Slides Attachment> What Should I Expect?

Francois · Post by **Francois** » September 13th, 2006, 2:08 pm

HammerHead Sk8r wrote: I guess the thing that I have not read as much about is the benefits of switching to the slides. Any more thoughts about the benefits.....

I find them easier on my back. I tend to use my legs more when on the slides as well as delay the opening of the back. After the finish, they also force me to pivot at the hips (as if I was sitting on a chair and wanted to stand up) and not rush the recovery.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » September 13th, 2006, 2:49 pm

Benefits of the slides:

1) easier;

2) faster.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 13th, 2006, 4:56 pm

John Rupp wrote:Benefits of the slides:

1) easier;

2) faster.

And once again, you attain a new height in your enlightenment.

In what way are Slides "easier" or "faster"? The Flywheel does not change in any physical way when the Erg is placed on Slides, does it? Why do no controlled scientific studies agree with your claim?

Cheers!

The proper response is "Thank you.", NOT "You're welcome".

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » September 13th, 2006, 6:10 pm

Whether going uphill or down, a car doesn't change.

A bicycle doesn't change. A runner doesn't change. Gravity doesn't change either.

Whether you're on the slides or the erg, you still have the same intelligence, and same butt.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 13th, 2006, 6:47 pm

John Rupp wrote:Whether going uphill or down, a car doesn't change.

A bicycle doesn't change. A runner doesn't change. Gravity doesn't change either.

Whether you're on the slides or the erg, you still have the same intelligence, and same butt.

Is that some sort of insult? Well done!

There is no hill on the Slides.

When giving advice or making claims on the forum it is important to be accurate and based in fact rather than fantasy.

Now please deal with the specific question as to why no controlled scientific study has shown that the Slides are "easier" or "faster" as you have claimed.

Isn't this fun?

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » September 13th, 2006, 9:15 pm

PaulS wrote:When giving advice or making claims on the forum it is important to be accurate and based in fact rather than fantasy.

When are you going to start doing that then.

PaulS wrote:please deal with the specific question as to why no controlled scientific study has shown that the Slides are "easier" or "faster" as you have claimed.

Why doesn't water ever flow downhill then?

Same answer.

Jim Barry · Post by **Jim Barry** » September 13th, 2006, 9:48 pm

When are you two getting married anyway?

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 14th, 2006, 9:54 am

John Rupp wrote:
PaulS wrote:When giving advice or making claims on the forum it is important to be accurate and based in fact rather than fantasy.
When are you going to start doing that then.

PaulS wrote:please deal with the specific question as to why no controlled scientific study has shown that the Slides are "easier" or "faster" as you have claimed.
Why doesn't water ever flow downhill then?

Same answer.

Right! "Because it don't do that."

Another Stunning illustration of your AMAZING grasp on reality!

Thank you for making this so easy.

JB - Now now, what in the world did I ever do to you?!?!
This is humor, not tragedy or horror.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » September 14th, 2006, 11:45 am

PaulS wrote:Right! "Because it don't do that."

Exactly!

PaulS wrote:Another Stunning illustration of your AMAZING grasp on reality!

Thank you, Paul. That is very nice of you to say.

PaulS wrote:Thank you for making this so easy.

You're quite welcome!

mpukita · Post by **mpukita** » September 14th, 2006, 3:06 pm

MC:

Benefits:

1) Easier on the back.

2) Harder if you are a LW. John's dead wrong on then being faster across the board. We've seen the physics and the math behind it. LWs get penalized, HWs get a benefit. Where the crossover is, I'm not certain. I'm a LW and when I get off them, I feel like considerably more power has been unleashed, and paces show it.

3) Reward good technique; penalize bad technique ... more like OTW in this regard than fixed erging.

4) Fun; change of pace; variety ... which could add up to more motivation to row longer and faster.

-- Mark

HammerHead Sk8r · Post by **HammerHead Sk8r** » September 14th, 2006, 3:19 pm

Wow. Amazing how a simple question could develop in such outstanding sarcasm. Sure you guys aren't skateboard racers? This is the same kind of back and forth we hear between two particular wheel manufacturers, two seperate skateboard truck designer/makers, and numerous board designer/builders. Makes me feel right at home on this forum.......
the sport is different but the attitude is the same. hmmm.

Anyway, sincerely, thanks for all the info. I like the idea of the slides incorporating my legs more (I know its a technique issue I need to resolve but after an hour row my legs are not taxed much but my upper body is far more stressed.). I also like the idea of improvement on my back. I have a fusion and titanium plate at C6/C7 (neck) and had a stress fracture at L5/SI (lower back/butt) earlier this year.
So far though my back has done well. I did a half marathon two Saturdays ago in 1:38:06 and my back felt good. So far in the month of Sept I am about 85000m and again the back, neck has handled it without the slides.

