Cycling or Rowing?

Atorrante · Post by **Atorrante** » February 2nd, 2007, 9:29 pm

I have noticed that, although I'm not cycling too much because I'm rowing Monday thru Friday, my cycling speed and endurance haven't be affected. I take the bike in the weekend and ride it like if were training all weekdays for it. Is erging a good training for cycling? It is not the same for running. To run well I've to maintain regular schedules of running training. Maybe the target muscles are not the same.

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » February 2nd, 2007, 10:18 pm

I started rowing to a) improve CV fitness b) improve on the bike.

Through the autumn I cycled 9 time trials and PB'd on 8 of them. So something's working.

It's improved my hill climbing, there used to be a few where I couldn't get up without stopping. This last year I did Ditchling Beacon (on the London to Brighton) non-stop.

Afterburner · Post by **Afterburner** » February 2nd, 2007, 10:32 pm

Rowing and cycling are definitely complimentary, just look at the number of top level cyclists that are former rowers. I just joined a cycling team this winter and am going to start racing this spring but I can already keep up with the boys on my team out on the training rides. (note that we have some really really fast boys so this actually does kinda mean something) Heaven knows that it's not because of time in the saddle.
Citroen it's interesting that you find it helps hill climbing. I seem to do fairly well at that despite my weight which suprises me and my teammates. (I'm weighing in at about 150lbs right now, heavy for cycling!)
I'm hoping now that I'm getting back on the water that it'll help even more, we'll see.
Well, time to go do rollers, happy riding!

TurboCog · Post by **TurboCog** » February 3rd, 2007, 5:05 am

I mix training between the bike and erg and have come to the conclusion that one compliments the other. My base training this year has all been on the erg - yesterday I used the i-magic (bike turbo with PC program) and was pleasantly surprised to see performance gains although I have not used the bike for a month.

dennish · Post by **dennish** » February 3rd, 2007, 5:50 pm

Interesting thread for me. I have moved from erging /rowing to cycling as my primary competitive outlet. Last year I tried to do both at a high level for a masters competitor. Yes, the rowing/erging had great postive impact on my cycling. But the problem was I don't think I truly gave either one a true look. This year (actually in the summer last year, half way through the cycling season) ) I was asked to join a very strong masters cycling team based mostly on results I was getting from the primary thrust of my training being erging/rowing. Now that I have commmitted to full on cycle training it will be interesting to see a couple of things. 1) does having a strong erg/row background give me a good platform to build cycle fitness/strength. 2) How will my erg scores be impacted by the shift to making erg/row a secondary activity. Though results are far from in, thus far I'm finding that the erg workouts are not falling off at all, times comparing quite favourably with last year at this time even though I am training for cycling about 2 hour a day. I'm not sure where the cycling is at, as we have had snow on the ground for near on to 50 straight days and I have only been able to actually be on the road(not on a spin bike or trainer) for three times since Dec 16. With very few actual performances to base a judgment on I'm thinking strongly that the two disciplines are very complimentary. dennis

TurboCog · Post by **TurboCog** » February 3rd, 2007, 6:59 pm

I would guess that the CV work outs on the erg are of more benefit to the cyclist than the low spm strength stuff? Unless you are a track sprinter the extra muscle mass and strength is probably a handicap.
I've experimented with pace on the erg trying to replicate tempo riding - for me its about 2K + 8 for about 10K @ 75% HR range + resting.
Dennis - Please keep us posted when you get back on the road - best of luck with the Masters team

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » February 4th, 2007, 12:28 pm

My senior year in college I came off the crew season and did the senior southern NY district champinonship 100 mile bike race. (there are 47 disctricts in the us, but 3 in NY ) I had less then 700 miles on the bike for the year. I got third, one of my top finishes ever in ~8 years of serious bike racing.

Years later in grad school I didn't have much time for the bike so erged during the week, and did group rides on weekends. I was only doing a few races a year, but I did not slow down at all. I had no trouble mixing it up with the cat II racers and I was riding once or twice a week.

If you have the cycling skills before hand you don't really need to ride if you are rowing. However you need the cycling skills and you also need the endurance. SO when you ride alone a fixed gear is a good idea. If not make sure to practice high rpm often on the bike. Also practice other skills like descending and panic stoping (don't have time to go into this now, mayber later)

The other issue is endurance on the erg. You will not get the same endurance from the erg as you will on a 100 mile bike ride.

Also the endurance you get from bike riding is a big benifit to erging. Both the long rides and the quanity of intervals from a hard agressive group ride are rarely replicated on the erg.

