Dumb question for OTW rowers

RowtheRockies · Post by **RowtheRockies** » February 19th, 2007, 6:10 pm

I have never rowed OTW although I would love to some day. I have always wondered how the rowers are able to keep their boats straight down the narrow lanes. Are good rower's strokes so balanced that their is little need to correct course? If they start getting a little close toward the lane markers do they just apply a little more pressure with one oar for a couple of strokes? I would think this would be more of an issue in 2's, 4's and 8's.

Rich

Ray79 · Post by **Ray79** » February 19th, 2007, 7:21 pm

It is probably like the old saying

"How do you get to Carnegie hall?" - "Practice"

You basically have it right though. In a single scull, a small difference in the pressure applied to each hand (or in a more extreme case altering stroke length of the individual oars) will have a large effect on the direction of the boat. A scull will change direction very quickly. Good scullers are able to avoid weaving from side to side by practice - I am not one of these people. It is best to line your stern up with some landmark in the distance and try and keep it there, at least then you know you are going sort of straight.

In a 2-, or 4-, there is a rudder for steering that is controlled by the foot of one of the rowers in the boat. Sounds simple? It isnt, and I am self confessed the worst steers person in the world. Again, practice leads to better steering and hence a better course.

In both cases the rowers can affect the course of the boat too, and in coxed boats the cox will sometimes call for a pressure change on one side to bring about a course correction. This will also happen in 8's particularly on a tighter course. I think I am right in saying that all 8's have to be coxed

This is all really for river courses with bends. On a straight 2km course for a good rower or a good crew who have trained together extensively, there will probably be little or no need for any form of steering bar minor adjustments

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » February 19th, 2007, 7:28 pm

All (well, almost all) boats have a skeg (small fin) to aid in straight tracking.

8+, 4+, and 2+ all have rudders and a little person riding along to do the steering if required.

Sculling boats, 4x, 2x, 1x generally do not have rudders, and are controlled through pressure on either side of the boat, the person in the bow seat is responsible for making the call for steering input and watching the course.

"Coxless boats", 4-, 2-, usually have a rudder that is controlled by the foot of one of the rowers. A special fitting allows the toe of one shoe to move side to side and that is attached to the rudder cable.

When on a buoyed course it is rather easy to focus off the stern and see that the buoys are remaining equally spaced off the stern. When on an open body of water it is common to sight on a distant object directly astern and keep it there, though one should check the direction of travel for obstacles from time to time.

The straight course is the easiest, it's far more complicated to negotiate a longer "head race" course that requires several turns.

Kinley · Post by **Kinley** » February 19th, 2007, 9:27 pm

PaulS wrote: though one should check the direction of travel for obstacles from time to time.

I folded my Alden Star in half failing to observe this rule. Didn't even hear the waves breaking over the ledge.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » February 19th, 2007, 9:55 pm

Kinley wrote:
PaulS wrote: though one should check the direction of travel for obstacles from time to time.
I folded my Alden Star in half failing to observe this rule. Didn't even hear the waves breaking over the ledge.

I've seen folding riggers, but never a folding boat

Must be a good story, do tell...

ancho · Post by **ancho** » February 20th, 2007, 7:14 am

Ray79 wrote:... Sounds simple? It isnt, and I am self confessed the worst steers person in the world. Again, practice leads to better steering and hence a better course...

Nope, the worst steers person in the world is me, and I have witnesses who will confirm it!
I know how to do to hit ALL the buoys on both sides of the lane during 2000m

I did last Spanish champs in the coxed pairs (my son Eric was steering). It takes a bit longer, but it's fine not to have to be thinking about making slalom...

Paul: At least in Spain, all 4x also have a rudder.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » February 20th, 2007, 11:22 am

ancho wrote: Paul: At least in Spain, all 4x also have a rudder.

Is that because they are also used as 4-? Our club has no completely dedicated 4x's so they have rudders but it's either locked in place or removed when the boat is being used as a 4x. Having a rudder on a 4x would probably work out quite nicely though, as long as the steerman didn't have a wandering foot.

We do have one exception at the Junior level, I think that all the 4x's are coxed. Extra safety measure for a rather fast moving boat.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » February 20th, 2007, 12:15 pm

Is that because they are also used as 4-? Our club has no completely dedicated 4x's so they have rudders but it's either locked in place or removed when the boat is being used as a 4x. Having a rudder on a 4x would probably work out quite nicely though, as long as the steerman didn't have a wandering foot.

That's what friends and I do when we go out in a quad. We tie it in place. The people I row with are also cyclists and very used to looking in mirrors. We say "We don't need no stinkin' coxswain" Of course bowseat is usually supposed to be in charge if there is no coxswain, but we all use mirrors and have a good view of the river, and feel free to call out a course change if the bowseat doesn't.

