will be a personal decision as to which you go with. Happy Rowing!
A few months back I did my research, tried the Concept 2 at a gym (and liked it), and tried the Fluid Rower s350 at a store, and liked it too. I eventually purchased the Fluid Rower s350, and here are my observations after using it for a month:
The monitor shuts off after 10 seconds. If you get sweat in your eyes, like I do, you better remember how many meters you rowed because after you wipe your eyes, drink some water, and get back to rowing...SURPRISE! You're back at zero meters. Even if you set the number of meters, and row down...say from 10,000 to zero...10 seconds inactivity and the monitor shuts off. Bummer.
Maintenance. Part of the reason I bought the Fluid Rower is I was told it requires little maintenance, or at least much less then the chain driven Concept 2. I was lied to. Behind the water chamber (which is very easy to fill, BTW), are the workings of the rower, with a bungie and chain. So you have the maintenance of both water and oiling a chain every 50 hours (spec'ed by the manufacturer). So, although I don't know the innards of a Concept 2, I have gathered that they are self serviceable, so the Fluid Rower loses out here because you have at least the same maintenance of the Concept 2, but added water care.
The resistance on the Fluid rower is great, though. When you adjust it, you feel it. I know there are some new people to rowing on these forums, I am a newbie myself. But I am also a long time runner, and I know that anyone can jog for 50 yards and say "Oh, this is easy!" I like to find the same people at mile 6 and say "So, how ya feeling now chum? Can you run a 7 minute mile?" To sum this up, if you set the resistance on the fluid rower from 1 to 16, not only will you immediately feel it, but after 5000 meters, you will definitely feel it! When I changed the resistance on the Concept 2...I gotta say, I couldn't feel it too much, but I can't attest to it not working at all, so I leave that argument up to owners of the Concept 2. But from the catch, all the way through the stroke, the Fluid Rower is one solid machine and offers a great workout.
How loud is the Fluid Rower? It sloshes...it's filled with water, after all! To me, it sounds like a loud dishwasher, or washing machine. It is not nearly as loud as the Concept 2, but nor is it like the soothing drip you hear from a small fountain in a doctor's office. You can hear the strap being rewound, and the chain working, but overall you hear the water sloshing, and it is very relaxing and unoffensive to the others in the house. I cannot attest to how loud the Concept 2 is outside of a gym, but I am pretty certain it would be much louder then the Fluid Rower inside a home. I could hear the chain rattling and the fan going over the blasting music and people chattering around me.
In closing, I am 6 foot, 165 lbs, and am all arms and legs, and find there is plenty of room on the Fluid Rower. Although it may initially sound like I have buyers remorse, I don't. I just felt that the salesperson was dishonest when it came to my questions on maintaining it, otherwise I am very happy with my purchase. I wish it had the Concept 2 monitor, as I would love to write software for it, but it doesn't, so I will live with it. I hope this helps anyone considering the two rowers, both have pluses and minuses, and in the end it will be a personal decision as to which you go with. Happy Rowing!
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
When I was trying the Fluid Rower at the gym I didn't hear any chain noise. I didn't inspect its inner workings so I don't know if it had a chain. It may have been a different model from yours. And it was in a gym with background noise.seacow wrote: You can hear the strap being rewound, and the chain working, but overall you hear the water sloshing, and it is very relaxing and unoffensive to the others in the house.
This depends on which model of Concept 2. The model D, which has some blue plastic parts, is much quieter than the model C, which is what most gyms have. I've heard the model D doesn't make chain noise if it's well-maintained.I cannot attest to how loud the Concept 2 is outside of a gym, but I am pretty certain it would be much louder then the Fluid Rower inside a home. I could hear the chain rattling and the fan going over the blasting music and people chattering around me.
