Weight Training for Rowing

[maritato1]

Is there any particular weight training exercises or weight training programs (to improve my rowing power/speed, etc) that anyone would recommend.

Thanks

Rich

[Ray79]

I could think of worse places to start than this

http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/pdfs/tr ... pter_7.pdf

[yoda]

The quickest way to gain strength in any athletic endeavor is to duplicate the movements. In other words, look at the movement throughout the stroke. What muscle groups are being used and what exercise closely duplicates those movements? Leg Press, Bent over Rowing, Deadlift, and a high angled ab curl. I would think that performing these exercises would allow you to gain strength faster than any other combination of exercises.

Keep in mind that there are many different protocols out there and all have a place in your training. Whatever you decide to do, in order to gain, you must stick with it and remember that the body gains most when it is allowed proper rest for recovery.

Good Luck,
Yoda

[hkp2ksk]

FWIW,

Yoda is right!!!

here's my routine:

A Routine:

Neck Extension/Flexion (Nautilus 2nd Gen Plate loaded)
Leg Curl (Hammer Strength MTS)
Leg Press (Nautilus Nitro)
Calf Press (Nautilus XPLoad)
Chest Press (Nautilus Nitro)
Compound Row (Nautilus Nitro)
Abdominals on declined bench

B Routine:

Leg Extension (Hammer Strength MTS)
Back Extension/Hamstring Flexion (body weight on MedX PullDown)
Calf Press (Roman Chair w/ weight belt holding 135# and my instructor (241#) on my back)
Pec Flyes (Nautilus Nitro)
Cable Row (LifeFitness)
Reverse biceps curl (LifeFitness)
Abs (Hammer Strength MTS)

Each ex is done to complete and total concentric failure at 60"; if short of 60", then same weight next workout. If 60" or more, next workout weight goes up either 2.5 or 5.0 pounds.

I strength train x1 per week, and row OTW x2 per week. At 68 yoa I can maintain 174 bpm heart rate for 1:28"; HR drops to low 140's within 1 minute and I'm good to go for 3 more intervals at 174. I then puke

HTH,

tony

[yoda]

Tony,

Do you have a special Nautilus barf bucket for the times you get sick?

That's quite a workout. How long have you been doing it?

Yoda

[hkp2ksk]

Yoda,

I've been doing this routine for about 6 to 8 months or so. I've been doing the split routine for golly, probably 3 years or so. Overall I've been doing this brand of high intensity training for almost 6 years. It started out for bout a year or so with the standard Super Slow protocol of Ken Hutchins. As I got stronger and more interested in developing muscular strength to help me keep up with some of the folks I run with, my trainer shifted me to fewer exercises within each routine, shorter time under load, and seriously increased weight on each exercise. When I got the rowing bug, he designed what I posted.

The only negative outcome I've had from the intensity of the workouts have been episodes of transient global amnesia and/or the early phase of acute shock. Those events typically happened when I combined short intervals between each exercise, e.g., running from machine to machine, or when the exercise itself either occluded venous return or blocked carotid arterial blood flow. Now, we always take a break between each machine and we've eliminated those machines (e.g., Nautilus 2nd generation seated dip and MedEx lateral raise) that seemed to invoke congestion in my neck.

I'll get to test more the value of the workout design in the next couple weeks when I get to take some sculling lessons in a single when I go to the Cape for vacation.

take care,

tony

[nowherefast]

I have become a big fan (no pun intended) of C2's DYNO. I used it at a gym for two years after recuperating from back surgery. When I changed gyms I reverted to using conventional weight machines and rapidly returned to my old poundage. Now my in-home gym consists of a Model D and a DYNO. If your goal is fitness in service to your sport this is something you should consider. The advantages I found are speed of workout, ease of use of the machine, and its specificity(a press movement, a row movement, a leg press). "Real" lifters won't like the lack of resistance as you "lower" the weight but it does challenge you to produce power with each repitition. It is also injury free (one of my surgeries was bad form on the bent-over row, the other bad luck with heavy squats). My workout is a 10K row followed by three sets of leg presses on alternate days with 5K rows followed by three sets each of bench press and row/pull movement.
As I age (58) strength training is important in its own right. Speed and specificity are no less important to me (speed ensures I'll fit the workout into my schedule,specificity helps me row a 6:42 2K). I don't know why C2 doesn't devote more time to this product.

[hkp2ksk]

nowherefast,

sounds like you've hit the nail on the head w/ your routine!! Just a suggestion here: when you set up your DYNO, take note of the length in seconds of your repetition cycle, postive and negative. Select a weight that restricts you to moving through a complete cycle in no more than 10 seconds, with 2 to 3 seconds just to get the DYNO to move at the bottom prior to starting another concentric; slow at the top, move naturally to the bottom and then another 2 to 3 seconds to get the postive going.

OTOH, completely ignore my above comments given what your 2k time is

I thinik that the beauty of the DYNO, largley unrealized by me and lotsa other folks, is that the darn thing is really as close as you can get to a sport specific strength trainer!!

Rock on, Sir,

tony

[yoda]

Sir Tony,

Are you using 10 seconds per rep on all of your exercises? I've been cycling my reps. Example: Month 1- 10 seconds per rep, Month 2- 15 seconds per rep, Month 3 20 seconds per rep, then I rotate back to 10 seconds again, starting the cycle over again.

