Missing Drag Factor - Pm3 (ver. 90)

[[old] LBusch]

I installed a PM3 on my model A erg a couple of weeks ago and I can't find where it shows me the drag factor. The manual show it being on the "More Options" screen but my screen only shows "Utilities" and "Edit Custom List". The PM3 came with version 90 of the firmware which I believe is the latest. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone else out there have a PM3 on a model A?

[[old] BobD]

<!--QuoteBegin-LBusch+Dec 25 2005, 06:27 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(LBusch @ Dec 25 2005, 06:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I installed a PM3 on my model A erg a couple of weeks ago and I can't find where it shows me the drag factor.  The manual show it being on the "More Options" screen but my screen only shows "Utilities" and "Edit Custom List".  The PM3 came with version 90 of the firmware which I believe is the latest.  Am I doing something wrong?  Does anyone else out there have a PM3 on a model A? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />C2 only supplies the PM3 (a specially modified PM3 I might add) for retrofit to the Model C. I imagine your Model A does not have the sensor for obtaining the drag factor. <br />

[[old] rspenger]

<!--QuoteBegin-BobD+Dec 25 2005, 11:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BobD @ Dec 25 2005, 11:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-LBusch+Dec 25 2005, 06:27 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(LBusch @ Dec 25 2005, 06:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I installed a PM3 on my model A erg a couple of weeks ago and I can't find where it shows me the drag factor.  The manual show it being on the "More Options" screen but my screen only shows "Utilities" and "Edit Custom List".  The PM3 came with version 90 of the firmware which I believe is the latest.  Am I doing something wrong?  Does anyone else out there have a PM3 on a model A? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />C2 only supplies the PM3 (a specially modified PM3 I might add) for retrofit to the Model C. I imagine your Model A does not have the sensor for obtaining the drag factor. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It does work O.K. with the Model B as well as the C, but the A does not use the same wheel.<br /><br />Bob S.<br />

[[old] shorttrack]

I've retro fitted a pm3 on my B,the drag factor is at 210.That's the lowest I can go.Any suggestions?Changing the cog setting doesn't change it to much.

[[old] John Rupp]

Moving the chain from one cogwheel to the other does not change the drag factor, but it does change the resistance.<br /><br />What is the drag factor reading with the damper open, and with the damper closed?

[[old] LBusch]

C2 just started offering the PM3 as a retrofit for the Model A in November of 2005. I realize that I am probably one of the first people to purchase the upgrade. The PM3 is supposed to calculate the drag factor during every recovery. In fact it shouldn't be able to accurately measure the distance without it. Since the monitor seems to be working just fine I assume that it is calculating the drag factor I would just like to know what it is.

[[old] c2jonw]

Hi LBusch,<br />The PM2 and PM3 do not show the drag factor when set up for the Model A. The main reason to be able to view the drag factor is to fine tune the damper setting to achieve the same resistance or feel between machines. The Model A doesn't have a damper. Resistance is altered by changing which of the five (or six) sprockets the chain is on, which would have no effect on the drag factor. The DF is being calculated and updated every stroke, but we did not feel it would be meaningful to display it since there is no practical way to change it. <br />We will include a note regarding this in the PM3 manual. Sorry for the misunderstanding. JonW

[[old] LBusch]