The performance measurement is less consistent than the Concept 2 in my experience. I'd get distances traveled in 30 minutes that varied rather a lot on the Fluid Rower. If you're focused on your performance this could bug you.I wish it had the Concept 2 monitor
Laura
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
It sounds like your technique is off. People say damper level 3 or 4 on the Concept 2 is most like water, and Olympic rowers can get a workout on water!seacow wrote:
if you set the resistance on the fluid rower from 1 to 16, not only will you immediately feel it, but after 5000 meters, you will definitely feel it! When I changed the resistance on the Concept 2...I gotta say, I couldn't feel it too much, but I can't attest to it not working at all, so I leave that argument up to owners of the Concept 2.
Try kicking hard. You'll likely have to set the damper level *down* to be able to kick hard and fast. The water resistance firms up when the speed you're pulling on the bar increases, so you are really kicking against something, if the damper level is low enough so you can really accelerate the pullbar.
Then, the right technique on the return stroke that ensures you slow down on the return somewhat. So kicking hard doesn't mean you go at a very high strokes/minute - you get to have a little rest on the return stroke to recover after the hard kick.
See the "Flip Luisi" video on YouTube (search for it in Google). It's much more detailed than the info on technique given by Concept 2 or the Fluid Rower, and it agrees with rowing coaches' info on form online.
Laura
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
As a service to anyone googling the two types of rower, I feel an update to a 6 year old post is justified. The fluid rower broke 6 months after use. The manufacturer, First Degree Fitness, first needed pictures and a technician to look at the rower before considering fixing it. So while I waited for that to transpire, the rower gathered dust. After it was fixed, the clutch immediately broke 1 month later. I nearly flew off the rower because there was zero resistance. At that point, First Degree Fitness would not return calls made by the local store I bought it from. The clock, or rather, the calender, continued to tick. Months went by.
I bought the unit for $1600, and in anger, returned it to the local store, who promised to fix it before the 2 year warranty transpired. Yes, that is how long I was playing the back and forth game with the local dealer. I finally got fed up and was offered $350 one month before the warranty expired, which I took as a lesson learned. The sting of that lesson obviously never died, as I resurrect an old thread.
Happily, and I should have listened to the great people on this forum when I was debating the purchase, I am a proud owner of a Concept 2, model D. I just rowed my first 10k, after months of grueling 6, 7 and 8ks...and was all set to share that news, when I got sidetracked by this thread. I hope my lesson can help illustrate that when a majority of people are using a piece of exercise equipment that they rave about, it does not pay to be a hipster doofus rebel.
I bought the unit for $1600, and in anger, returned it to the local store, who promised to fix it before the 2 year warranty transpired. Yes, that is how long I was playing the back and forth game with the local dealer. I finally got fed up and was offered $350 one month before the warranty expired, which I took as a lesson learned. The sting of that lesson obviously never died, as I resurrect an old thread.
Happily, and I should have listened to the great people on this forum when I was debating the purchase, I am a proud owner of a Concept 2, model D. I just rowed my first 10k, after months of grueling 6, 7 and 8ks...and was all set to share that news, when I got sidetracked by this thread. I hope my lesson can help illustrate that when a majority of people are using a piece of exercise equipment that they rave about, it does not pay to be a hipster doofus rebel.
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
Seacow,
I am very new to rowing..well, to be more accurate, I haven't actually even started yet. But it is an activity that I have wanted to get into since I was 12 or 13 years old. I am currently scouring CL for a good bargain on a Concept II, so that I can finally start rowing!! It's difficult to get started on an extremely limited budget (to say the least). But I am determined to make this happen - hopefully sooner than later.
Anyway, as I have been doing my due diligence in researching this stuff, I came across this thread. And, since no one else has responded, yet, to your latest post, I just thought I'd say thank you for following up. It is information like you gave here that is really valuable to people like me - who are looking for the right investment to make.
So, thank you for it. Hope all is still well, and stays that way.