Unfortunately, I've not been able to workout since the end of April because of having a stainless steel plate installed into my wrist. Should be able to start back again soon. Doc said another couple of weeks. I guess I'm paying for all those tough workouts in my youth. Ahhh, if I had only listened. But that's another story.

Yoda

[hkp2ksk]

yoda,

approximately 10 sec per rep (5" pos; 5" neg, including purposely slowed turnarounds) but that time will also vary somewhat as a function of the range of motion of the exercise. E.g., on my Nautilus Super Pullover, since it was so stupidly designed as to have no range limiter at the bottom of the negative, I limit all my trainees to no more than 7" (given how long the excursion is in the first place) negative and roughly 7" positive. For some folks with very short arms, I simply use the old Nautilus 2/4 rep speed because they report it gives them more control and they fear less losing it at the bottom.

Hmmm, interesting protocol of varying rep speed cycle. I've never done that, though I think that variation across routines is variable that has been given insufficient attention in terms of its potentially positive effects. I frequently vary the order of exercises within a routine across sessions for a given client. It seems to keep them from falling into an exercise rut induced by anticipating the "sameness" of each training session. I think it's an idea with merit, though, What has been your experience of doing it that way?

Damn, steel plate in your writs! not good to have go through that!! Was the injury strength training induced?

Get well, soon, my friend,

tony

[yoda]

Tony,

I know exactly what you mean with the timing and range of motion. Depending on the exercise you REALLY have to slow down when the rep speed is at 20 sec. per rep. Example being the full pullover versus tricep pushdowns.

I think the change up in rep speed helps to keep interest and helps with the strength development as well. We've got a little old lady here, she's a couple of years older than you, and she's doing leg press with 305# for 6 reps at a 20 second rep speed. And she only weighs in at 105 pounds. Five years ago she was in a walker. I think she's 73 now, walks every day, and racewalks, as well. Just a small example of how super slow can help a person progress.

The steel plate was installed because of damage done from all the years of competitive lifting. Both shoulders have been replaced, as well. I think the damage done to my wrists and shoulders was because of the heavy cleans and overhead lifts. Oh well, we live and learn. Unfortunately, sometimes the damage is done before we learn. I know this, I would not be doing any kind of resistance training if I hadn't learned about super slow back in the 90's.

Hey, hang in there, I am.

Yoda

[nowherefast]

Although I stand by my work-out I now see that I misrepresented my time. It was 6:52 not 42. Anyway, I really appreciated the feedback on alternative ways to use the DYNO and will try out next time I use it. Thanks!

[GeorgeD]

Without wanting to start an argument here, I have read enough articles and spoken to enough coaches to be quite confident in my opinion in that if you want to do weights for some 'mental' stimulation that is fine - if you want to do weights to erg faster over a 2k forget it.

To qualify that statement I would say that the best way to improve your times is to use your time rowing. If you have unlimited time then yes add in some weights to your programme of if your just rowing for fun then add in some weights to your programme but except over maybe 500m it is in general not going to help you. It is impossible to replicate the specific movements and interaction of joints with 'weights / machines' that are used in a rowing stroke, hence it is not improving your bio-mechanical efficiency.

Rambling on here but if you want a couple of articles to read drop me a PM and I will e-mail them to you

IMHO George

ps Cross training will not improve your rowing times either

[nowherefast]

I don't think you're starting an argument. It's a discussion. I don't doubt the research you cite. I also don't know the initial fitness level of maritito, who started this discussion. As a coach I valued once said, each of us is an experiment of one when it comes to training. Over many years of training for various sports I have come to value a balance in strength training and both aerobic and anerobic training. There's been some research (on the C2 site) asserting that use of the DYNO with rowing increases anaerobic threshold of involved muscles. Nothing in my training contra-indicates that. I'm sure you are right that when getting ready for training season while already in good shape, the best use of training time is rowing. But I believe you need to have a good base and balance of fitness to take advantage of intense training. If maritito is starting out, strength training should be a part of an overall fitness program to prepare the body for harder training. Strength training is an important component of being a healthy person over time and, although it may not improve the time of an already accomplished rower, like chicken soup, "it can't hurt!" Furthermore, again, although cross-training won't make you faster, my experience is that the shortest road to madness and burn-out (and over-use injury) is to do only one exercise all the time. Mentally, this "experiment of one" is fresher and eager for hard rowing after some time doing something else. Seeing your posts in other forums, you're "experiment of one" is doing just fine doing what you do!

[FB1]

Without wanting to start an argument here, I have read enough articles and spoken to enough coaches to be quite confident in my opinion in that if you want to do weights for some 'mental' stimulation that is fine - if you want to do weights to erg faster over a 2k forget it.

Again George not to start an argument, but a differing opinion personally i believe the lifting and cross training i've done over the years have just as much to do with my reasonable C2 times as the C2 work. I've also prefered intervals and fartlek over distance work. But then again each to his own, Ranger for example is very my volume oriented with what seems very little recorded structure, i like short workouts with minimal breaks and keeping good records (1 or 2 30-45 min workouts per day at the most).

Cheers
GW