The perfect stroke

[jjpisano]

The perfect stroke on the Concept2 involves starting with shins verticle and pulling hard to the chest. The force curve rises rapidly to a plateau and continues to ascend through the stroke at a much less steep slope.

The problem with this stroke is the tremendous force at the beginning of the stroke generated by the legs. Can that force be so strong that the weaker parts of the connection are injured? In particular, what if the perfect stroke breaks your ribs?

In March, I was fresh from the CRASH-B's and armed with the article in rowing news showing verticle shins. In addition, I had met Paul S. at Crash-B's who showed me his ErgMoitor software in action. During that meeting, he critiqued my stroke and basically said that my force curve could be more steep at the begining of the stroke.

So I vowed to change my stroke by shortening it (I generally start the drive with my knees a few centimeters past the ankles) and working on a good early explosive leg drive. I did this stroke for two workouts before I quit because it hurt my ribs. I immediately went back to my old stroke which is slightly longer but my legs are in a less powerful position.

I know someday that I will want to get back to the shorter more powerful stroke because I think it will get me to my ultimate personal best 2k. But I am in no rush to change.

[johnlvs2run]

what if the perfect stroke breaks your ribs?

When a stroke is causing injury then it is far from perfect.

By definition, the perfect stroke cannot break your ribs.

Paul's stroke injured his back and put him out of rowing for 20 years, now he is teaching the same stroke to others.

[TomR]

Jim,

Any change in technique introduced at full power (or speed) is likely to hurt, and perhaps harm. Have you considered doing some work on the "perfect stroke" at less than full power to allow your body time to adjust to the different forces?

I guess the question is: Would the technical improvements in stroke provide a sufficient gain in power to allow you to take a couple of weeks to make the transition and get back on your training plan?

Too risky? The race is still 5 months away. Crash-Bs are not for 6 months.

Tom

[PaulS]

what if the perfect stroke breaks your ribs?

When a stroke is causing injury then it is far from perfect.

By definition, the perfect stroke cannot break your ribs.

Paul's stroke injured his back and put him out of rowing for 20 years, now he is teaching the same stroke to others.

John (Moron!),

I did not injure my back taking a rowing stroke. You know this, so taking a snipe at it is more of your usual antics.

My back injury occured during a session of leg press, doing a reasonable amount of weight (380lbs) a ridiculous number of times (2 x 300 reps). Two vertebrae were fractured along with some disc damage. I was a candidate for the US national team at the time and hid the injury instead of being smart about getting help because I didn't want to hurt my chances for selection. Fortunately I've become smarter about training since then.

The stroke that I teach to others is what I learned prior to that injury and currently use today.

[Byron Drachman]

Hi Jim,

From page 38, Backus and Karlson, in Rowing Faster, edited by Volker Nolte,

Rib stress fracture Bone always remodels with exercise, but the breakdown occurs slightly faster than rebuilding. Without enough recovery time, the bone doesn't have a chance to rebuild, resulting in a stress fracture. In high-volume training programs, this injury occurs in 10 percent of rowers per year regardless of gender, weight, or boat category

Later there is a discussion on intercostal strain, which may be a prestress fracture condition.

For either, the authors recommend working on technique with emphasis on keeping the back straight, and possibly bench pulls to lay down new bone, but not overdoing it. For the stress fracture, they recommend two weeks of alternate exercise such as cycling, then two weeks of gentle ergometer, then two weeks of gradual return (to water.) The discussion is about rowing on water, but I assume the discussion applies to the ergometer also.

I hope you fix the problem.

Byron

[johnlvs2run]

The stroke that I teach to others is what I learned prior to that injury and currently use today.

Exactly what I said.

Same thing then. Same thing now.

[jjpisano]

Jim,

Any change in technique introduced at full power (or speed) is likely to hurt, and perhaps harm. Have you considered doing some work on the "perfect stroke" at less than full power to allow your body time to adjust to the different forces?

I guess the question is: Would the technical improvements in stroke provide a sufficient gain in power to allow you to take a couple of weeks to make the transition and get back on your training plan?