I could write a lot more but got to go.

Nosmo

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » February 4th, 2007, 1:28 pm

Has anyone compared cycling watts versus rowing watts?

It is relatively easy for me to maintain 200 watts on a bike for very long periods of time (over 1hr). Maintaining 200 watts on the erg gets very hard after about 30 min.

I don't know if this is just perceived effort, or is cycling actually more efficient?

yehster · Post by **yehster** » February 4th, 2007, 2:15 pm

Dreadnought wrote:Has anyone compared cycling watts versus rowing watts?

It is relatively easy for me to maintain 200 watts on a bike for very long periods of time (over 1hr). Maintaining 200 watts on the erg gets very hard after about 30 min.

I don't know if this is just perceived effort, or is cycling actually more efficient?

I would hypothesize that because cycling is a continuous stroke, it is more efficient than erging. Also, the energy you put in during the recovery (hopefully minimal, but not zero) is completely wasted with respect to the energy input to the erg/measure wattage.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » February 4th, 2007, 2:46 pm

yehster wrote: I would hypothesize that because cycling is a continuous stroke, it is more efficient than erging. Also, the energy you put in during the recovery (hopefully minimal, but not zero) is completely wasted with respect to the energy input to the erg/measure wattage.

There is a lot of unmeasured energy involved in accelerating your body back and forth on the erg. Since this varies with the weight of the erger, there is no way for a monitor to measure it. All it can measure is the work of making the wheel spin. Note that this unmeasured energy input includes the drive as well as the recovery. Perhaps there have been estimates made of the energy used for the body movement. If so, such information might be available in the article about the physics of rowing. I don't have the time or patience to check that out. Another unmeasured loss of energy goes into the stretching of the bungee return cords. There might be a bit less energy lost in older machines with wornout bungees.

Bob S.

TurboCog · Post by **TurboCog** » February 4th, 2007, 7:02 pm

I can produce about 300w on my i-magic gym bike for about the same percieved effort and HR that it takes to do 200w on the erg. My own gym bike is reasonably close to results I've had done in the sports lab using a Kingcycle.
I'll look up some actual results for the bike and erg and see if I can draw a more accurate comparison.

AtlantaCyclist · Post by **AtlantaCyclist** » February 4th, 2007, 8:59 pm

I came to erging from a cycling background. I noticed that I wasn't terribly good at shorter efforts (2000 meters), but anything 30 minutes or longer I was decent right off the bat. After a few months of erging, I've found it has strengthened my hamstrings and my pedal stroke is better as a result (less of a dead spot).

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » February 4th, 2007, 9:31 pm

AtlantaCyclist wrote:I came to erging from a cycling background. I noticed that I wasn't terribly good at shorter efforts (2000 meters), but anything 30 minutes or longer I was decent right off the bat. After a few months of erging, I've found it has strengthened my hamstrings and my pedal stroke is better as a result (less of a dead spot).

I have noticed the same results. I have cut back my cycling for the last few months to do more erg rowing. I feel that my cycling has not deteriorated, and I actually feel stronger when on the bike. I have noticed improved hamstring flexibility plus some additional upper body strength/endurance, which helps in maintaining a comfortable position on the bike.

This issue was discussed on the Slowtwitch triathlon forum, and many triathletes don't believe that there is much benefit to erging. I personally feel that it is one of the best cross-training tools out there. If they don't appreciate it, that's their loss. I'll send a link from that forum for those of you who may be intersted.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi? ... t=10735380

trailrunner · Post by **trailrunner** » February 4th, 2007, 9:44 pm

I think the cycling process is more efficient for putting energy into a system; I can definetely put out more measured watts on the bike. But there is more to life than efficiency. I love both activities, and running too. The only downside is it spreads you kind of thin. So my plan now is to emphasize two of the three, changing the mix through the year. Each activity gets a break. Which is really important with running because of the pounding on the body.

becz · Post by **becz** » February 5th, 2007, 10:48 am

I took most of last year off from rowing and focused on riding (if anyone needs a suggestion on a road bike, I highly recommend Orbea). I hadn't done much riding for a number of years, and yet last year on organized rides I was usually waiting for others to catch up, especially on hills. I think rowing translates very well into cycling.

On the other hand, this Fall I decided to start spending more time on the erg, and it took several weeks to get back to where I had been before I stopped. One of the areas that cycling does little for is upper body strength, and yet the lats are very important in generating power through the middle of the stroke.

All in all I love to do both.