noise & D vs. E

Stonewaly · Post by **Stonewaly** » October 10th, 2006, 10:45 am

Hi,

Newbie here. Been working out (running & lifting) for the past 3 months to get back (and stay) in shape. Going well, but with the New England winter approaching I'd like to avoid any excuses to skip the cardio during the cold months. Very seriously considering buying a C2 Model D or E not only for the amazing workout (tried the D last week & loved it), but also the sheer quality of the product and strength of this community. Here are my questions, any/all thoughts are much appreciated.

1) Noise: I live in a 2nd floor apartment where I'm able to hear people above and below moving around. As I'd be using the Erg mostly btw. 6:30-7:30am, will the D or E be quiet enough not to wake the neighbors? Also, is there a noticeable difference in noise level btw the D & E?

2) D vs. E: Considering I'd definitely want the heart monitoring functionality, the Model E w/ PM4 is $300 more than the D/PM3. Is it worth it? I mean, I'm definitely not heading toward professional rowing, but part of me feels that if I'm willing to spend $955 (for the D/PM3 w/ $65 Heart Monitor + $40 shipping), why not spring for $1255 (incl. shipping) to get the upgraded E? Does this make sense? Or there not really much functional difference between the two models (e.g., it's mostly cosmetic & my $300 is better spent elsewhere)?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to much Erg-ing soon.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » October 10th, 2006, 11:06 am

From a value standpoint with the E you get a couple more things, Suunto type HR (apparently more robust than Polar), The PM4 (which will cost quite a bit to upgrade if you ever choose to), Power Generation/recharge (you may never need to buy a battery for a Mod E, not that I'm unhappy with just a bit over 3 years of battery life on my D, and still going [58%])

So if the $300 isn't stretching the budget uncomfortably, it seems to be completely justified in machine differences.

I used a Mod B in a simlar apartment situation and it was marginal, however the C was more quiet and the D&E are the most quiet so far. You should have no trouble with either.

Oh, and don't forget to get a CBreeze...

flan48 · Post by **flan48** » October 10th, 2006, 11:11 am

Hi Stone,
I would say that it always good to save some money

Also, as you are in a apartment, spacial limitations are a factor. Please therefoe remember that the C2 D has a smaller footprint when stored.

With the improved "noisiness" of the D and E models, you should not be bothering your neighbors.

Best regards

Stonewaly · Post by **Stonewaly** » October 10th, 2006, 11:26 am

All good points - Thanks for the comments. Now I just have to weigh the issues & decide! Hope to be posting to actual row-related topics soon.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » October 10th, 2006, 11:55 am

I row on a model D.
I used to erg in my flat, and had no complaints from the neighbours.
Lately I erg on the balcony, and a neighbour has complained about the noise when rowung late night, so I have had to change my habits

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » October 10th, 2006, 12:11 pm

You're leaving out one of your choices:

D w/ PM4 which appears to be $1040 (includes PM4 & heart belt + $40 shipping), instead of the two you've ID'd.

D / PM3 which you've listed at $955 (includes $65 for heart monitor + $40 shipping) or

E w/ PM4 at $1255 (includes $55 shipping).

Seems to me that there were posts here about a D2 w/ PM4, but that doesn't seem to be what's offered...not sure what's up about that, but you might want to call C2 and ask.

Alissa

hernan1304 · Post by **hernan1304** » October 11th, 2006, 12:44 pm

We have a model D 1 in our bedroom in a small apartment, no complaints from the neighbors, even at odd hours. To give you an idea, when my wife is rowing in the bedroom with the door closed, the noise that comes through the door to the living room is negligible. If you're separated by a wall (as you will be from your neighbors) it should be a non-issue. As far as your neighbors above and below, again a non-issue. Unless you're doing something wrong, the erg doesn't "impact" the floor, so there's no banging to bother them. If you want to be even more at ease, get yourself a thick rubber mat (like the ones you can get for treadmills) - that will absorb vibration and damp noise. Good luck!

Stonewaly · Post by **Stonewaly** » October 11th, 2006, 1:51 pm

Excellent. It sounds like I don't have anything to worry about re: the noise.

