The psychology of the 'Handle down' - ?

[GeorgeD]

I have at times been know to put the handle down on a hard session - usually a distance or timed row often close to max pace. What has annoyed me the most about these instances is that I am hard pressed to ever think of an instance where this aberration has had a physical cause - it is invariably always mental.
Yes it was tough at the time and was not going to get any easier, but hey I knew that before I started after all that was the object duh .... and yes I am not alone in this and yes there is some satisfaction in picking up the handle again and finishing, but that aint as good as finishing what I started.

What are your thoughts on 'the handle down' psyche, and how do you think it can be overcome.

George

[hjs]

I think it has to do with your state of mind. You have to be ready to dig deep if you are planning a hard effort.
For me, If I handle down, i seldom do,
it is always a cause of mentally "not being ready" to do the row.
Picking up the handle and finishing for me mean zilch , handle down is handle down, even not being able to keep pace is handle down for me.

If you really go for it and gamble a bit on the pace and you have to stop then I would not call it a handle down.

I think if it happens to often you are to aiming to high on an average in your training and you should ease of a bit, really going 100% should be limited for races only, then you should be prepared mentally to really push yourself to the limit.

[RowtheRockies]

For me "handling down" is 100% mental. I just started rowing in December but in 17 years of running, I only stopped and walked once in a race. I would estimate I have run over 200 races from 1600M to Marathon. I have stopped and walked more often during a workout. In a race, you have the motivation of competition that pushes you much further physicaly than you can do on your own in training. The one time I stopped and walked in a race however was not mental. Mentally I did not want to stop but my body said NO and it stopped.

I once read a quote about the marathon being "90% mental and 10% in your head" I think that is definitely true. I would bet that anyone on this forum could physically complete a running marathon if their life depended on it even if they don't train for running. It would not be very pretty but they could do it.

Rich

[johnlvs2run]

I think every session should be a success, and if the handle is going down too much then something isn't going quite right.

However, if you feel like putting the handle down then go ahead and set it down. There is a reason for feeling that way, i.e. (1) you were going too hard for your training session to be of good benefit, (2) you hadn't warmed up enough, (3) both of those.

There is no reason to train all out too aggressively at 100% every session and, I think, there is no reason to go 100% in any of them, unless you are in a time trial (even then maybe 95%) or a race. Rather most sessions should end up at 85% effort or less and many of them at 70% effort or less.

You can overcome the syndrome by backing off and focusing on getting more from the effort you're using.

[TomR]

If you handle down in training, you're working at the wrong pace. You can always pick up and continue and have the session be a success.

If you handle down during a trial, it's a failure of will. If it happens frequently, you probably have an inflated sense of your ability. For me the two key reasons to do a trial are to take a reading of my progress and to build confidence. Quitting defeats the purpose of the endeavor. Being of weak character, I have put the handle down.

The only reason to put the handle down in a race is an injury.

Tom

[JimR]

What are your thoughts on 'the handle down' psyche, and how do you think it can be overcome.

George

In general training is about doing a little more than you did last time, constant improvement. I think this is the same with "mental training" as well. When the workouts get really hard you have to try to hang on a finish ... otherwise you are training to quit.

Even with this perspective there are a couple subtle issues I can think of ... (a) choosing pieces well beyond what is currently possible and (b) not being willing to do 100%.

In the case of (a) better planning is needed. Someone who is challenged by a 2:00 pace for a given workout is not going to suddenly acheive 1:45, no matter what the circumstances. Going for a 1:45 pace and quitting is not so much a mental issue as it is just being dumb. You might get to a 1:45 pace someday ... just not today.

The (b) situation can be trained through if you really want to get maximum performance. I don't think that a person would go out everyday to do a 100% workout but maybe half the time would be possible. I find intense workouts seperated by less intense (recovery?) workouts alows me to push performance better than constant improvement.

I also think that "graceful retreat" from a workout that proves to be too hard is better than the handle down approach. Don't quit but know your limits on the day in question ... and live to fight another day.

JimR

[mpukita]

Wow George, you must be omniscient. I handled down on a step test this very morning, on the 7th and final piece, 500M in, for the first time in a long, long while.

For me, there was no gracious retreat. My goal was to determine max HR, and at 141 I lost all ability to keep pace and rate up to drive HR higher. I was just about bang on for the prior 6 steps, but probably should have known something was wrong on step 6, as I had to take rate to 27 (too high) to sustain pace, which I missed by .1 (too slow).

I had a poor sleep last night due to a hiatal hernia attack at 2AM, and rowed OTW this morning 6AM to 8AM, but I still felt OK when I started.

What I can't determine is was it a mental lapse, or was it a physical inability due to fatigue? I did take yesterday off -- completely -- before today's attempt. And, no alcohol or caffeine for a few days.

I probably don't need to express how mad I was at myself for not being able to complete this. The 141 HR is nowhere near the 163 I saw in a workout a month ago, and 163 isn't my max, so I'm still stuck wondering. I'm on BP meds and I want to know what my max really is as the meds indicate that I should have a depressed max HR and thus the calculators should indicate too high of a max for me.

I agree with Tom R, there is no excuse, other than injury, for not completing a race. To do so, I believe, would be a slippery slope.

Is anyone else out there on BP meds, and have any of you found out how much of an impact the meds have on your max HR? Just curious. If you'd prefer not to post your data here, please send me a PM or an e-mail. I would very much appreciate hearing your experience.

Thanks!

