Newbie: How am I doing and where do I go from here?

texasdiver · Post by **texasdiver** » October 25th, 2006, 2:21 pm

Hi everyone:

I've had my Concept2 for 2 weeks now and am getting comfortable and settled into using the machine. However I really don't have any sense of where I'm at now in terms of fitness and where I should be going from here.

I'm a 42 year old 5'10" 225 lb male and figure I am at least 50 lbs over my ideal weight. I have a large frame and was about 165 when I played football and ran track in high school when I was at my lifetime peak fitness.

I am starting a serious diet and exercise regime to get me there and bought the Concept2 because I discovered that with my curent body weight and aging joints I can't take the running like I used to. I've already lost 16 lbs over the past month of which only the past 2 weeks included rowing so I figure I'm doing something right.

My fitness objectives are to lose weight and gain overall fitness. I don't have any interest in competition or anything like that, I just want to see how fit I can get. Especially as cholesterol and hypertension are heriditary issues in my family.

After building my workouts and pace over the past week I am now rowing comfortable 10k rows in 45 minutes. I start out slow at about 2:25/500m pace for the first 5 minutes or so then slowly build to a pace of about 2:10/500m with a stroke rate of about 32/min at which point I just settle into a zone and row for about 35 minutes until the last 5 minutes or so when I pick up the pace to about 1:50/500m and row hard to exhaustion. I have the resistance damper set to level 4.

During the duration of my row my heart rate slowly builds to the 150-160 range then towards the end when I pick up the pace it gets up into the 170-180 range, usually ending around 175-180.

I feel like I am rowing at a rigorous but comfortable pace that I could easily maintain for longer than 45 minutes. At this point I'm just doing 45 minute rows which come out slightly longer than 10k because that seems a decent workout. Based on my age the charts say I should be working out at a bit lower heart rate. But what I am doing now feels good and it's about the pace I'd be doing naturally without a heart rate monitor.

My questions are the following:

1. Where am I at right now in terms of fitness? I don't have the slightest idea where a comfortable 45 min 10k row puts me in terms of fitness level. I'd be estatic to be able to RUN a 45 min 10k this easily but I don't have any idea how rowing equates to running. What would be considered good shape for a person my age and size?

2. Where should I go from here in terms of gaining more sophistication and fitness with my workouts. Longer? More intensity? More variation? I'm rowing now about 6 days/week the same 45 minute row every day. I just put on the TV and zone while I work out and that works fine. But I feel like I should have a better thought-out training plan and schedule figured out.

Thanks for any advice.

-Kent

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » October 25th, 2006, 4:31 pm

Take the HR charts and throw them in the toilet. http://faculty.css.edu/tboone2/asep/Robergs2.pdf

My resting HR is 45, the highest I've seen on the erg is 186. I'm 43 yrs old and 5'7.5" tall. I weigh 161lb.

1. You're a bit fitter than my eighty year old friend Gordon. He's not got your level of endurance (he rows 3K starting at 2:25, ending at 2:10). He never rows more than 5K in any one session.

2. http://www.concept2.co.uk/weightloss/interactive.php you're 102.3Kg, you should aim for 80Kg (perhaps even go lightweight - 75Kg). Entering a weight loss target of 28Kg for level 1 fitness that generates a 32 week training plan.

I've never tried rowing using that interactive weightloss plan, but it looks relatively sensible and gives you a mixed programme. (You need a mixed plan as it would get very tedious rowing 45mins per day.)

texasdiver · Post by **texasdiver** » October 25th, 2006, 4:48 pm

Just got off the machine after another 45 minute row. Today I concentrated more on getting good leg drive and managed to bring my stroke rate down to about 29-30/min and my pace to between 2:10 and 2:05 without feeling like I was working harder. My 10k time ended up around 43 minutes so I must have seen some form improvement. I didn't try to pick it up at the end so I could probably have done around 41 or 42 min without too much additional effort I think. I havn't actually tried to do any PRs, I'm just rowing at what I think feels like a comfortable pace.

I'll look at the interactive weight loss program and give it a try. The politics coverage on CNN is keeping me from going totally bored with the 45 minute row so I'm not minding the time yet. I feel like I could easily go an hour if I needed to. Take away the TV and give me a blank wall to stare at and I might no feel the same.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » October 25th, 2006, 6:18 pm

What you are doing and your progress sound quite good.
You should try to row at a slower rate (20-24 spm), but maintaining similiar paces.
You can log your workouts and rank your times on the C2 online ranking, so you may compare your progress with others.
There is also a weight loss thread in this forum, where you will find similiar minded people, usefull information and motivation.

ATTENTION! Once you're hooked, theres no way back!

Have fun!

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » October 25th, 2006, 8:03 pm

ancho wrote:What you are doing and your progress sound quite good.
You should try to row at a slower rate (20-24 spm), but maintaining similiar paces.

I strongly agree with Ancho on the rate. A rate of 32 or even 29-30 is quite high for a 10k, even if you were trying to set a record. Certainly much too high for an ordinary training session. If you have a problem with slowing the rate, go slower on the recovery part of the stroke. Put the power into a quick drive and relax on the recovery. The only fast part of the recovery should be getting your hands away on past your knees — before you begin to raise your knees. After that, take it easy coming up the slide — don't rush it.

Apparently, you are including a warmup period in the early phase of the 10k. What do you do for a cool down afterwards? If you don't do a separate cool down, you would be well advised to taper down in that last five minutes instead of picking up the pace.

