Model D Mods - Monitor And Toe Piece For Barefeet

[[old] lowwall]

I received my new Model D last week (it's replacing a Model C I'm giving away to a family member). I've made a couple of minor changes to it that I thought might be of general interest.<br /><br />First, I've always kept the monitor arm more or less parallel to the floor, so the Model D monitor is way too high for my comfort. I'm not sure why C2 has limited the travel of the monitor arm (the only reason I could think of is to avoid the monitor getting bashed if someone lets the handle go from the end of a stroke), but there appears to be no physical reason for it.<br /><br />Anyway, you can increase the monitor arm range of motion by removing the rubber (plastic?) piece that surrounds the opening on the fixed vertical part of the monitor arm that the chain runs through. It's held in place with 6 small bolts backed by locknuts. I can't find a name for this piece, but will call it the "surround."<br /><br />Now just flip the surround top for bottom. On what is now the top, you'll notice the sides extend a bit above the horizontal crosspiece. You need to trim the part of these sides (above the crosspiece) that will be hidden by the metal frame. You will also need to elongate the top of the screw holes on the surround. This will be covered by the large washers, so your modification will not be visible. <br /><br />Push the surround back into the frame (you'll probably need to press down a little on the top crosspiece to get it into place) and replace the bolts, washers and nuts. Although it still won't go as far as on a Model B or C, you should now have a greater range of motion to the arm with no visible changes to the erg.<br /><br />I made one other change. I row barefoot and found the ridges molded into the flexfoot toe piece to be very uncomfortable, so I simply swapped the whole flexfoot assembly from my old model C. I just called C2 and they do have some of the old flexfoot toe pieces in stock if you want to try this.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-lowwall+Oct 26 2005, 01:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lowwall @ Oct 26 2005, 01:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I received my new Model D last week (it's replacing a Model C I'm giving away to a family member).  I've made a couple of minor changes to it that I thought might be of general interest.<br /><br />First, I've always kept the monitor arm more or less parallel to the floor, so the Model D monitor is way too high for my comfort.  I'm not sure why C2 has limited the travel of the monitor arm (the only reason I could think of is to avoid the monitor getting bashed if someone lets the handle go from the end of a stroke), but there appears to be no physical reason for it.<br /><br />Anyway, you can increase the monitor arm range of motion by removing the  rubber (plastic?) piece that surrounds the opening on the fixed vertical part of the monitor arm that the chain runs through.  It's held in place with 6 small bolts backed by locknuts.  I can't find a name for this piece, but will call it the "surround."<br /><br />Now just flip the surround top for bottom.  On what is now the top, you'll notice the sides extend a bit above the horizontal crosspiece.  You need to trim the part of these sides (above the crosspiece) that will be hidden by the metal frame.  You will also need to elongate the top of the screw holes on the surround.  This will be covered by the large washers, so your modification will not be visible.  <br /><br />Push the surround back into the frame (you'll probably need to press down a little on the top crosspiece to get it into place) and replace the bolts, washers and nuts.  Although it still won't go as far as on a Model B or C, you should now have a greater range of motion to the arm with no visible changes to the erg.<br /><br />I made one other change.  I row barefoot and found the ridges molded into the flexfoot toe piece to be very uncomfortable, so I simply swapped the whole flexfoot assembly from my old model C.  I just called C2 and they do have some of the old flexfoot toe pieces in stock if you want to try this. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You over thought the issue. The normal abusers of Ergs at my club just Pushed the Montor arm down and the Flexible "surround" gives way pretty easily. I've never understood why anyone wants it in this position, and actually put the arm pertty close to vertical, "eye level" is the real adjustment I'm looking for, the stock position is not bad, but it's easy to move up to where I like it.<br /><br />Oh, if you don't like the "forcing it" option, you could probably just give the arm a flip so that the stop is now away from you, it will make folding the arm back run into the flywheel, but if you are doing that regularly (as well as going very low), the sensor cable is going to have a short life. It was even suggested that this particular modification puts the Monitor more precisely in line with the chain and pulley, thus keeping the athlete more "centered" naturally.

[[old] michaelb]

I am not sure I understand your modification. Do you want the PM3 sticking out at you or sticking away from you (in order for the arm to be parallel to the floor)?<br /><br />I recently had to replace my PM3, and what struck me about the PM3 assembly was the bolt holding it to the arm. This is a solid 4" 5/16 hex bolt (I think) with a stainless nut. This is more substantial hardware then what I use to hold together our boat dock. The breaking force of that bolt has to be in the thousands of pounds. What kind of situation is C2 designing that for? I would think that monitor assembly is strong enough to hold up a 20" LCD; maybe that is planned for the PM4?

