Stroke Rate Q

ParisHeel · Post by **ParisHeel** » April 10th, 2007, 10:55 am

Hello All-

I'm a 48 y/o longtime user of the C2 model B, although I've never rowed on water.

After taking a few year's sabbatical to get fat and out of shape, I'm back on my erg and enjoying it as ever.

My typical w/o has always been an hour row, logging about 13k. My s/r has always been about 32 strokes/min, which feels comfortable. In doing faster paces that can rise to 38.

My Q is this: It seems alot of workouts are premised on stroke rates of 18-22 spm. When I attempt this rate it seems unnatural to me. What are the advantages, if any, of rowing at this reduced rate as opposed to the faster rate I find myself using? Are there physiological reasons for the lower rate, or is this a carry-over from on water rowing that really doesnt apply to me?

Thanks for your input.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » April 10th, 2007, 11:18 am

Your 32 spm is a good rate.

The low rates are to help people cover more distance.

bscastro · Post by **bscastro** » April 10th, 2007, 11:29 am

A couple things to think about:
1. When I take the rate up above 30 (usually during short intervals and sprints), I find I'm rushing to get back on the recovery. I guess I would make sure that you're taking a nice full stroke with proper form and see how it feels at lower stroke rate.
2. One reason to try lower stroke rate is to work on efficiency of drive - e.g. To cover the same distance with fewer strokes drive has to be more powerful/efficient.
3. Another reason is related to point #1: Using lower stroke rate to relax on recovery phase of stroke and check form.
4. There is probably no ideal stroke rate for everyone - what is comfortable at 32 for you is uncomfortable for me. For example, on longer rows, I keep it around 22-23.

Hope some of these thoughts are helpful.

Best regards,
Bryan

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » April 10th, 2007, 3:18 pm

While 32 might be OK, there is a good chance your technique is not good. If you are not short and light, there is little chance that 32 will be your most optimal rating for an hour long row.

At 32 you are moving your body back and forth a lot. That energy is not showing up in the power measurement and hence is lost energy. The trade off is that higher stroke ratings result in more constant power application which is more efficient.

If you can post a video of you rowing to U-Tube people here can give you feedback on your technique. Also there is a lot of good information about technique in previous threads. Do a search and see what you find.

icon · Post by **icon** » April 10th, 2007, 10:49 pm

It is interesting to see some of the responses.

I've been doing longer pieces lately in preparation for a marathon but in general I find that my most efficient/comfortable stroke rate for anything in excess of 6-8km is 20-25 SPM. I'm trying to keep my split b/w 2:07-2:08.

At the lower stroke rates I focus on a smooth (strong) acceleration from the catch through to the finish and focus on relaxing during the recovery. I'm not overly tall (only 5'7") and when I was rowing in college I weighed in at 150-160 lbs (I'm closer to 170 right now and several years older.)

On much shorter pieces I my stroke rate can get up to 30-35 but alas I can't maintain that kind of power for very long.

Mind you I'm no expert... this is just what works for me... and doesn't make what you or anyone else is doing incorrect.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » April 10th, 2007, 11:51 pm

Nosmo wrote:While 32 might be OK, there is a good chance your technique is not good. If you are not short and light, there is little chance that 32 will be your most optimal rating for an hour long row.

If you can post a video of you rowing to U-Tube people here can give you feedback on your technique. Also there is a lot of good information about technique in previous threads. Do a search and see what you find.

You can also check on a video that shows an experienced instructor introducing a neophyte to the erg:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2747064

It is over 16' and 47 MB, so you need a little patience to download it and watch it.

Bob S.

Snail Space · Post by **Snail Space** » April 11th, 2007, 7:29 am

Bob S. wrote:You can also check on a video that shows an experienced instructor introducing a neophyte to the erg:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2747064

It is over 16' and 47 MB, so you need a little patience to download it and watch it.

Only watched the first few minutes so far, but the folk rowing in the background seem to bring their knees up a little early.

jamesg · Post by **jamesg** » April 11th, 2007, 8:19 am

What are the advantages, if any, of rowing at this reduced rate as opposed to the faster rate I find myself using?

Your 13km/h means roughly 130W, which is a lot more than is often seen in gyms, so it's fine to start with. If you weigh 60-65kg (or if that would be your fighting weight), you're working well into the UT2 band, so you're getting fitter.

Using a lower rating at the same power or pace will force you to pull longer and harder strokes. How much margin you have in this direction depends on your weight and sex. The advantages you get will be greater extension and strength. These in turn will let you increase power, so sweat more and get fitter still, which is what it's all about.

It does of course derive from rowing; to move a boat we pull long hard strokes and then let her run, putting our trust in Sir Isaac. Unless you're racing there's never any hurry to take the next stroke, that would be hard work so it's best put off as long as possible; the boat goes anyway.

bscastro · Post by **bscastro** » April 11th, 2007, 10:16 am

Snail Space wrote:
Bob S. wrote:You can also check on a video that shows an experienced instructor introducing a neophyte to the erg:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2747064

It is over 16' and 47 MB, so you need a little patience to download it and watch it.
Only watched the first few minutes so far, but the folk rowing in the background seem to bring their knees up a little early.

I watched the whole thing with interest this morning. I felt the guy closest to the host had the best form, and the instructor gave good instruction as well. Of course, the host, being his first time on an erg, didn't do so great, but was okay by the end.

Bryan

Snail Space · Post by **Snail Space** » April 11th, 2007, 5:39 pm

jamesg wrote:Unless you're racing there's never any hurry to take the next stroke, that would be hard work so it's best put off as long as possible; the boat goes anyway.

So does the flywheel.
That's why I keep postponing the next stroke, and enjoy rowing at 18-20spm.

Cheers
Dave

icon · Post by **icon** » April 11th, 2007, 6:09 pm

bscastro wrote:I felt the guy closest to the host had the best form, and the instructor gave good instruction as well.

Of course he did considering as the leader pointed out he is a national champion...

That was a cool video... I'm glad it was posted.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » April 11th, 2007, 10:27 pm

icon wrote:
bscastro wrote:I felt the guy closest to the host had the best form, and the instructor gave good instruction as well.
Of course he did considering as the leader pointed out he is a national champion...

That was a cool video... I'm glad it was posted.

The leader, Josh Crosby, has quite a record himself:

http://webpages.charter.net/adventurera ... /josh.html

He now has a chain of erg gyms all across the U.S. His first was opened in Santa Monica, CA, and the one shown in the video is, I believe, in New York City.

Bob S.

icon · Post by **icon** » April 12th, 2007, 3:43 pm

Bob S. wrote:
icon wrote:
bscastro wrote:I felt the guy closest to the host had the best form, and the instructor gave good instruction as well.
Of course he did considering as the leader pointed out he is a national champion...

That was a cool video... I'm glad it was posted.
The leader, Josh Crosby, has quite a record himself:

http://webpages.charter.net/adventurera ... /josh.html

He now has a chain of erg gyms all across the U.S. His first was opened in Santa Monica, CA, and the one shown in the video is, I believe, in New York City.

Oh, I didn't mean that the leader (Josh) wasn't an expert... from what he told the interviewer he certainly has an impressive resume. I'm also impressed to hear about his grandfather.