Bob S.

texasdiver · Post by **texasdiver** » October 25th, 2006, 8:37 pm

Thanks guys

I'll work on going slower. I"m doing what feels comfortable right now so I suspect I have some form issues to work out if it is more correct to be going slower. I think instinctively I feel like I'm more efficient with a faster recovery because I catch the flywheel while it is still spinning faster and can keep it spinning at a higher rate with less effort with faster strokes. But obviously the objective here is fitness and not spinning a wheel.

I'll download my workouts so far and see about posting them on the online log.

Yes, I row slow and ease into the workout as a warmup. I don't reset the timer or anything so that just counts as part of my workout. I'm probably not going full pace until about 5 minutes in. I also do a cool-down period at the end but I'm not counting it in the times because I go so slow and just watch my HR come down on the monitor.

Does anyone on these forums ever take video of themselves rowing and then post it for comments/critique? Seems like that might be a useful thing to do for a newbie like myself before I develop too many bad habits that get hard to break down the road.

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » October 25th, 2006, 10:29 pm

First I think rowing 10ks to start is a great way to get going, and your times sound respectable for starting. If your goal is weight loss and fitness, I think that is a pretty good benchmark row to do regularly. For me pushing it to an hour every now and then helps a lot with weightloss, but rowing an hour straight is as long as I like to go (unless training for a marathon).

Although you say you are not interested in "competition", many of us measure ourselves in the rankings or in races, or in the nonathalon distances, etc in order to keep motivated. So you may want to consider that some day. I think it is mentally easier to negative split a row, going faster at the end. I think that is fine, but also work on holding a steady split for the whole 10k, try something in the 2:10 range, and work down over time from there, looking at a mid range goal of a sub 40 minute 10k (so a 10k at 2:00 pace or better) this season (through April 2007). Not sure you can get there, but you should be able to get close at least (2:05?).

People do post videos and get feedback, although you are putting yourself out there in public. It is a good idea to get your technique right from the start. To follow up on what Ancho says, unstrap your feet and row "strapless". You should find your stroke rate drops down a lot. Many of us do all of our training rows "strapless". Doing that one thing may help sort of some major issues with your stroke right off the bat.

jamesg · Post by **jamesg** » October 26th, 2006, 8:20 am

TD, you asked two questions:

1 Where am I now as to fitness?
Probably there's no unique definition of fitness; but a sure sign is resting heart rate, the fitter the lower. Normal unfit people have around 72; there are some on this forum at 40.
2 Where now? You go to technique. It may seem paradoxical, but if you want to get fit, you need technique: row well and make every single stroke count. Back straight, long strokes, strong positions; and in your case, pull long hard smooth relaxed strokes at 20-22 rather than short weak ones at 30. Not all of a sudden, tendons take time to get tough, and injury stops us dead.

TabbRows · Post by **TabbRows** » October 26th, 2006, 12:04 pm

If you don't have access to other rowers who know the proper technique for erging and can watch you and offer tips to improve, then you should visit Xeno's website http://www.gorow.com/ and order his training dvd's. They also contain some great otw rowing video that can help pass the time on those longer workouts.

And keep it up! You're doing great!

tomhz · Post by **tomhz** » October 26th, 2006, 3:20 pm

Citroen wrote:Take the HR charts and throw them in the toilet. http://faculty.css.edu/tboone2/asep/Robergs2.pdf

Thanks for the link.

Tom

texasdiver · Post by **texasdiver** » October 26th, 2006, 3:51 pm

Thanks guys.

Just finished my row today trying to put into effect the techniques that you have been suggesting. The no feet in the straps and slower pace. What a big difference.

This time I rowed a 10k in 42 min and found it relatively easy to maintain a pace of between 2:05 and 2:10 with a stroke rate of 24. I concentrated on getting more explosion out of my leg drive and then relaxing and going slow on the recovery stroke. I was definitely more whipped at the end though using this slower pace.

I think I was originally trying to approach rowing more like cycling and trying to spin the flywheel rather than develop a power stroke. I'm coming into rowing from a base of cycling and I needed to get my cycling "spinning" technique out of my head and focus on the power drive of the rowing stroke.

By the way, how exactly does the resistance damper work relative to the computer? When I increase the resistence what is the effect on the computer? Is it like increasing the gear on a bike (or length of the oar) so that I'm getting more distance out of each stroke with a higher resistance level? Or am I simply adding more drag to my imaginary boat?

SirWired · Post by **SirWired** » October 30th, 2006, 10:57 am

texasdiver wrote:By the way, how exactly does the resistance damper work relative to the computer? When I increase the resistence what is the effect on the computer? Is it like increasing the gear on a bike (or length of the oar) so that I'm getting more distance out of each stroke with a higher resistance level? Or am I simply adding more drag to my imaginary boat?

It is like changing the gear on a bike/length of your oar. The computer re-calibrates the PM with every stroke by measuring how fast the flywheel slows down between strokes. Look for the articles on the C2 website about "drag factor". The upshot of this is that a 2:00 split is more-or-less a 2:00 split, it doesn't matter if you are using a vintage Model A or a fresh-from-the-C2-factory Model E.

The PM knows how much the flywheel weighs, therefore how much energy it takes to accelerate it. By knowing the drag factor, it knows how much of your stroke is being "burned" due to drag, and can add it back to bring it to some "standard value" meant to vaguely simulate times in a scull.

Of course, the computer can't compensate for a stiff chain, bad seat rollers, a stiff shock cord, etc., which is why C2-sanctioned regattas use brand-new machines. While those differences might be irrelevant for training purposes, they can make a difference between first and second in a race.

SirWired