[[old] John Rupp]

Lowwall,<br /><br />Thanks much for posting your fixes to the model D erg. I don't have one but will keep these things in mind if the occasion ever comes that I do.<br /><br />What is the lowest position of the model D monitor? I usually keep the top at about the same height as the top of the fan cage, and have experimented with it higher and lower than that.<br /><br />As to the foot plates, I wonder why C2 does these things. The railing was level and now it is skewed, the pm2 worked and now the pm3 has lots of problems and issues, and now these things. Okay enough of that little ramble.<br /><br />I wonder if the ridges could be sanded off so the flexfeet would be smooth again?<br /><br />I also row barefoot, with the flex feet at the highest position. However the flex feet attachments don't go up to the top of the foot plates, so the tops of my toes would be pushing off the top sharp plastic edges. To remedy this, I added a couple pieces of 1/4 inch wood at the tops, with plastic ties that go through little holes in the wood then through the holes of the flexfeet. This forms a base at the top to the foot plates, so the top plastic edge of the flex feet doesn't cut into the bottoms of my toes.<br /><br />It would be possible to make the wood pieces slip on and off more easily, but I don't move the position so this doesn't matter for now. I have wondered though, if this problem has been corrected on the model D.

[[old] lowwall]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rupp - What is the lowest position of the model D monitor? I usually keep the top at about the same height as the top of the fan cage, and have experimented with it higher and lower than that. </td></tr></table><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->michaelb - I am not sure I understand your modification. Do you want the PM3 sticking out at you or sticking away from you (in order for the arm to be parallel to the floor)? </td></tr></table><br />This is as far down as mine went without modification.<br /><br /><img src='http://www.sim64.co.uk/concept2-rower.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />This is where I want it (more or less). Otherwise it interferes with <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... =2862&st=0' target='_blank'>my view</a>.<br /><br /><img src='http://www.biofit.com.hk/images/cv/concept2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PaulS - Oh, if you don't like the "forcing it" option, you could probably just give the arm a flip so that the stop is now away from you, it will make folding the arm back run into the flywheel, but if you are doing that regularly (as well as going very low), the sensor cable is going to have a short life. </td></tr></table><br />I'll take a look at this when I get home tonight. I hardly ever move the monitor so wearing out the cable is not a problem.

[[old] John Rupp]

Wow!! That is indeed *very* high.<br /><br />Perhaps they are counting on everyone being 7 feet tall or else growing a lot.

[[old] Porkchop]

This is an interesting discussion. Let me give you a different thought on the monitor position. I'm still relatively new to this activity (~16 months). I had always kept the monitor low (and therefore closer to me -- at my age that helps with visibility ) -- and I could get mine very close to horizontal, lower than shown in lowwall's picture. <br /><br />It used to irk me when I came downstairs to work out and found that one of my daughters had left the monitor arm in a vertical position. (My two younger daughters both row for their respective high schools, and presumably picked up this position from their winter training.) <br /><br />A couple weeks ago I just went ahead and rowed with the monitor arm up in the vertical position. I discovered that looking straight ahead, or perhaps slightly upward, at the monitor changed the way I rowed. When I had the monitor low, I looked down at it. Looking down at the monitor caused me to bend my neck forward, and resulted in my bending my entire back forward slightly at the catch. Looking forward (or up) helps me keep my back straight(er) at the catch. I think it has improved my form. I don't know if others may have similar results, but it has made a difference for me. <br /><br />I have also noticed that I have less lingering lower back soreness/fatigue after I row. The ergonomics of erging (sorry John, I had to do it ) is a subject someone better trained than I would be able to address more scientifically, I think, but I believe that raising the monitor arm can lead to improvements in form.

[[old] rspenger]

<!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Oct 27 2005, 10:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Oct 27 2005, 10:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It used to irk me when I came downstairs to work out and found that one of my daughters had left the monitor arm in a vertical position.  (My two younger daughters both row for their respective high schools, and presumably picked up this position from their winter training.)  <br /><br />A couple weeks ago I just went ahead and rowed with the monitor arm up in the vertical position.  I discovered that looking straight ahead, or perhaps slightly upward, at the monitor changed the way I rowed.  When I had the monitor low, I looked down at it.  Looking down at the monitor caused me to bend my neck forward, and resulted in my bending my entire back forward slightly at the catch.  Looking forward (or up) helps me keep my back straight(er) at the catch.  I think it has improved my form.  I don't know if others may have similar results, but it has made a difference for me.  <br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It sounds like your daughters' coaches know their business.<br /><br />Bob S.

