I loose much power at higher stroke rates

[lt_gustavsen]

When I row at higher stroke rates (over 32) I feel I loose a lot of power. Here is a few minutes from Xeno’s DVD “interactive training with higher stroke rates”.



The plot is smoothed so it shows lower value than it actually is, but you get the idea. I think the middle one is on 34 and the last one is actually 36 and I felt the movement alone exhausted me. As you can see the watt is lower at the last interval. Have anyone a suggestion for what to put focus on in my training to be better on higher stroke rates?

Normally I row shorter distance at 28-29 and longer like 10K at 22-24. But since Xeno was pushing me I had to give it a try. I felt like he almost killed me.

I am 194 cm (6 feet and 4 inch) and my latest attempt on 5K was 18.33. I can also do an 8x500 on around 1:43.

Lars

[PaulS]

You have just gone beyond the point of dimishing returns, when taking the rate up no longer increases the average power output.

Taking more strokes per minute only to cover less distance in that minute makes little sense, doesn't it?

Also, you had been building up fatigue by that time, so it may not necessarily be a hard cap for you at the moment, but something to monitor for similar workouts.

Another issure is that your drive time, if maintaining stroke length, is not changing very much so you are robbing the time needed to increase the rate mostly from the recovery, this compresses your ratio and creates a far different work environment for your muscles to deal with.

[lt_gustavsen]

Thanks for your post.
When I row with Xeno on his dvd’s I try to follow his movements. In the beginning it was quit choking to see how fast his drive is. Since I only row alone at home this have helped me a lot. On this dvd I had to put the damper at the lowest setting to follow him. But at strokerate >32 I could not follow him on the drive anymore. So I tried to be a man and catch up at the recovery. At around 18:30 minutes on the plot I was very close to my maximum heart rate after I had pushed around 415 watts for 30 sec.

This is only the second time I watch this video. (And people believe video watching is a lazy activity). The first time around a 3-4 weeks ago I was not able to go over >32 spm at all so I think I have some progress.

Lars

[johnlvs2run]

at strokerate >32 I could not follow him on the drive anymore. So I tried to be a man and catch up at the recovery. At around 18:30 minutes on the plot I was very close to my maximum heart rate after I had pushed around 415 watts for 30 sec.

An 18:33 5k is 254 watts and 1:51.3 pace.

Driving at 415 watts is definitely going to wear you out much more quickly.

Following the drive of someone else is not a very good idea, unless they have the same type of stroke you are aiming for. If you are aiming for more watts at 36 spm then the stroke needs to be balanced with your drive and recovery. I think what you are trying to do is drive twice as hard then rest twice as long in between drives. This results in a higher effort over time, i.e. your higher heart rates, and a slower time for your effort.

When going for time then it is important to balance your stroke with the drive and recovery. On the other hand if you are just trying to get the drive as hard and fast as you can, then your effort, ease, and how long you can do it don't matter that much. But if you are going for time then it does.

[PaulS]

Thanks for your post.
When I row with Xeno on his dvd’s I try to follow his movements. In the beginning it was quit choking to see how fast his drive is. Since I only row alone at home this have helped me a lot. On this dvd I had to put the damper at the lowest setting to follow him. But at strokerate >32 I could not follow him on the drive anymore. So I tried to be a man and catch up at the recovery. At around 18:30 minutes on the plot I was very close to my maximum heart rate after I had pushed around 415 watts for 30 sec.

This is only the second time I watch this video. (And people believe video watching is a lazy activity). The first time around a 3-4 weeks ago I was not able to go over >32 spm at all so I think I have some progress.

Lars

I should have asked earlier, but were you both on slides? (Assuming that Xeno does his DVD's on slides)
If you were on the ground, rating up is going to be a bit tougher and require a good amount of work on the recovery, especially for bigger athletes. Those little lwts get to whip back and forth for less cost, but they always want to be given an adjustment in their favor, perhaps they should strap on a weighted backpack and see how much it helps.

You are similar in height to Xeno, so trying to match up is not a bad idea, if you are not going at the same paces he is, lowering the DF should work to get the timing right.

[xeno]

Hello Paul and Lars

Using the slides is the only way I row.

As for matching power to my stroke rate, this is not that important in my opinion. I look to provide different steady stroke rates so the ratio between power and recovery is obvious.

Rating higher is SO MUCH EASIER on slides.
When I use the slides I occasionally feel like just ripping it up and push fifty plus strokes per minute for ten to twenty seconds.

I am very happy that I can provide companionship in form of DVD. It is very rewarding to hear that I offer an additional motivation to rowing more.

Sincerely,
XENO

[lt_gustavsen]

Thanks again everybody.

Just to clear one thing I row without slides. I will consider them in the future, and the coreperform, the Cbreeze and and…..
It looks also like Xeno is 4 cm shorter than me. I found out that he is 190 cm. I guess it means something when the spm is 34-36.


Xeno:
I really like your dvd’s. I have seven of them and typical use one each week. My wife also uses them. I have learned a lot about technique and force.
I recently also bought myself a webcam. My plan was view bought the webcam and the dvd side by side on my laptop for comparison and adjusting of technique.


Lars