Near death experiences

nburke · Post by **nburke** » December 21st, 2006, 5:22 am

Interested in people's experiences pushing themselves to the limit. I generally row well within myself over longer pieces (5-15k), but in the relentless pursuit of the sub-7 2k, I have come pretty close ... nausea, dizzyness, out of body experiences etc. though have so far avoided complete hospitalization. I know it's not healthy and not clever, but sitting on the erg and programming in a 2k piece is just like pressing the self-destruct button for me!

Anyone else like to share their pain ???

The Hague Dragon · Post by **The Hague Dragon** » December 21st, 2006, 6:13 am

With every distance up to 2k the last strokes i see nothing, hear nothing.
Sometimes it's getting black the last metres, heartrate is over 190, can't feel my legs anymore.
I love indoorrowing.......

citiusaltiusfortius9 · Post by **citiusaltiusfortius9** » December 21st, 2006, 1:14 pm

Last year at CRASH-B's I had a fly-die race and did terribly but when i got off the erg I went over to a trashcan and fell down and passed out. I couldn't talk for a while after either. That's the hardest I've hit it... and it was an awful time too... over 8:00. I was also pretty sick which may have affected it. Yeah fun stuff.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » December 21st, 2006, 7:38 pm

I've had the experience a number of times over the years. Not often though. When I'm in top shape it happens much less often. When I'm not in shape I can't push my self hard enough to have that happen. After two trips to the emergancy room, I have learned to recognizing when I'm going to pass out and lie down before I do.

jbell · Post by **jbell** » December 22nd, 2006, 1:41 am

I'm sure it has happened much more on the boats than the ergs. During nationals last year someone passed out in a pair. As far as the erg, I have only pushed myself to puking, never to passing out. On the water, I felt as if I was going to pass out (headache) but I guess I was just dehydrated.

BlueCrew5or3 · Post by **BlueCrew5or3** » December 22nd, 2006, 10:47 am

I've only had these experiences on the erg. On the boat, I push myself to the limit, but for some reason don't experience what I feel on the erg. In a push to get a 7:15 2K done, I have had out of body experiences, headaches, and usually after the 2K I feel a lot of nausea.

skenaley · Post by **skenaley** » December 22nd, 2006, 11:51 am

A 2k is an extremely difficult sprint, and it is meant to push you beyond your limits. I have found that by incorporating 10x1k or 7x1.5 k sprints into you workout regime allows you to hold on and avoid the dreaded nausea and headaches. However, you will be hard pressed not to feel absolutely drained and as if the world is coming to an end.

nburke · Post by **nburke** » December 22nd, 2006, 1:19 pm

I had similar experiences at college as a member of a drinking club, the entry criteria for which was to drink 100 glasses of beer in 100 minutes. 1 glass a minute. Only schnaps glasses admittedly, but it still adds up to about 14 UK pints.

The requirement for pacing is very similar to that for a 2k erg. Everything is easy to start with. You have to hold yourself back a bit because you know there is pain to come. Half-way through you're swimming, but the legs are getting a bit wobbly. Then the final 500m is a traumatized affair, the technique goes to pot, nausea sets in, you sweat profusely. Finally you end up a gibbering heap lying in your own body fluids on the floor and have to be carried out of the room (to cheers all round!)

Recovery time is about 3 days (in both cases).

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » December 22nd, 2006, 6:22 pm