[[old] John Rupp]

PC,<br /><br />I did a lot of experiments with the monitor height, and found an intermediate position to work well.<br /><br />Also, having the monitor low works better for me than having it high.<br /><br />I have seen videos and pictures of a lot of rowers (sorry PC ) and the ones with the monitor high invariably were leaning backwards during recovery and thus out of position for the drive. Among other things that would cause the rhythm to be off and difficulty maintaining stroke rate, i.e. resulting in a slower sluggish rating for the distance.<br /><br />The fact a lot of U.S. coaches are control freaks and U.S. teams routinely get stomped by small countries like Denmark and Italy serves to reinforce these types of experimentation and observation over historical conventioness.

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-rspenger+Oct 27 2005, 01:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(rspenger @ Oct 27 2005, 01:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Oct 27 2005, 10:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Oct 27 2005, 10:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It used to irk me when I came downstairs to work out and found that one of my daughters had left the monitor arm in a vertical position.  (My two younger daughters both row for their respective high schools, and presumably picked up this position from their winter training.)  <br /><br />A couple weeks ago I just went ahead and rowed with the monitor arm up in the vertical position.  I discovered that looking straight ahead, or perhaps slightly upward, at the monitor changed the way I rowed.  When I had the monitor low, I looked down at it.  Looking down at the monitor caused me to bend my neck forward, and resulted in my bending my entire back forward slightly at the catch.  Looking forward (or up) helps me keep my back straight(er) at the catch.  I think it has improved my form.  I don't know if others may have similar results, but it has made a difference for me.  <br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It sounds like your daughters' coaches know their business.<br /><br />Bob S. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />And I'm a little slow, sometimes. <br /><br />They do run excellent programs at both schools. Both teams placed extremely well at Stotesbury and SRA Nationals last year at all levels, including one national championship on the boys' side.<br /><br />It sure would be nice if they rowed for the same team, though. The trash talk at the dinner table gets pretty fierce, sometimes. Their older sister boxes in college, too. Sometimes, I just have to duck and cover. Fortunately, they have never rowed head-to-head. That would be just too ugly for words.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Oct 27 2005, 11:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Oct 27 2005, 11:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PC,<br /><br />I did a lot of experiments with the monitor height, and found an intermediate position to work well.<br /><br />Also, having the monitor low works better for me than having it high.<br /><br />I have seen videos and pictures of a lot of rowers (sorry PC  ) and the ones with the monitor high invariably were leaning backwards during recovery and thus out of position for the drive.  Among other things that would cause the rhythm to be off and difficulty maintaining stroke rate, i.e. resulting in a slower sluggish rating for the distance.<br /><br />The fact a lot of U.S. coaches are control freaks and U.S. teams routinely get stomped by small countries like Denmark and Italy serves to reinforce these types of experimentation and observation over historical conventioness. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I think your vacation is wearing off, time for another? <br /><br />The USA has no State Supported Rowers, and even in spite of that seem to do relatively well on the World Stage in "The Main Event" M8+. I'd say that the US coaches, though likely opinionated, are less "control freakish" than many of the coaches around the world, which is part of the reason for successes like NZL at the 2005 Worlds, all athletes had been on the same training program, "controlled", causing a peak at just the right time, earning them gold in 4 consecutive events. Something we haven't seen since the East German (control freaks) powerhouse.<br /><br />If you think moving the monitor to a lower height helps you, go for it, but please don't think that will be the case for the majority.<br /><br />Cheers.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Oct 27 2005, 01:42 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Oct 27 2005, 01:42 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think your vacation is wearing off, time for another?  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm always ready for vacation. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you think moving the monitor to a lower height helps you, go for it, <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I didn't say a lower height. I said it's at an intermediate height. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but please don't think that will be the case for the majority.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'd rather be exceptional.

[[old] John Rupp]

Lowwall,<br /><br />I checked the monitor height and the center of it was an intersecting line from the top of the cage. <br /><br />It had come down a little though so I tapped it up a bit and now the bottom is just a bit lower than the top of the fan cage, but basically the same. This is just about right.<br /><br />I like the monitor being at a height that it stays in about the same place, and doesn't move up or down relative to the fan cage through the stroke.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Oct 27 2005, 02:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Oct 27 2005, 02:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I like the monitor being at a height that it stays in about the same place, and doesn't move up or down relative to the fan cage through the stroke. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If your monitor is not staying in place, or is moving up and down relative to the fan cage through the stroke, I'd suggest that there may be a nut loose on your Erg.

[[old] John Rupp]

The monitor stays in place.<br /><br />However the line of vision from the monitor to the fan cage can move unless the monitor is in a central position, so the line at the front is the same as the line at the back.<br /><br />Having the monitor above or below that line will cause the monitor to move up and down respective a line to the fan cage in back, even though the monitor stays in the same place.<br /><br />I like having the monitor in the central intermediate position, so the line of vision stays the same through the stroke.