To answer the original question, beginners including me when I first started on the water, do tend to zig-zag all over the place. As Ray says, practice makes perfect--well not maybe perfect but good enough.

I really don't understand the resistance by so many on-the-water scullers or rowers in coxless boats to using mirrors. Usual cycling mirrors aren't adequate, but there are some cycling mirrors such as Take-a-Look that give a very good and wide view and can be adjusted to include the bow of the boat in the field of vision. I have avoided a large number of logs, buoys, etc. because I can see where I am going. Why would anyone want to keep turning the head every 15 strokes? It's more important to see where you are going, not where you have been, although of course you still need to keep track of where you've been in case a motorboat is coming towards you. For a non-cyclist, it could take some time to get used to, but once you've gotten used to a mirror, you'll never go back.

Coxswains are such special, fabulous people. We got to use an ex-varsity coxswain in our quad last fall in a head race. There is definitely an art to coxing. It's hard to describe, but if you ever get to row with a really good coxswain, it's an unbelievable experience and completely different from getting a rower to volunteer to be coxswain.

Byron

Kinley · Post by **Kinley** » February 20th, 2007, 1:17 pm

PaulS wrote: Must be a good story, do tell...

Great 'Round Gerrish Island Race in Kittery, Maine. Tried to find a link to a chart of the area, but having a little trouble figuring out the NOAA site. You'll have to trust me that the chart features lots of those little asterisks indicating rocks.

Anyway, it's a race, so the idea is to get to the finish line ASAP, and with a little local knowledge and steely nerves, it's possible to shorten the course a LOT by cutting to the inside of the ledges. Over the years I've done very well at this, and finished first overall four or five times (I forget exactly) despite never being anywhere near the fastest boat.

So last year the wind was howling, the chop was chopping, the swell was swelling, the waves were crashing and after a stern lecture about the importance of recognizing our limits, the competitors were sent off. There are three particular trouble spots on my short course, and after I had picked my way through the last (and worst) of these I --- erroneously, in hindsight --- heaved a sigh of relief and turned my mental attention to the finish line.

Well, a little later on I got up on an isolated ledge, a wave broke over me, and I landed in the water. When I turned my body toward the shell to climb back in --- ACK --- the bow forward of the cockpit was perpindicular to the rest of the boat

! The forward deck and hull had peeled apart, and chunks of foam flotation were drifting off.

It occurred to me that without flotation the boat was going down, and I had better start swimming for shore. Which I did. The shell did not in fact sink to the bottom, and was dragged back in a chase boat, so we had a chance to examine it. The bow had obviously hit the ledge head on & hard, which surprised me as I had been aware only of the wave washing over me, not of an impact. Overall, a sobering experience.

BTW .... it's funny you should mention folding riggers. The Star ended up in Ted Perry's dumpster, and it looks like I'll be rowing one of the new Aces this year.

>>>-------> Kinley

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » February 20th, 2007, 4:21 pm

Kinley wrote:
PaulS wrote: Must be a good story, do tell...
Great 'Round Gerrish Island Race in Kittery, Maine. Tried to find a link to a chart of the area, but having a little trouble figuring out the NOAA site. You'll have to trust me that the chart features lots of those little asterisks indicating rocks.

Anyway, it's a race, so the idea is to get to the finish line ASAP, and with a little local knowledge and steely nerves, it's possible to shorten the course a LOT by cutting to the inside of the ledges. Over the years I've done very well at this, and finished first overall four or five times (I forget exactly) despite never being anywhere near the fastest boat.

So last year the wind was howling, the chop was chopping, the swell was swelling, the waves were crashing and after a stern lecture about the importance of recognizing our limits, the competitors were sent off. There are three particular trouble spots on my short course, and after I had picked my way through the last (and worst) of these I --- erroneously, in hindsight --- heaved a sigh of relief and turned my mental attention to the finish line.

Well, a little later on I got up on an isolated ledge, a wave broke over me, and I landed in the water. When I turned my body toward the shell to climb back in --- ACK --- the bow forward of the cockpit was perpindicular to the rest of the boat ! The forward deck and hull had peeled apart, and chunks of foam flotation were drifting off.

It occurred to me that without flotation the boat was going down, and I had better start swimming for shore. Which I did. The shell did not in fact sink to the bottom, and was dragged back in a chase boat, so we had a chance to examine it. The bow had obviously hit the ledge head on & hard, which surprised me as I had been aware only of the wave washing over me, not of an impact. Overall, a sobering experience.

BTW .... it's funny you should mention folding riggers. The Star ended up in Ted Perry's dumpster, and it looks like I'll be rowing one of the new Aces this year.