Too risky? The race is still 5 months away. Crash-Bs are not for 6 months.

Tom

Tom:

I think that my present stroke can get me to this year's goal (a 6:40 2k). So I'm not about to change my stroke any time soon.

But at some point, I will be making the transition to a shorter stroke. I'm just not looking forward to it. I think it's reasonable to decrease the intensity for awhile to work on a new stroke. This would allow strengthening all the bones and ligaments and tendons and cartilage involved in the connection of the stroke. Then I can slowly increase the intensity over time.

In this case, I think of the intensity of the stroke in terms of stroke power index (SPI=watts/spm). Lower SPI is easier on the connecting parts and higher SPI is harder. With a shorter, more efficient stroke, the spm can go up and if watts stays the same, the SPI can go down.

[GeorgeD]

Can someone explain how you break ribs rowing? Am I right that we are not talking about impact from the handle (as it only really brushes the lower chest), but about 'stress fractures' If it is the latter then this would support the argument that this threat can be significantly lessoned by gradual increase in intensity over time and by working on core strength.

George

[jjpisano]

Can someone explain how you break ribs rowing? Am I right that we are not talking about impact from the handle (as it only really brushes the lower chest), but about 'stress fractures' If it is the latter then this would support the argument that this threat can be significantly lessoned by gradual increase in intensity over time and by working on core strength.

George

In my case, I don't believe I broke my ribs. I had intercostal strain as Byron Drachman labeled it. But I know some great rowers have broken ribs from rowing and it wasn't from hitting the chest with the handle but from the strain of transferring the power through the ribs.

[LJWagner]

Some stress fractures are caused by severe muscle imbalances. Ice skaters seem to get them in the thighs.

For rowers, that means ab work (crunches, and full situps or running to balance glutes and low back), and bench press to balance the power in the lats and rhomboids.

Where you have power, build counterbalance. It does not have to be equal, you just don't want gross imbalance. Rounded shoulders are an indication of muscle imbalance. So are pinched together shoulder blades. Some people have odd walking gaits, feet turned way out, or their arms swing palms back elbows out. Those are muscle imbalance problems.

The strongest OTW rower at my college once won a case of beer for doing 1000 situps in 30 minutes. Good balance. I'm sure he could take that many strokes rowing in 30 minutes easily.

[johnlvs2run]

Can someone explain how you break ribs rowing?

Improper form and technique.

The ribs being (1) out of position and (2) putting pressure on them.

Doing the same wrong things over and over -- much the same as causes wrist, arm, shoulder, etc and back injuries.

[ranger]

Jim--

What drag are you using?

I also got some intercostal strain last winter, but in trying to up the drag.

If you lower the drag (but keep fast legs), the intercostal strain is reduced.

I now row at 115 df.

ranger

[jjpisano]

104df on my B model Concept2 and I don't remember if it's the 13 tooth cog or 15 tooth cog.

When I go on a C model Concept2, I translate my df to 130.

[johnlvs2run]

It must be the 13 tooth cogwheel.

104 x [ 14x14x14 ] / [ 13x13x13] = 130

[PaulS]

The stroke that I teach to others is what I learned prior to that injury and currently use today.

Exactly what I said.

Same thing then. Same thing now.

John (Idiot!),

You said, "Paul's stroke injured his back and put him out of rowing for 20 years..."

Which is completely incorrect.
Though, that tracks with your overall record of correctness very well.

I can recall helping you solve the problem of hurting your ribs because you were exhaling into the catch and doing away with the support that the lungs would normally provide. This was before you decided to go insane and become the yappy Yorkie you are today. Perhaps you are continuing to project the stupidity of your past behavior on others, instead of just realizing it's okay to learn and move on.

I'd suggest you quietly exit stage left, before I decide to stop ignoring you and rally up another round of "johnnyball" just for fun. (Won't be fun for you though, I can guarantee it.) We've not talked about milk lately, I'm sure folks would simply love to hear you prattle on a bit about it's dangers to humankind.