I am very new to rowing..well, to be more accurate, I haven't actually even started yet. But it is an activity that I have wanted to get into since I was 12 or 13 years old. I am currently scouring CL for a good bargain on a Concept II, so that I can finally start rowing!! It's difficult to get started on an extremely limited budget (to say the least). But I am determined to make this happen - hopefully sooner than later.
Anyway, as I have been doing my due diligence in researching this stuff, I came across this thread. And, since no one else has responded, yet, to your latest post, I just thought I'd say thank you for following up. It is information like you gave here that is really valuable to people like me - who are looking for the right investment to make.
So, thank you for it. Hope all is still well, and stays that way.
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
Tlead,
Good luck with the CL scour! I can relate. I spent about a year looking, but every one I came across was just a few hundred shy of what Concept 2 was asking, so I bit the bullet that way and ended up buying new...but not regretting it at all. By this time next year, it will have paid for itself in gym membership costs.
All is well, I love the Model D I bought. I rowed my first sub 2 minute 500 meters last night (I try to row 10k 3-4 times per week)...the more you use the machine, the more it kicks back!
Please send me an email at tech @ deltarower.com, and in the interest of not adding to an extremely limited budget, I will give you a free copy of my software when it's done. It's shaping up pretty nice, I need to fix a few things and go through some beta testing before releasing it. Happy hunting, I hope you find a good bargain!
Good luck with the CL scour! I can relate. I spent about a year looking, but every one I came across was just a few hundred shy of what Concept 2 was asking, so I bit the bullet that way and ended up buying new...but not regretting it at all. By this time next year, it will have paid for itself in gym membership costs.
All is well, I love the Model D I bought. I rowed my first sub 2 minute 500 meters last night (I try to row 10k 3-4 times per week)...the more you use the machine, the more it kicks back!
Please send me an email at tech @ deltarower.com, and in the interest of not adding to an extremely limited budget, I will give you a free copy of my software when it's done. It's shaping up pretty nice, I need to fix a few things and go through some beta testing before releasing it. Happy hunting, I hope you find a good bargain!
Re: Fluid rower vs C2 model D/E
Thanks, a lot, Seacow! I know exactly what you mean!
Not that I can presently afford a brand new machine, but, looking at the listings for used Model Ds (and even Cs sometimes believe it or not!), it's hard to see the benefit in buying (one of those) used. Of course, generally speaking, the C models are listed for much more fair prices. But, I think the take away from all this is twofold. First, as we are all aware, Concept II machines hold their value quite well. Second, I think that what is en vogue in the physical fitness world is really putting an even bigger premium on a quality rower. So, it looks like I will be 'on the scour' for a little while before I find the machine I want at a price I can afford haha. Or, if my financial situation happens to change in the meantime, I would have no anxiety about purchasing new.
But, anyway, congrats on your progress! I love that you can actively manipulate the intensity of your workout - in real time. Like you said, the more you push, the more the machine pushes back. To me, that is a fantastic predicament! Perfect, really, or at least close to it.
I really appreciate your generous offer of sending me the program you are working on. Although, I couldn't accept it for free. I will email you though.
Cheers!
Not that I can presently afford a brand new machine, but, looking at the listings for used Model Ds (and even Cs sometimes believe it or not!), it's hard to see the benefit in buying (one of those) used. Of course, generally speaking, the C models are listed for much more fair prices. But, I think the take away from all this is twofold. First, as we are all aware, Concept II machines hold their value quite well. Second, I think that what is en vogue in the physical fitness world is really putting an even bigger premium on a quality rower. So, it looks like I will be 'on the scour' for a little while before I find the machine I want at a price I can afford haha. Or, if my financial situation happens to change in the meantime, I would have no anxiety about purchasing new.
But, anyway, congrats on your progress! I love that you can actively manipulate the intensity of your workout - in real time. Like you said, the more you push, the more the machine pushes back. To me, that is a fantastic predicament! Perfect, really, or at least close to it.
I really appreciate your generous offer of sending me the program you are working on. Although, I couldn't accept it for free. I will email you though.
Cheers!