Lessons learned at first ergatta

[trailrunner]

I just did my first 2k indoor race at pretty low key event here in Rochester,NY. I had fun but learned a few things:

1. Make sure you know how to display drag factor on ergs that are different vintage from yours. They put me on very rough model C. I asked the organizers for help in displaying drag factor and knew I was in trouble when the response was "move that lever". Finally some gal came by that thought she knew the right buttons, but just could not get it to work.

2. Bring some chain oil - The chain was so rusty when you'd pull hard you could feel the roughness on the chain meshing with that highly stressed sprocket. By the time I realized how rough this poor old erg was all the other units were assigned. It made me appreciate my model D.

3. Don't be disappointed if you don't set a PR - Not many things in life are guaranteed including this. I was 6 sec slower than a 2k test done at home 2 weeks prior. It just wasn't my day.

4. Bigger, taller guys of similar fitness will beat you. This world is not like running where size is not as much of an issue.

I still had a nice time, and met some wonderful people.

[Ben Rea]

4. Bigger, taller guys of similar fitness will beat you.

[PaulS]

4. Bigger, taller guys of similar fitness will beat you. This world is not like running where size is not as much of an issue.

What do you mean like Running?

Running #4) Smaller, shorter guys of similar fitness will beat you. Heck they may not even be as fit!

Of course that's the benefit of being bigger, not as much need to run away.

The only people that beat you on the Erg are the ones that can produce more power than you, simple as that.

Now get in a boat and it's a completely different story, the Open's must produce more power to go at the same speed as the Lwts, and it balances out so close that Worlds Best Times have been held by the lwts from time to time.

No offense intended, but this sort of thing always looks like whining to me, and we could always do with less whining. Life's not fair, but would you really want it to be?

[dmtattny]

[quote="trailrunner"]I just did my first 2k indoor race at pretty low key event here in Rochester,NY.

Where was that? I'm in Rochester and didn't see it.

[trailrunner]

The event was called the Brighton Burn, held at Flex Gym on Culver Rd. The organizers had a tough time getting a venue. What they ended up with was a bit cramped . I think they used to do it at Brighton Middle school.

PaulS: Item #4 - I have more than made up for it running races . I can accept a disappointing performance first race on the erg. Heck I still had a good time. Imagine what it would be like if I did well. Good day.

[RowtheRockies]

4. Bigger, taller guys of similar fitness will beat you. This world is not like running where size is not as much of an issue.

What do you mean like Running?

Running #4) Smaller, shorter guys of similar fitness will beat you. Heck they may not even be as fit!

Of course that's the benefit of being bigger, not as much need to run away.

The only people that beat you on the Erg are the ones that can produce more power than you, simple as that.

Now get in a boat and it's a completely different story, the Open's must produce more power to go at the same speed as the Lwts, and it balances out so close that Worlds Best Times have been held by the lwts from time to time.

No offense intended, but this sort of thing always looks like whining to me, and we could always do with less whining. Life's not fair, but would you really want it to be?

Paul,

Someone Pi$$ in your Wheaties yesterday morning? You are absolutely correct that the athlete who can generate more power over a distance on the erg will always win. I don't think Trail Runner was whining at all, just making an observation. It is also true that Bigger Taller guys with LESS fitness will sometimes beat you.

Rich

[PaulS]

4. Bigger, taller guys of similar fitness will beat you. This world is not like running where size is not as much of an issue.

What do you mean like Running?

Running #4) Smaller, shorter guys of similar fitness will beat you. Heck they may not even be as fit!

Of course that's the benefit of being bigger, not as much need to run away.

The only people that beat you on the Erg are the ones that can produce more power than you, simple as that.

Now get in a boat and it's a completely different story, the Open's must produce more power to go at the same speed as the Lwts, and it balances out so close that Worlds Best Times have been held by the lwts from time to time.

No offense intended, but this sort of thing always looks like whining to me, and we could always do with less whining. Life's not fair, but would you really want it to be?

Paul,

Someone Pi$$ in your Wheaties yesterday morning? You are absolutely correct that the athlete who can generate more power over a distance on the erg will always win. I don't think Trail Runner was whining at all, just making an observation. It is also true that Bigger Taller guys with LESS fitness will sometimes beat you.

Rich

Hey there RTR, Why would someone have to pee in me wheaties for me to be "absolutely correct". TR certainly doesn't seem like a whiner to me, but that type of statement still looks like whining, regardless. TR also has admitted to getting his balance on the running courses so no harm done, he just should have mentioned that in the first place, IMO. After all, it is not LIKE running, which was my point, which seems to be confirmed.

