HR vs WL

Rowing for weight loss or weight control? Start here.
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hjs
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Re: Heart Rate and Weight Loss

Post by hjs » August 12th, 2006, 4:30 am

According to that, my max is 138. I spent well over an hour in the mid 140s yesterday doing an HM, so I don't think that the calculator results have much meaning.

Bob S.[/quote]

Bob,

The meaning is that you workout over that max you are not in the aerobic range and going into the anaerobic range. You are using more sugar than fat for energy. You may prefer to workout that way but you will not be expanding your aerobic range (fat burning). When you start training in this aerobic zone it almost always feels too easy. Over time you will find that you have to work harder to reach this lower HR but in the beginning it does seem easy. The benefit is that you will burn fat and build endurance.

BTW, I find that Karvonen Heart Rate Calculator result TOO HIGH and think that Philip Maffetone's formula works better for most ages. Those younger than 20 or older than 70 need to make adjustments to his forlmula.[/quote]

No bob max is much higher than 138. This is not 220 min your age. that's a simple quite useless average.[/quote]

I'll stick with what I wrote, I find the Karvonen formula too high, I prefer Phil Maffetone's formula. I've achieved better results using that. This is my opinion and of course your's may vary. I never said that 138 was his max only that he would get better results working at a lower HR. That has been my experience. Remember he posted because he was training so hard yet not losing weight. He can continue to train hard and not lose weight or take a step back and examine what he's doing and consider that if it is not working doing it this way maybe he should consider changing what he is doing.[/quote]

The way I understand it he was doing a Hm not as training but as a timed piece. The fact that his hartrate was above the 138 most of the row says pretty clear that his max is much higher.
I said nothing about how he should train, I only talked about max hartrate and that is a very individual thing. Find you own max, don,t use formula's for that, stick to the fact's

nteeman
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Re: Heart Rate and Weight Loss

Post by nteeman » August 12th, 2006, 7:13 am

hjs wrote:
nteeman wrote:
Rick

http://www.briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm

According to that, my max is 138. I spent well over an hour in the mid 140s yesterday doing an HM, so I don't think that the calculator results have much meaning.

Bob S.

Bob,

The meaning is that you workout over that max you are not in the aerobic range and going into the anaerobic range. You are using more sugar than fat for energy. You may prefer to workout that way but you will not be expanding your aerobic range (fat burning). When you start training in this aerobic zone it almost always feels too easy. Over time you will find that you have to work harder to reach this lower HR but in the beginning it does seem easy. The benefit is that you will burn fat and build endurance.

BTW, I find that Karvonen Heart Rate Calculator result TOO HIGH and think that Philip Maffetone's formula works better for most ages. Those younger than 20 or older than 70 need to make adjustments to his forlmula.

No bob max is much higher than 138. This is not 220 min your age. that's a simple quite useless average.
I'll stick with what I wrote, I find the Karvonen formula too high, I prefer Phil Maffetone's formula. I've achieved better results using that. This is my opinion and of course your's may vary. I never said that 138 was his max only that he would get better results working at a lower HR. That has been my experience. Remember he posted because he was training so hard yet not losing weight. He can continue to train hard and not lose weight or take a step back and examine what he's doing and consider that if it is not working doing it this way maybe he should consider changing what he is doing.

The way I understand it he was doing a Hm not as training but as a timed piece. The fact that his hartrate was above the 138 most of the row says pretty clear that his max is much higher.
I said nothing about how he should train, I only talked about max hartrate and that is a very individual thing. Find you own max, don,t use formula's for that, stick to the fact's



What facts?

Strange post. :shock:
-nteeman

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hjs
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Re: Heart Rate and Weight Loss

Post by hjs » August 12th, 2006, 1:13 pm

What facts?

Strange post. :shock



I ment: use your own max hartrate, not some formula. Those can be very wrong.

Bob S.
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Re: Heart Rate and Weight Loss

Post by Bob S. » August 12th, 2006, 6:47 pm

nteeman wrote:
hjs wrote:
nteeman wrote: Bob,

The meaning is that you workout over that max you are not in the aerobic range and going into the anaerobic range. You are using more sugar than fat for energy. You may prefer to workout that way but you will not be expanding your aerobic range (fat burning). When you start training in this aerobic zone it almost always feels too easy. Over time you will find that you have to work harder to reach this lower HR but in the beginning it does seem easy. The benefit is that you will burn fat and build endurance.