In the 1998 San Diego Crew Classic in the men's master E 8+ race, we had just crossed the finish line and the stroke stopped rowing instead of continuing at a paddle as would usually be done. The boat had a pronounced list to port, but suddenly lurched to starboard. At bow, I couldn't see what was going on at first, but finally realized that seat 6 was slumped with his head in the water. He was a heavy guy, but seat 5 managed to pull him up and the referee boat maneuvered in so that seat 6 could be transferred over to it. The referee boat also stopped by the adjacent 8 to pick up the stroke oar, who just happened to be a cardiologist who had previously treated seat 6. It seemed like an eternity for all this to happen, but there was really very little time lost. The full impact of the situation really hit me when I saw the cardiologist doing CPR on the stricken oarsman as the referee boat raced to the dock where the ambulance team was already waiting. As I heard later, they used the shock paddles and rushed him off to the ER. Fortunately, he came out of it, but he did have a problem with short term memory loss. For one thing, he didn't remember the events of the race and of the dinner the night before. He wanted us to tell him over and over again about all that had taken place. He recovered sufficiently to return to sailing which he dearly loved and even got back to rowing again, but not racing. He survived for another three years, but had another attack, just at the end of a workout. He was taken to the hospital immediately, but did not recover from that one.

Bob S.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » December 23rd, 2006, 10:41 am

Hi Bob,

That's a chilling posting. I am probably in a minority, but I would never criticize someone for "handling down." I think the nickname "Lay-down Sally" given to the Australian rower who quit rowing before the finish line is cruel and unnecessary. Who knows how she really felt? Was she in danger? Maybe.

It seems the most dangerous time is when the heart rate is near maximum and then you suddenly stop. If you do that, the heart rate can go even higher. I hate to see rowers just slump over after a hard piece. You should keep moving, no matter how awful you feel.

Byron

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » December 23rd, 2006, 11:53 am

Byron Drachman wrote:Hi Bob,

It seems the most dangerous time is when the heart rate is near maximum and then you suddenly stop. If you do that, the heart rate can go even higher. I hate to see rowers just slump over after a hard piece. You should keep moving, no matter how awful you feel.

Byron

In my college rowing days, I was always delighted to hear, "Way 'nuff," as we crossed a finish line. When I took up masters rowing, some forty years later, I was a bit dismayed to learn that it was now: "paddle pressure" and that I had to keep on rowing. I soon learned to appreciate the logic behind it however, and and became a strong convert of this practice. Even in the 2k erg contests, I usually just keep on pulling after the monitor counts down to zero. As a result, I was disturbed about the stroke stopping immediately at the end of that infamous race. But, like I said, I was bow, so I didn't really know what was going on aft.

Bob S.

LJWagner · Post by **LJWagner** » December 27th, 2006, 11:50 am

Jeez, guys. Sudden cardiac death happens most often during exercise if I remember right.

After hard exercise, more blood is out in the muscles. If you stop, I've read it described as something like a vacuum against which the heart must pull to get the blood back. By slowing down gradually the balance returns to muscles and organs, and you also relieve the lactic acid imbalance for improved recovery. You'll feel better sooner.

Why sudden death? A smaller partial artery clot can come loose from one location, and plug up another one. Major heart attack. 40% or so of first heart attacks are ... fatal. But probably less to very fit people. You can be extremely fit with partial blockages, but if they pile up together, you can have one big clot. Oops.

You can also strain a valve, rupture an aneurysm, or get tachycardia among other things. My Dad got tachycardia while sculling in a double with an adult granddaughter. She had to row him back a mile just to call 911. EMT's found them both on the ground. They both survived, but I don't think he ever rowed again. He was 80 and rowing for 15 years. He survived a very poor additional 8 years.

As you get a lot older, be a bit wiser.

If nothing else, have a bypass first, then you just worry about smaller survivable heart attacks. Breath deep.

Do your warm-ups. Primes the pump (the heart) helps it perform better with less strain.

Too bad they can't test to see if those last strokes before passing out are less useful. My experience with a fly and die let me know to pace it better, 400 meters barely able to move up and down the slide and keep my oar from being more of a problem than being unable to pull.

Bob S. and I have both had bypasses. Mine at 53. Two 99% blockages I was unaware of until I had sudden intense pain walking uphill at elevation.
I had been using my rowing machine the week before. I was probably real lucky I did not row hard at the time.

Sounds like every boat with masters rowers should have some nitroglycerin tablets, just in case.