Boat Shoes on a Model D?

hernan1304 · Post by **hernan1304** » October 1st, 2006, 9:21 pm

I have a Model D and hate how the foot straps keep loosening while I row... I was wondering whether anyone has experimented with taking off the FlexFoot boards and modifying the erg to attach shoes like those you would find on a racing shell. Does anyone know whether C2 sells aftermarket foot plates for this purpose? Is there maybe something I'm overlooking that would make this solution impractical?

I was hoping to be able to attach a pair of Vespoli shoes like these:

Which, on a boat, mount to a plate like this:

I was thinking I might even be able to buy a plate like that, cut it in half, and drill the right holes to attach it to the erg. Dumb idea?

Thanks in advance for your comments, any input would be much appreciated!

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » October 2nd, 2006, 11:20 am

You shouldn't even need the plate, just get the shoes and screws, make a hole pattern template, make sure to set the "toe out" angle for what is comfortable for you, and attach the shoes directly to the footplate.

Perhaps give C2 a call about how drilling through the footplate might effect the warranty, if that is a concern.

I frankly don't understand why you would want to do such a thing, but solutions are not difficult to provide.

My long term suggestion for you would be to fix the problem causing the strap loosening, i.e. learn to balance the forces at the finish so you arrest your bodies momentum using the resistance of the handle instead of the straps.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » October 2nd, 2006, 11:42 am

To avoid the straps loosening, which used to happen with some C models, pass the end of the straps again through the clasps, so there is a "double layer".
Used to work fine for me.

And keep it smooth!

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » October 2nd, 2006, 11:55 am

hernan1304 wrote:I have a Model D and hate how the foot straps keep loosening while I row.

Why bother to even use them? I just put my feet on top of them.

Bob S.

c2jonw · Post by **c2jonw** » October 2nd, 2006, 1:33 pm

Drilling and attaching the shoes directly to the footplate should be easy to do on the C or early model D, which have bent and welded aluminum footplates. The newer model D and the E both have injection molded foot stretchers that have the footstrap encircling the entire footplate structure, and attaching only to the cover piece would likely result in pulling the cover off. Note we have a slightly thicker footstrap now which is a better fit with the buckle, resulting in much less loosening. C2JonW

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » October 3rd, 2006, 11:04 am

I've been using swing slings lately.
As long as you don't do a race they work quite well.
swing slings:
http://www.ps-sport.net/SwingSling.htm
Pieter

hernan1304 · Post by **hernan1304** » October 3rd, 2006, 1:17 pm

Thank you all for your replies, they've been very helpful in thinking about this.

I'm pretty sure my rowing is smooth, I used to row in college, and remember having the same problem with the model Cs. I think the straps loosen at the catch (when my feet are bent), not at the finish. Of course you are all right in pointing out that the smart thing to do would be to attempt to fix the strap problem (like getting the new thicker straps, or double-looping), but now that I've had my crazy idea, smart alternatives are out the window

I really like the way the shoe setup on a boat feels. I'm thinking on the erg it would be kind of like using clipless shoes on a bike - sure, regular pedals work fine, but clipless makes you one with the machine.

The reason I was thinking of using a plate is that I'd really rather not drill through the footplate, especially considering that there are already four convenient holes pre-drilled into each footplate for the current binding system.

My first idea, then, was to use the four existing holes to attach the plate that the shoe is attached to, perhaps using wingnuts to make it easier to take off.

Unfortunately, I ran into a very important constraint - my wife uses the erg all the time as well, and although she's onboard with the idea of using shoes instead of straps, she's not too keen on the prospect of having eight wingnuts to unscrew and screw back every time we change between my shoes and hers.

So now I'm going crazy trying to find someone that manufactures a quick-release system for attaching shoes to footstrechers, which would solve my problem since I could just leave the quick-release fixed to the erg and easily change between different shoes.

I've only been able to find one product that I think might work (emailed them but haven't gotten a response yet):

rowfit.com/fas.htm

I even thought of modifying a professional camera tripod quick-release plate system, but I think the forces involved would be too much for those plates to bear.

Anyone know of any quick-release systems that could work? I'm sure someone must make quick-release boat shoes, I just need to find out whom...

