What do you think of the LW / HW grouping?

[seat5]

I would rather see height catagories added for both light and heavy weight. The tall people with their long stroke have a decided advantage over those of us who are vertically challenged!

Pam

You win some, you lose some. I'm 5'11". Imagine me busting out a floor routine at a gymnastics meet. Heh, I made myself snort just thinking about it.

- Ann

Me, too! When I was in school back in the 70's, they didn't offer gymnastics until high school. I couldn't wait! Uneven bars! Hurrah! I would be the next Olga Korbut! Unfortunately, the year I was a freshman, I grew a full 9 inches between September and May. That's an inch a month. Not only was it almost impossible for me to make it through a doorway without hitting at least one side, the not very adjustable uneven bars hit me about the navel instead of at the hips when I tried swinging from the top one.

Rowing is pay back time!

[George Dunning]

I would rather come 4th to an 18yr old, 27yr old LW, and a 32yr old mother of 3 and have a race than win as a 48yr old HW where there is only me and some other guy competing. If it was just about the time then i can do that in the gym after all most erging is just Time Trials.

george

ps (no offense intended to 18yr olds, LW's, or mothers )

[Bo Bojsen]

I think it make more sense if there were more weight groups on the indoor erg? or weight by a person. I row on a kajakerg. You kan see it here:
http://vajda.dansprint.com/1/57/danspri ... meter.html
The display is orlmost simlyar to a PM3. We have to key in, our weight to the Kajakerg. display. its works fine.
I have for 2 weeks ago participate in competitions for kajakerg. evrybody was weight in, befoere competition. Ther was a big screen behind us where onlooker, see the race like on C2 race.
Its up to The Concept II company, and there Software Development, to do a key in, weight for a person.
If its works on kajakerg. it can be done to C2 erg too..

Bo

[igoeja]

The erg grouping mirror on-the-water criteria, two weight classifications, two gender classifications, and a stratified age classification. Although at the highest level the age groupings don't exist, they do exist for club rowers. The erg groups simply mirror the on-the-water groupings.

Although I'm in favor more and finer groupings for the erg, I'd wonder if adoption on a wide scale is likely. Essentially some people are asking for relative aerobic criteria, of performance specifically tied to weight or height. The height-weight calculator is similar, but this is somewhat biased to larger and heavier rowers. I've seen some really powerful small people, who's ability would seem mediocre if compared to the generic LWT grouping.

If someone really liked this idea, he would develop a website incorporating finely-grained comparison values, and which calculated relative performances, or provided more groupings for weight and height, then allowed ways of comparing values.

[Bo Bojsen]

Ther is some website incorporating finely-grained comparison values, and which calculated relative performances, or provided more groupings for weight

http://www.modest-sport.dk/cii_indoor_r ... et/vjf.htm

its a weighttable for C2 erg. you have to multiply your row by a weightfaktor.
its on a danisch side.

Bo

[igoeja]

Bo, I don't know if CII should, but it easily could, require a weight value, and could easily develop the queries to calculate relative performances. I assume it is matter of expense - although easy, it is fairly time consuming to modify the tables, queries, and web pages, along with implementing proper testing - and marketing. As a company, it would have to guage the effect, if any, of requiring weight values, as well as providing increased reporting.

[Ray79]

Why does everyone crave a level playing field where we are all plugged into and equation and then we are all equal??

This isnt the way life in general works so why try and make people feel better by eliminating all physiological differences with an equation.

I'm a Heavy lightweight, or a very light heavyweight - depending on what side of the bed I get out of in the morning, but not at the sharp end in terms of times in either class. But I'm sure with the right set of equations I could compare myself to Graham Benton or Heinrik Stephensen, but what would be the point? These 2 examples (and there are many more) are superb athletes, who obviously have a genetic make up (and work ethic when it comes to exercise) that is superior to mine when it comes to rowing - such is life, does it bother me - definately not - in fact I am in awe of people like that, and rightly so.