Oh, and BTW, I am clearly a heavy weight: 6' 215lbs

And not that it matters but here are my times:
> 2000 m 7:43.0
> 5000m 20:32.3
> 6000m 25:02.5
> 10000m 43:11.5
> 60 minutes 14031m
> 21087m 1:38:06.4

Thanks again.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 14th, 2006, 3:57 pm

mpukita wrote:MC:

Benefits:

1) Easier on the back.

2) Harder if you are a LW. John's dead wrong on then being faster across the board. We've seen the physics and the math behind it. LWs get penalized, HWs get a benefit. Where the crossover is, I'm not certain. I'm a LW and when I get off them, I feel like considerably more power has been unleashed, and paces show it.

3) Reward good technique; penalize bad technique ... more like OTW in this regard than fixed erging.

4) Fun; change of pace; variety ... which could add up to more motivation to row longer and faster.

-- Mark

Careful there Mark, if you are going to claim hwts gain an advantage on the Slides, then you are going to have to also accept that hwts are at a disadvantage when on the Grounded Erg. Therefore, why is there lwt class at all, when they seem to have the advantage everywhere except on slides?

HammerheadSk8r,

Wheels and trucks are probably a bit more subjective than the laws of physics, but yes, the attitude is certainly similar.

Slides have both benefits and liabilities, you can still row quite poorly when using them, just like it's possible to row poorly when strapless, though it's a lot more obvious. There is nothing that will MAKE you row with good technique, other than your attention to doing so.

"The perfect search for the endless stroke."

HammerHead Sk8r · Post by **HammerHead Sk8r** » September 14th, 2006, 4:23 pm

Actually, PaulS, in downhill and slalom skating you would be suprised at how much physics come to play in the design, the construction, and the materials used in trucks, wheels, boards (can you say "composite carbon fiber") and bearings. Again not that it matters, but I can turn you on to some engineers (the guys that make the wheels and trucks) and you will be amazed at their discussion of physics as it relates to the sport. Keep in mind there are times we are going well in excess of 50 mph in downhill and well over 30 mph in Giant slalom.....the way the wheels are engineered and the way the trucks turn and manage speeds is critical. This is not the same kind of skateboards you see kids skating on. Just one of my set ups for downhill costs more than my C2 did. A set of high end downhill trucks is $500 alone....with many being more than that!

Regardless, your info has been great! Thanks. I am looking forward to putting the slides to the test when they get here. For now I am just rowing and learning and rowing and learning and rowing.....

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » September 14th, 2006, 5:16 pm

HammerHead Sk8r wrote:Actually, PaulS, in downhill and slalom skating you would be suprised at how much physics come to play in the design, the construction, and the materials used in trucks, wheels, boards (can you say "composite carbon fiber") and bearings. Again not that it matters, but I can turn you on to some engineers (the guys that make the wheels and trucks) and you will be amazed at their discussion of physics as it relates to the sport. Keep in mind there are times we are going well in excess of 50 mph in downhill and well over 30 mph in Giant slalom.....the way the wheels are engineered and the way the trucks turn and manage speeds is critical. This is not the same kind of skateboards you see kids skating on. Just one of my set ups for downhill costs more than my C2 did. A set of high end downhill trucks is $500 alone....with many being more than that!

Regardless, your info has been great! Thanks. I am looking forward to putting the slides to the test when they get here. For now I am just rowing and learning and rowing and learning and rowing.....

"Composite Carbon Fibre" is about all we say in the world of Rowing, and yes, I was being a bit flippant about the physics thing, but I'd guess it's about on par with the Boat/oar manufacturers making claims of being the "latest" and "greatest". Not to minimize the skateboard thing, but I've also talked with "soapbox derby" (yes, it still exists in a huge way) participants and their gear seems to rival what you are talking about. They don't even get to do any pushing, it's pure gravity, and they even all must weigh exactly the same (car + driver).

I can imagine that a high speed shimmy would be a really bad thing in your world, but then again, we don't end up with titanium reinforcing requirements much in Rowing, indoor or out. Well, there are some suspicions.

In rowing we tend to accept that unless the chariot is severely broken, it's the Horse that makes the difference.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » September 14th, 2006, 9:59 pm

PaulS wrote: Well, there are some suspicions. :shock:

Paul,

It looks like someone picked a gym rat for a model. The knees are nowhere near straight and the arms already have an angle about equal to that in the legs. It also looks like he is going to develop sore wrists - if he stays at it more than a few minutes.

Where did you pick up that pic?

Bob S.