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » October 3rd, 2006, 1:48 pm

hernan1304 wrote: Anyone know of any quick-release systems that could work? I'm sure someone must make quick-release boat shoes, I just need to find out whom...

I started rowing strapless for the first time just a few months ago and have no problem with it at 30spm and lower rates. The one thing that struck me as being a huge advantage was the fact the when I was finished with a piece, there was no struggle to get out of the straps. I was free to just lift my feet up and step down onto the floor. It is the best possible "quick-release." I am not being facetious here. It seemed like a simple thing, but it was really a great feeling to just be free of the straps immediately. I have since rowed strapless at rates over 30smp for short bursts and have learned to cope with that. the other advantages of rowing without the straps, such as technique improvement have been covered in detail before on this forum, so I won't go into that.

Bob S.

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » October 3rd, 2006, 1:49 pm

hernan1304 wrote: Anyone know of any quick-release systems that could work?

How about adapting cycling cleats/pedals? Shimano SPDs, SPD-Ls or Looks. They work well with a high force load. (The cleats only detach from the pedal with a twisting force - same way a ski boot comes out of the binding.)

hernan1304 · Post by **hernan1304** » October 3rd, 2006, 2:25 pm

Citroen wrote:How about adapting cycling cleats/pedals?

Thanks for the idea Citroen. I had thought of doing something with bike pedals, but the problems with that, as far as I can tell are:

a) I would have to figure out a way to attach a clipless pedal to the footplate, which would definitely require serious modification of the footplate

b) I would have to figure out a way to adapt rowing shoes (which have four screw holes that are pretty far apart from each other) to accept cycling cleats (which have closely spaced screw holes). Unfortunately, I also couldn't just bypass the rowing shoes altogether and use cycling shoes either, since those are designed with very stiff soles, which is exactly the opposite of rowing shoes.

c) clipless pedals are not designed to withstand continuous twisting fore and aft, since if you rocked back and forth on bike pedals they would rotate on their axle and very minimal force would be exerted on the spring mechanism. I think over time this would become a concern.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » October 3rd, 2006, 7:34 pm

Citroen wrote:
hernan1304 wrote: Anyone know of any quick-release systems that could work?
How about adapting cycling cleats/pedals? Shimano SPDs, SPD-Ls or Looks. They work well with a high force load. (The cleats only detach from the pedal with a twisting force - same way a ski boot comes out of the binding.)

Been done for use in Boats, could be tough to adapt for the Erg.

Swing slings are the way to go, but unlike you I really hate shoes in a boat, but that's about all that is available these days. Clogs were far better and hopefully will make a comeback.

hernan1304 · Post by **hernan1304** » October 4th, 2006, 12:35 pm

Thank you for the info, Paul. Unfortunately that solution is much like what Citroen had suggested... they used Shimano road cycling pedals which they attached to an axle in order to allow them to rotate and not strain the spring mechanism, and instead of rowing shoes they used Shimano cycling shoes, which are made extremely rigid to not bend at all at the sole. The result is that instead of bending, your feet stay straight and pivot at the pedal axle.

It appears that there is no solution to my dilemma, other than just using my original idea of having shoes attached to plates that I can screw into the C2 footplates. Now I just have to figure out the quickest way to release eight screws each time I want to change shoes. Anyone know of something faster than wingnuts?

I'll try to post pictures if I ever get it done. Thank you all for your help!

c2jonw · Post by **c2jonw** » October 4th, 2006, 1:20 pm

I guess if it were me I would try to go with a single large fastener (3/8" diameter) with a flat head such as a truss head or carriage head (with the head of the fastener inside the shoe under the insole). This would mean drilling one hole in the middle of each footplate, which would not interfere with refitting the original system. With a couple of washers and wing nuts you'd have a quick change assembly with no tools required. C2JonW

bw1099 · Post by **bw1099** » October 6th, 2006, 8:56 pm

PaulS wrote: Clogs were far better and hopefully will make a comeback.

What are clogs?

Tinpusher · Post by **Tinpusher** » October 6th, 2006, 9:36 pm

Clogs are traditional shoes from the Netherlands carved from a solid piece of wood.
Try here

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Boat Shoes on a Model D?

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