There are 2 weight/gender classes on the water, 2 weight/gender classes on the erg - leave it at that. Why does the whole world feel like we "ALL" have to be winners all the time. Its just like the cotton wool state of things where every child gets a medal on sports day - it didnt happen when I was at school and that isn't that long ago.

Rant Over.

[igoeja]

I'd wonder if the issue is leveling.

For years, one popular measure of fitness was relative aerobic capacity, and it is fairly good predictor or running performance for 10K's, and moderately so for other distance events. Another measure is absolute max, and from what I've read, rowing performance tends to be fall somewhere in the middle between relative and absolute.

A single measurement isn't very valid for guaging performance, at least of the relative kind, simply because large, and often massively overweight, individuals can pull good scores.

If you care about absolute on-the-water performance, you can focus on the kind of measurements that matter for you, or like some repeat the mantra that "ergs sink", but most people are not out for on-the-water competition.

What's wrong with looking at performance from other perspectives?

[dlholmes]

Concept 2 should incorporate a scale into the seat and make rows harder for heavier people. I'm just kidding, by the way. I rowed in highschool as a lwt against heavies and won more races than I lost, even on the erg. When it comes down to it, on the non-international level, a very fast lwt can, and often does, beat a fast heavyweight.

[igoeja]

The idea of gauging relative performance certainly wouldn't level the field at all. Personally, I enjoy data mining/manipulation, and with a concern for human potential, think looking at the data from a different perspective would be interesting.

Among the existing competitive class of erg rowers some would show a decreased performance, since they have good times because of mass, even if they are relatively inefficient from an aerobic perspective. Some small, highly-fit individuals would see their performance ranking increase, simply because they put out more power than would be expected for their size.

It wouldn't level the field, but it would mean a change in criteria, and, as stated before, it would not mean much for on-the-water performance, unless those classes changed as well. If the on the water classes didn't change, it is unlikely that the CII classes would change.

As an aside, I've sensed that some LWT's resent that HWT's dominate the sport - none here, just from reading - and some have argued for a smaller boat for LWT's, or at least have calculated the LWT per pound performance is similar to HWT's.

[RowtheRockies]

I think it make more sense if there were more weight groups on the indoor erg? or weight by a person. I row on a kajakerg. You kan see it here:
http://vajda.dansprint.com/1/57/danspri ... meter.html
The display is orlmost simlyar to a PM3. We have to key in, our weight to the Kajakerg. display. its works fine.
I have for 2 weeks ago participate in competitions for kajakerg. evrybody was weight in, befoere competition. Ther was a big screen behind us where onlooker, see the race like on C2 race.
Its up to The Concept II company, and there Software Development, to do a key in, weight for a person.
If its works on kajakerg. it can be done to C2 erg too..

Bo

Bo,

Wow, that is pretty cool. I have never seen such a thing before. While the legs don't get much of a workout, I bet you get a much better upper body workout than the C2.

Rich

[stroke_1t]

I think the current weight classes are fine for indoor rowing. There are two class for on water rowing, heavy and lightweight. The reason that the limit is 165 is because thats about as heavy as most lightweight rowers allow themselves to become in the off season, when most erg races are held. During on water racing the get back down to 70kg or 155lbs or whatever standard they adhere to. Weight classes are not about evening the playing field for everyone, if you want to win even the playing field for yourself and get faster. I know plenty of "small" heavyweights that work that much harder to keep up on the erg with heavy heavyweights and then kill them in a seat race because they don't sink the boat. Don't try to change the rules so you can win some male 169-173 pound, 6'0" erg class. Train harder, get faster. Some people are going to be better than you (unless your a certain danish or British freak), and trying to beat them is the best part of competition.

[Bo Bojsen]

i look around in c2 website, and they already have seen that there is a different betwen LWT's and HWT's in ergo.
http://www.concept2.com/us/training/too ... stment.asp
Its starts like this....
It is not unusual for a larger, heavier athlete to be capable of producing more power than their smaller teammate.

Bo