>>>-------> Kinley

Indeed, quite an adventure.

Oh, do report on the Ace! I happened by the Echo site just the other day to find this addition to their previous offerings, looks very intriguing for an open water or training boat, especially with teh mention of improved ease of re-entry.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » February 27th, 2007, 7:57 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:
Why would anyone want to keep turning the head every 15 strokes?
Byron

15?! I thought that it should be about every 3 or 4. In fact, I usually checked at every second stroke in a single. In a quad you would usually go an awfully long way with 15 strokes. In fact, a lot of the semi-submerged debris is barely visible from just a few meters away, especially if there is a bit of chop. Once, in a race, I went right over a strip of clear plastic sheeting and it caught on the keel. I had to stop, back up a bit, and and turn a bit to get it loose. All of this in a head race with a college eight bearing down on me at race speed. To make for further embarrassment, it was the crew from my old Alma Mater. To make it even worse, my heart monitor took this opportunity to start beeping — after I had stopped. Evidently the event was stressful enough to kick my pulse up over the 160 that the monitor was set at. This was before the time when I found out that I had a heart problem, so it was no big deal, just a nuisance. I never used the monitor in a race again.

I doubt that it would have been easy to see that clear plastic even looking directly at it. At first I just wondered why I had slowed so drastically.

Bob S.

VHS_Johnson · Post by **VHS_Johnson** » May 10th, 2007, 9:05 am

Well, as mentioned, a Crew that has rowed together for a very long time usually seems to turn itself. But even in 8's things can get a little tricky with floating debris and... getting stranded. Our 4 is coxed from the bow (which is a nice change) so they can see a little better. But sometimes I wish I was allowed to have a mirror (instead of my coxswain screaming "HEAD IN THE BOAT!!!" because she can't always see everything. For example, at the NJ States at least five boats got themselves completely and totally stranded on this sandbar jutting out at least fifteen feet into the water. But generally if these obstacles are seen ahead of time it's easier for the cox to just call to one side or the other. Rowing with a broken fin is always a joy, but it's possible. I don't even want to think about steering myself. We can barely keep our 8 off of the lane markers sometimes it's so darn crowded. And it's always a pleasure to stop mid-2k and shove a buoy out of your five's rigger. -_-

Snail Space · Post by **Snail Space** » May 10th, 2007, 1:33 pm

I have never rowed OTW although I would love to some day.

Go for it. I spent a year taking my [then] 11yr old son down to the river every Sat/Sun to row with the school boat club. Every week I thought how wonderful it must be to row, and how ridiculous it was for a 49yr old to want to try it.

Eventually I went to my local rowing club, where I discovered that many people only start to row after they retire! I've had 5-6 trips in a practice tub. Last Sunday I had an unanticipated session in a single scull; I didn't fall in, but didn't make much forward progress either! What progress I did make was a clumsy zigzag which involved close scrutiny of alternating banks of the river! Great fun though.

I recently posted a 7:13 2K time and was promptly offered a seat in a Novice VIII in next Saturday's local regatta. I advised my invitor that I had never been in a racing boat before, so a practice trip in the VIII was convened for Tuesday evening. My second trip in the VIII will be in the race on Saturday!

So, Rich, give it a go without delay. You'll love it. I have been amazed by the friendliness and enthusiasm to help a newby that my local club has shown. Also, I've already discovered the pleasure of the camaraderie and competitiveness that rowing in a crew offers.

Cheers
Dave

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » May 10th, 2007, 1:35 pm

I've tried a mirror a few times and had problems with it. Too confusing and difficult to get it adjusted. I know I should keep at it and learn, but I keep forgetting to take it with me. I know I've lost time in head races because of steering issues. Especially at the BIAC regatta (south of San Francisco) which is harder to steer then the Head of the Chuck.

I have used a GPS. If I row the course once before hand, or even hug the lane lines rowing to the start, I can steer a good course without looking. Then I found out the GPS is illegal so now I can't use it!

ancho · Post by **ancho** » May 11th, 2007, 2:41 am

Snail Space wrote:
...

I recently posted a 7:13 2K time and was promptly offered a seat in a Novice VIII in next Saturday's local regatta. I advised my invitor that I had never been in a racing boat before, so a practice trip in the VIII was convened for Tuesday evening. My second trip in the VIII will be in the race on Saturday!

...

Wow!
During the race, take it easy (as far as you can), don0't try to push the boat all by your own, and concentrate on rowing together.
Get out fast, and don't let those motor boats catch you, you know!

And enjoy!
Ah, and don't forget to tell us how it went!

Concept2 Forum

Dumb question for OTW rowers

Dumb question for OTW rowers

Re: Dumb question for OTW rowers

Re: Dumb question for OTW rowers