@Alissa: I'd left out the D/PM4 cause for some reason IMHO, $215 seemed like a less meaningful difference than $300. i.e., if I was willing to go for the D/PM4 there'd be less of an argument for not just going for the E. Also, I prefer to deal in round #s if possible

Thanks again to all. Though probably exorbitant as a lump sum, I'll likely buy the E. I figure given both the amount of time I plan on using the machine and the expectation it will last for years problem-free, the significance of the extra $300 reduces to almost nothing.

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » October 11th, 2006, 2:16 pm

I don't understand what the PM4 gives you over the PM3, or what the E gives you over the D. The PM4 adds the sunto monitoring and the wireless racing. But otherwise it is the same display? Maybe I am missing something about the PM4. But I see that as for gyms where multiple ergs could be hooked up together, not home users. the battery life of a PM3 on my model C is measured in years, so I can't see that as an issue either. The E is higher than the D, but I am not sure if it is quieter? So that difference may not matter to you either.

If you really have an extra $300 to spend, I think the money is far better spent on rowpro or erg monitor for your computer, and either of those would blow away any difference between the PM3 or PM4.

Or that $300 gets you are really nice iPod, which again I think is worth far more than any dif between the D and E.

Stonewaly · Post by **Stonewaly** » October 11th, 2006, 4:28 pm

More food for thought, thanks! I hadn't considered the cost of software and/or an mp3 player, which are definitely worthwhile given the time I hope to spend using the erg. A great lesson in True Cost analysis.

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » October 11th, 2006, 7:46 pm

Here are a few other things I've heard that you might want to consider:

1. Model D (w/ PM4) will be used at indoor races. Notwithstanding that the Model E is the "newest", it is not supplanting the Model D, but rather addressed to a different audience.

2. Model E's "height" was intended to address concerns of those who have indicated that they either have difficulty getting down to (or getting up from) the seat on the Model D.

3. Model E's height also expected to be more acceptable in a health club environment since it will be easier to see the TV. (someone really said that!)

4. The Model D's monitor arm is adjustable. The monitor arm on the E is stronger, and since not adjustable, is expected to be less damaged in a health club enviornment.

5. PM4 uses ANT (digital) tech instead of Polar (analog tech) for connections, and is less liable to interference with other devices using the same household frequencies. PM4 is incompatible with Polar heartrate devices you may already have.

Good luck on whatever you decide!

Alissa

Stonewaly · Post by **Stonewaly** » October 11th, 2006, 9:42 pm

5. PM4 uses ANT (digital) tech instead of Polar (analog tech) for connections, and is less liable to interference with other devices using the same household frequencies. PM4 is incompatible with Polar heartrate devices you may already have.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood you or the page cited below, but the following text confused me as it seems to conflict w/ your comment:

(via http://www.concept2.com/us/products/monitors/pm4.asp)

Heart Rate Monitoring: Built in wireless compatibility with Suunto heart rate technology (chest belt provided), offers improved transmission and eliminates interference from nearby rowers. Also compatible with Polar heart rate technology, if optional Polar receiver is installed (available from Concept2).

Looks like Concept2 is saying if one already has a Polar HRM (which implies they also have the receiver; required for use w/ PM3), it will work w/ the PM4. I totally agree w/ you that it doesn't make sense to get the PM4 just for the included HRM (especially if you already have a Polar), but it does appear to be compatible w/ either system. Also, with the language on Concept2's site about PM4's increased capacity for "future expansion & features," it seems there will be PM4-only feature updates in the future. For a geek like me, that's something to get excited about.

With all the great feedback received, information read & thinking done, I think the best C2 for me is the D/PM4. I'll be placing my order tomorrow (!). You've all been so helpful; much obliged.

brianric · Post by **brianric** » November 13th, 2006, 6:28 pm

I live on a second floor one bedroom apartment and row on a Model D. In 2.5 years I only had a problem with one neighbor, who had her son sleeping on the couch in a one bedroom apartment downstairs from me. I normally row at 1 AM, and was so glad to see her move out. The bedrooms in the apartment complex are at the opposite end from the living room, and no other neighbor has complained. The one with her son even complained that I was running the dishwasher at 3 AM. The noise she heard was my electric razor. I told her to pack sand.