[RowtheRockies]

Mark,

I was on BP meds for a period of three years about 6 years ago. My Dr. initially put me on Inderal (sp)? which is a beta blocker. It totally put my running into the crapper. I could never get my HR above about 150 (Max not on meds about 180) and would really have to push it hard to get it to 150. I was on them for about two months and then went back and said ENOUGH. He switched me to some other non-beta blocker and I had no side effects.

What type of meds are you on?

Rich

[tennstrike]

What are your thoughts on 'the handle down' psyche, and how do you think it can be overcome.

By "handle down" I'm sure you also mean giving up on the target pace, e.g. throttling back to 2:05 or even 2:10 during a 2K you're trying to train at 1:54. The most frequent culprit for me is during a 2K. It's happened twice trying for a PB and a few times during a regular training session. I waited a week each time and tried again for the PB (at a second slower than the "missed" time) rather than going for it the next day. On the training, I simply changed my target times for the following week to the last time that I actually did and then started moving faster after that. It moved the training schedule back two weeks, but at least I was hitting targets.

For sure it is a mental letdown combined with being just a tad overly optimistic. While we all know the feeling and the subsequent slight depression. But it's probably not a terrible thing if it only happens every other month or so. It means you're pushing yourself. Any more frequently, however, I think you need to re-evaluate your training plan and go more gradually.

[mpukita]

Rich:

I'm on Tenormin (or Atenolol is the generic I believe). It's also a beta blocker. 50mg/day.

I've hit HR 163 recently ... but it may have been a very early morning workout before taking my meds at 8AM. Can't remember.

Thanks!

-- Mark

[JimR]

I handled down on a step test this very morning, on the 7th and final piece, 500M in, for the first time in a long, long while.

Isn't a step test a "go until failure" format? If so, doesn't every step test end with a "handle down"?

I'm thinking this isn't what George was asking about exactly. I might just not be clear on your step test protocol ...

JimR

[FB1]

There are other reasons that may cause you to be unable to follow your planned workout.

-You could be slightly dehydrated (many causes that are hard to factor, travel, coffee, even different ac settings).

-Glycogen levels off (not fully recovered from previous workout, missing a meal, high glycemic lunch causing blood sugar dip will affect afternoon performance.

-An over use injury to a particular joint/muscle may cause you to apply your effort in a slightly different sequencial order, which will in turn cause premature fatigue in the muscle that are acting in a compensatory capacity.

George IMO most of the better rowers that i have seen drop the handle are doing so because their mind is telling them that there IS something wrong. However if this becomes habitual then the mind may be the weak link not the body!!

FB

[mpukita]

I handled down on a step test this very morning, on the 7th and final piece, 500M in, for the first time in a long, long while.

Isn't a step test a "go until failure" format? If so, doesn't every step test end with a "handle down"?

I'm thinking this isn't what George was asking about exactly. I might just not be clear on your step test protocol ...

JimR

Jim:

Yes, I guess you are right, but I guess it's the type of "failure" that frustrated me. I did not just slow down slowly as I was unable to row the pace. I hit the wall. I handled down, thought, "Crap, I can do this!" Picked it up, rowed 100M, and down again. Repeated the handle up/handle down thing one last time just to be sure to get the nails in the coffin, but clearly never found MAX HR, which is what the test was supposed to do.

Maybe I should have started slower, although that would have been almost impossible. Maybe I should have taken smaller steps, although these were the steps prescribed.

This was my first attempt, so I'm unclear as to what I could have done to get the desired result.

Anyone else have experience with a step test? What's been your luck with it?

Regards -- Mark

[mpukita]

In general training is about doing a little more than you did last time, constant improvement.

In my opinion, if taken verbatim, this is a recipe for failure from overtraining ... you've got to have some lighter recovery days that surely won't be a little more than what was done the day before. In fact, a really, really strong workout might require going backward in pace to recuperate properly. I do not feel it's a simple as do a little more, do a little more, do a little more. Much more complicated than that.

I hope what you meant Jim is that over time, you need to move forward with the length and/or intensity of workouts in order to have the same training effect, and get better. You're not suggesting constant, every day, improvement in distance/pace, are you?

-- Mark

[jjpisano]

Today I had a handle down experience. I rarely ever completely stop a workout. Today I did because I had a very unusual experience. I was sweating profusely but everything was OK I was handling the intensity of the workout and suddenly I felt chaffing going on in the back of my rowing shorts at the seam. It was sharp and painful and I basically had 10 minutes left to go and I tried to struggle through the sharp pain for a minute and a half more and I said "To hell with this; I'm not going to end up with an ulcer of my skin because I'm too bone-headed to stop when I'm feeling sharp pain."

I've been recently struggling but this had nothing to do with my struggles. I've changed my workouts to intervals at the intensity I was working at before. I'm slowly but surely increasing the volume within the context of intervals rather than uninterupted work. I'm thinking that alot of my struggles at this point are due to the heat and humidity. There will be occasional mornings this summer where it will be cooler and I'll do uninterupted work on those mornings. Soon enough late summer and autumn will bring cooler mornings and I'll get back to mostly uninterupted work.

But to get back to my main point, I'm not going to injure myself to finish a workout. What about tommorrow and subsequent workouts that will be affected by a skin ulcer. I usually am a little upset with myself when I fail a workout and I'm usually very mad at myself for completely stopping but today my thoughts are "oh well, it happens". I don't think I've ever had sharp chaffing pain at the seam of my rowing shorts before and I very much doubt it'll happen again soon so I don't think I'm going to go out of my way to decrease the risk of it happening again. If it becomes a common occurence then I'll start worrying about it.