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ancho
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Post by ancho » March 28th, 2007, 6:44 am

Snail Space wrote:...
Let us know how you get on.

Cheers
Dave
Well, I did a bit over 10k and it was great! :D
A bit bouncy at the beginning, but got into it quite fast.
Duc: I can't understand how you got bored, but if you are still fed up of your slides, I'll take them for a reasonable price, forwarding costs pated by the seller :wink: !

No scientific approach, but just my impressions:

It's really easy to rate extremely high (got up to 54 spm without loosing control), slow rates (16-18 spm) are quite difficult to manage.
On steady pace, it demands about 4 spm more than on a fix erg.
The power goes much mor over the legs than over the back

For me it's difficult to understand how the same movement can feel so different.

Technically, you are able to really separate the movements: legs-body-arms (one of my long lasting problems), and it forces you to make a really fast catch.

No straps needed, even for very high stroke rates.

Excercises such as "one legged" or "legs only" are easy and feel great.
And, from the feeling I got from this row, I think it makes you faster (at least for short distances), I'll agree with JR for this one.
I didn't give it a try, but I had the feeling yesterday that I could have smashed my 500m PB easyly.

It's much better for watching telly while rowing, because you "stand still".
A, and it makes C-breeze nearly compulsory (PaulS: You're welcome! :wink: )!

I hope to keep the slides for a few days, but now the problem is that I need a set for me! :?
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
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PaulS
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Post by PaulS » March 28th, 2007, 9:04 am

ancho wrote: I didn't give it a try, but I had the feeling yesterday that I could have smashed my 500m PB easyly.
Actually you sound more like Ranger. :wink:

If you beat your 500m PB you will only do so by rating higher, "trading rate for pace", illustrated by the SPI being lower. So the question is: Is that really an improvement?

Go for it! Let's add another data point.

Did you really mean to say that you were +4spm on steady state? Was that for the same, or a faster pace? ("steady" what?)
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."

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ancho
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Post by ancho » March 28th, 2007, 10:07 am

You naysayer, you!
"Feeling easy" without slides = 20-22 spm, with slides = 24-26 spm, not very scientific approach, I told you!
If I can keep the slides some more days, I'll do some time trialling, but not this week! (HORR on saturday!)

Cheers

BTW, I insist in that slides (or better, RowPerfect) should feel somehow like a sliding rigger boat.
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!

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Tyn
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Post by Tyn » March 28th, 2007, 11:48 am

Actually you sound more like Ranger
Hey Buster!
Who are you calling 'ranger'!!

Don't ever do that again!!
Tyn

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Ducatista
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Post by Ducatista » March 28th, 2007, 11:53 am

ancho wrote:Duc: I can't understand how you got bored, but if you are still fed up of your slides, I'll take them for a reasonable price, forwarding costs pated by the seller :wink: !
Wishful thinking, mister! I wasn't bored, I just wasn't smitten after my first 2K outing. Now I'm ready to go steady. I likes my slides.

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ancho
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Post by ancho » March 28th, 2007, 12:18 pm

Hm :?
Glad you're glad now! :?
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
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PaulS
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Post by PaulS » March 28th, 2007, 12:28 pm

ancho wrote:You naysayer, you!
"Feeling easy" without slides = 20-22 spm, with slides = 24-26 spm, not very scientific approach, I told you!
If I can keep the slides some more days, I'll do some time trialling, but not this week! (HORR on saturday!)

Cheers

BTW, I insist in that slides (or better, RowPerfect) should feel somehow like a sliding rigger boat.
Good luck at the HORR.

Perhaps if you fixed the seat with regard to the ground, with the Erg sliding about under you, then it would be more like the sliding rigger boat. i.e. the boat being dragged along by your bum. Otherwise the slides feel more like a fixed rig boat for the simple reason that is what they are most like, both the seat and Erg being free to move freely WRT the ground.

While we strive to keep the seat stationary WRT the ground when on Slides or RP, that is only going to be approached and never achieved (as it is forced to be when in a sliding rigger boat)

Using a bungee similar to the ones used on the slides, I've experimented with fixing the seat position and it can be felt even with the stretching connection, if a rope were used the feeling would be magnified considerably, IMO. (I don't plan on trying that.) :roll:

Sorry Tyn, that was a bit nasty, wasn't it? :twisted:
Erg on,
Paul Smith
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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 31st, 2007, 7:13 pm

PaulS wrote:Perhaps if you fixed the seat with regard to the ground, with the Erg sliding about under you, then it would be more like the sliding rigger boat.
Warren Berger's dynamic fixed seat model B has the seat attached to the railing and thus fixed in regards to the ground.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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Post by PaulS » March 31st, 2007, 9:14 pm

John Rupp wrote:
PaulS wrote:Perhaps if you fixed the seat with regard to the ground, with the Erg sliding about under you, then it would be more like the sliding rigger boat.
Warren Berger's dynamic fixed seat model B has the seat attached to the railing and thus fixed in regards to the ground.
Good catch!
Yes, that is true. But there is not much mass being moved in opposition to his body IIRC. Didn't he rig something that used a cable through the foot stretcher? This would definitely be a bit different, but not quite what I'm describing.

Three conditions might be these:
C2 on slides with the seat fixed relative to the ground.
RP with the seat clamped in place.
The Berger System.

None of them really match up to a fixed seat boat because the boat is being dragged along by the bum in a single direction the whole time, but some of the difficulties might be found amongst the various scenarios.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
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"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 31st, 2007, 10:33 pm

PaulS wrote:C2 on slides with the seat fixed relative to the ground.
How about the c2 on slides, with a seat that is fixed to the floor, like the plastic crates idea but more refined.

A seat could be rigged up similarly that has base on the floor outside and towards the back of the slides, and shouldn't move as long as the base is good.

These plastic crates haven't moved yet even on a very smooth concrete floor.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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ancho
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Post by ancho » May 11th, 2007, 3:37 am

PaulS wrote:...
If you beat your 500m PB you will only do so by rating higher, "trading rate for pace", illustrated by the SPI being lower. So the question is: Is that really an improvement?

Go for it! Let's add another data point.

Did you really mean to say that you were +4spm on steady state? Was that for the same, or a faster pace? ("steady" what?)
Yesterday, after my regular otw workout, we sat an erg on slides, and played a bit around.

Thinking about this matter, I went for a hard 500m.
During the warmup, and without pretending it, I smashed my low pull by 2 sec.

And I did a new PB in 2,6 sec less than my previous one (1 year old).
I must say that I dud a mych better pacing than a year ago, and that it didn't feel "easy" at all, specially the last 100m.

I didn't record the average spm, but ended well in the 50's.

So "rate for pace"? Sure, but still faster over all! B)
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!

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