<!--QuoteBegin-c2jonw+Dec 27 2005, 12:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(c2jonw @ Dec 27 2005, 12:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi LBusch,<br />The PM2 and PM3 do not show the drag factor when set up for the Model A. The main reason to be able to view the drag factor is to fine tune the damper setting to achieve the same resistance or feel between machines. The Model A doesn't have a damper. Resistance is altered by changing which of the five (or six) sprockets the chain is on, which would have no effect on the drag factor. The DF is being calculated and updated every stroke, but we did not feel it would be meaningful to display it since there is no practical way to change it. <br />We will include a note regarding this in the PM3 manual. Sorry for the misunderstanding.    JonW <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Thanks JonW,<br />I realized that there was no way for me to adjust the drag factor but I didn't understand why I couldn't find it on the monitor, until now.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-LBusch+Dec 27 2005, 03:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(LBusch @ Dec 27 2005, 03:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-c2jonw+Dec 27 2005, 12:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(c2jonw @ Dec 27 2005, 12:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi LBusch,<br />The PM2 and PM3 do not show the drag factor when set up for the Model A. The main reason to be able to view the drag factor is to fine tune the damper setting to achieve the same resistance or feel between machines. The Model A doesn't have a damper. Resistance is altered by changing which of the five (or six) sprockets the chain is on, which would have no effect on the drag factor. The DF is being calculated and updated every stroke, but we did not feel it would be meaningful to display it since there is no practical way to change it. <br />We will include a note regarding this in the PM3 manual. Sorry for the misunderstanding.    JonW <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Thanks JonW,<br />I realized that there was no way for me to adjust the drag factor but I didn't understand why I couldn't find it on the monitor, until now. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you really want to see a Model A drag factor, you could Set up ErgMonitor for a free trial and it will report it to you.<br /><br />See the web site below for details if interested.

[[old] ekubal]

<!--QuoteBegin-shorttrack+Dec 26 2005, 03:32 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(shorttrack @ Dec 26 2005, 03:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've retro fitted a pm3 on my B,the drag factor is at 210.That's the lowest I can go.Any suggestions?Changing the cog setting doesn't change it to much. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Concept 2 used to make something called a "speed ring," which was a ring of plastic that attached to the outside of the damper on the model B. A speed ring enables you to reduce the drag factor to a level that more closely resembled the feel of rowing on the water. I don't know if these are still available, but my old model B (now used by my dad, as I have moved on to a model D) has one, and it definitely helps if, like me, you prefer to row at a low drag factor. Try contacting the company to see if they can dig one up for you.

[[old] c2jonw]

Yes, we still have them. Some strategically placed duct tape will also work......JonW

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-c2jonw+Dec 29 2005, 08:31 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(c2jonw @ Dec 29 2005, 08:31 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, we still have them. Some strategically placed duct tape will also work......JonW <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />But it's not nearly as nice looking. <br /><br />Jon,<br /><br />Do you still have the "plastic paddles" that would go on the spokes of a Model A? I was thinking that it would in fact be possible to manipulate the DF of the A by adding them (or removing, quite likely the same effect of reducing the DF). Of course this would only be valid when using the electronic PM's.

[[old] c2jonw]

Hi Paul, <br /> <br />Nice looking? What's that got to do with it? Duct tape is great stuff.<br /><br />Yes, believe it or not I think we still have the A fan blades- part #54 at $.50 each. You'll want to put them on in evenly spaced sets of three so you don't throw the flywheel out of balance. There are 36 spokes on the wheel, and we have the 9 blades evenly spaced. You might be able to put an extra one in between every third blade. Obviously (or maybe not so obvious) you will reach a point of diminishing returns- the blades block one another to some extent, so as they get closer together the drag eventually will decrease. Not sure where that point is. <br /><br />Happy New year.......Jon

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-c2jonw+Dec 29 2005, 12:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(c2jonw @ Dec 29 2005, 12:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Paul, <br />  <br />Nice looking? What's that got to do with it? Duct tape is great stuff.<br /><br />Yes, believe it or not I think we still have the A fan blades- part #54 at $.50 each. You'll want to put them on in evenly spaced sets of three so you don't throw the flywheel out of balance. There are 36 spokes on the wheel, and we have the 9 blades evenly spaced. You might be able to put an extra one in between every third blade. Obviously (or maybe not so obvious) you will reach a point of diminishing returns- the blades block one another to some extent, so as they get closer together the drag eventually will decrease. Not sure where that point is. <br /><br />Happy New year.......Jon <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Thanks! Yes, that's what I was thinking. I can't imagine the desire to increase the DF, especially with the smallest sprocket available. Removing them seemed a bit problematic as I wouldn't want to take out the staples, but adding looked promising. Perhaps when it warms back up outside I'll set up a relevant experiment for all those Mod A folks that still like the noise that goes along with the workout. <br /><br />Happy New Year, back at ya!