With the power input being the direct determination of Erg Pace, I think that your claim that the "less fit" bigger taller person sometimes beats you is more subjective than objective (aka - whining). As an example, perhaps use 3 devices, Erg, Cycle Erg, Treadmill. 2 are very low impact, but one is not, so it favors the lower bodyweight athlete, the low impact exercises are more pure for extracting power generation performance. It's much like V02Max, there is the absolute value, and the relative (divided by Body Kg). As for power production (absolute), the relative value has little meaning, and the Erg is simply involved with absolute power output. So yes, if someone has twice the useful muscle mass and is only 3/4 as fit, they will probably end up ahead. But how would we determine they were only 3/4 as fit? Declaring that 125% = 100%?
Which one do you want to get your unconcious body out of a burning house? Mind you, the tiny one can't pick you up or even drag you very well. I can see it now, "cough, cough, don't you have a really fit little person to save me, they need a chance too, so leave me here and send them instead?"

Hmm, perhaps the market for really fit midget bodyguards has been completely overlooked, they would store so easily in the trunk. ***

I raced on a bicycle one summer, knowing quite well that aside from Time Trials, being 235lbs was not exactly "optimal", but instead of worrying about the "fairness", I just looked at the bright side, I got to ride with the fastest gals, and the view was better. Plus I was heading back to row and I had a pretty good idea that all the guys kicking my butt on the bike wouldn't have a prayer on the Erg or in a boat.

Sorry - Pet peeve.

Nike has it right - Just Do It!


*** No midgets were intended to be insulted or harmed in any way. It's a joke! If you are offended, I sincerely apologize for that, but continue to work on your sense of humor and we'll get along fine.

[Ducatista]

True fact: the only creature more miserable than a 13-year-old girl is a very tall 13-year-old girl.

Even all these years later, people grumbling about a height advantage is sweet, sweet music to my ears.

[trailrunner]

Actually, the only thing that really ticked me off was the rusty worn chain! Being a geek engineer I wonder how many watts were eaten before the flywheel. Now thats whining! Seriously, I appreciate everyones frankness. I expected some interesting commments. If we all someday end up at the WIRC, we shall have a beer together. And I won't have any excuses for sub par row!

[johnlvs2run]

Trailrunner,

I'm glad you had a good time. Congratulations coming so close to your PB in the process. Considering the circumstances, that is quite amazing indeed.

You are exactly correct that rowing is not like running, as running results depend entirely on fitness. A runner can be short and fit, tall and fit or whatever, and one's height doesn't affect the results. Either does weight, unless the person is not fit, though as with rowing on the water, the less weight for one's fitness the better.

Conversely, rowing on an erg depends mostly on one's height and weight, and then fitness within those categories. A tall heavy out of shape person can do quite well on an erg from the start. This makes it a great exercise for these people to do, and I am glad of this. I like to see everyone have something they can do and enjoy it.

The great thing about this for us is that we can do both of them.

[RowtheRockies]

[quote="PaulSWhat do you mean like Running?

Running #4) Smaller, shorter guys of similar fitness will beat you. Heck they may not even be as fit! [/quote]

Paul,

My apologies, I seem to have hit a nerve with you. If anything seems like whining, it is your statement. In TR's original thread, he stated that "Bigger Taller" athletes of Similar Fitness will always win. You then appeared to whine by stating that A smaller athlete that is less fit can beat a big fit guy in a running race.

No big deal, they are two different realms. Giants dominate erging and small guys dominate running (In general). OTW seems to be a middle ground where size is not as important.

Which one would you rather rely on to reach civilization and find help if your plane crashed in the middle of the Cascades thirty miles from the nearest civilization, the small fit guy or the big guy that is not as fit?

Rich

[trailrunner]

This got me thinking. OTW rowing. I've never done it. But listen to this. About 4 yrs ago an engineer that I worked with took a job in Berkley CA. I stopped over to buy his snowblower and he said, "Charlie, I know you row indoors. Do you want my shell?" (for free). I took it home, strapped to the roof of my minivan. A 37' Alden Shell, quite light, BUT here is the catch: This guy loved to tinker with human powered vehicles ( bikes, hydrofoils) and he reconfigured the cockpit and set up a pedal to propeller drive. He tried it once. It was potentially fast but unstable with out oars. Anyways, I would need to remove a small mast going thru the hull, patch it, reinstall the foot rest and sliding seat and one of the oar outrigger thingies would need to be cut and tig welded to get to the original angle. And of course get a set of oars. And perhaps get some instruction on a more stable craft.

So it has been just hanging in my garage waiting for resurrection.

[trailrunner]

Here is what it looks like. As you can see it needs some work. My biggest problem is I have too many unfinished projects.


I'm too lazy to learn to crop it down to size, and I don't want folks to have to scroll left and right. This thread is too interesting.

[dmtattny]

If we all someday end up at the WIRC, we shall have a beer together.

Disappointingly, this year the concession stands, which usually sell beer, did not. We'll have to work on that.

[johnlvs2run]

he reconfigured the cockpit and set up a pedal to propeller drive. He tried it once. It was potentially fast but unstable with out oars.

Maybe you can make it more stable, and pedal it on a lake?

That would be very cool!