BTW, I find that Karvonen Heart Rate Calculator result TOO HIGH and think that Philip Maffetone's formula works better for most ages. Those younger than 20 or older than 70 need to make adjustments to his forlmula.
No bob max is much higher than 138. This is not 220 min your age. that's a simple quite useless average.
I'll stick with what I wrote, I find the Karvonen formula too high, I prefer Phil Maffetone's formula. I've achieved better results using that. This is my opinion and of course your's may vary. I never said that 138 was his max only that he would get better results working at a lower HR. That has been my experience. Remember he posted because he was training so hard yet not losing weight. He can continue to train hard and not lose weight or take a step back and examine what he's doing and consider that if it is not working doing it this way maybe he should consider changing what he is doing.
Henry,

I got that 138 value using the Karvonen Heart Rate Calculator in the URL provided in one of the messages. I recognized it as coming out about the same as the simple minded 220 - age and decided right then and there that it was a lot of crap.

nteeman,

Frankly, I can't understand what the hell you are going on about. I am not trying to lose weight at all. I am not training hard at all. I erg only 3 times a week. I happened to do a half marathon last Monday, just to have another nonathlon entry. It wasn't too shabby either. It was a minute and forty seconds faster than the one I did last year and that one was a WR for both LWT and HWT as well. The bit about my working in the anaerobic range is absolute nonsense - well over an hour in the anaerobic range!!?? Very few can do that for even as long as a minute.

Bob S.

nteeman
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Re: HR vs WL

Post by nteeman » August 12th, 2006, 7:08 pm

DJerome wrote:I have been rowing for many years (just past 15 million meters) and have a question about weight loss and aerobic exercise, specifically with the Concept2.

STRICTLY ON THE BASIS OF LOSING WEIGHT (my emphasis), is it better to row 'as hard as you can', or use a heart rate monitor and keep your heart rate 'in the zone'? And by that I mean keep your heart rate at something around 85% of the defined maximum.

The reason I ask is that I tend to row above the maximum; it just feels sort of comfortable. But I'm not losing much weight. And I was wondering if actually slowing down my pace (and heart rate) would improve weight lose.

I usually row 10K but lately have been trying 15k.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
DaveJ
Somebody posted that. That was what I was trying to address. :D

You can work out for quite some time out the aerobic zone but you will eventually run out. Some call it 'hitting the wall.' Successful endurance athelethes train to expand their aerobic zone so this doesn't happen to them.
-nteeman

LJWagner
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Post by LJWagner » August 18th, 2006, 6:57 pm

The "most fit" do multiple types of workouts. The Pete Plan comes to mind as one such set of workouts.
Do your warm-ups, and cooldown, its not for you, its for your heart ! Live long, and row forever !
( C2 model A 1986 )

drkcgoh
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Post by drkcgoh » October 11th, 2006, 5:26 pm

I heard Dr. Bill Haskell speak at the ACSM, when he admitted to being the person who came out with the 220-Age formula, and he said he was apalled at the number of people who thought it was etched in stone because he and his boss just came out with that formula out of the blue, without any clinical research to back it up. He only meant it as a rough guideline with + and- 15 beats on either side leeway.
I also met Leonard Kaminsky who researched quite a bit at Ball State U, & came out with his more accurate 205-1/2 Age formula. Then there's the other formula adopted by the ACSM in its handbook.
Try to remember that Karvonen's fomula and all these fancy calculations are just guidelines, and there is no fun being a slave to them. In my early days of marathon running, and even now I still wear the latest Polar HRMs, and download them to keep track of my fitness. I even brought my morning resting HR down to 41, and weight down to 137 lbs (on a 5'10 frame ) from eating evertying I laid my eyes on & erging a marathon a day.
Row (long & slow) for health- for the long race to achieve quality life when old, and to cut down on the medical bills and crippling ailments that may come from your genetics. Scientific advances change too much, especially in these days of commercialized Medicine for us to be a slave to the latest ideas. Hermits tend to live longer and healthier in isolation, away from all these tempting & confusing newfangled advances that are so easily overturned daily.
drkcgoh-MD

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