After buying and now getting through about 2M+ meters on my C2/D, I decided that I should try to learn the real thing. So I went and took some beginners sculling classes and joined my local rowing club. I didn’t realize how difficult this was going to be.
I have to admit, I’ve only got about 20 hours so far on the water so I really shouldn’t get discouraged, but it’s not as easy as I was thinking it was going to be. I’m still just trying to keep my hands together at the catch and through the drive. For the uninitiated, these sculling shells are very tippy. An imbalance in the vertical height of the oars can be enough to cause you to tip the shell over and go for a swim.
Even going in a straight line is hard to do. Everything has to be perfectly in balance. If there is a difference in the rotation of one oar vs the other, if you pull harder with one vs the other, if you catch one earlier than the other, if you push harder with one leg than the other, then you tend to turn. And then there is this whole going backwards thing to deal with. You have to turn your head all the time to make sure that you don’t run into something.
Sometimes, I’ll go through a burst of strokes that are pretty good. Then other times, I will totally mess up each stroke until I finally stumble back into the groove.
One thing that I hadn’t really thought about with sculling is how peaceful it is to be out there on the water early in the morning. The water is still and you can see down in the shallow areas. If there is no wind and other boat activity, you glide through the water with only the birds and the creaking of your seat on the rollers making any sound. There is something meditatively satisfying (Zen like) about doing this that probably all other rowers can relate to.
I think the difficulty has an appeal though. When I finally am able to do this, well it will be an accomplishment to be proud of.
In any case, I guess I just want to hear that mostly everyone else has these same problems and it just takes time.
On learning to scull
Re: On learning to scull
Congrats on your decision on going otw.davidn wrote:...
Sometimes, I’ll go through a burst of strokes that are pretty good.
...
One thing that I hadn’t really thought about with sculling is how peaceful it is to be out there on the water early in the morning. The water is still and you can see down in the shallow areas. If there is no wind and other boat activity, you glide through the water with only the birds and the creaking of your seat on the rollers making any sound. There is something meditatively satisfying (Zen like) about doing this that probably all other rowers can relate to.
I think the difficulty has an appeal though. When I finally am able to do this, well it will be an accomplishment to be proud of.
In any case, I guess I just want to hear that mostly everyone else has these same problems and it just takes time.
I have been rowing since I'm 8. What you describe when you get a few "perfect strokes" (they never are perfect), is what I call "the flow".
It's just the boat, the water, your crew (if any) and you. And the sound of the boat gliding through the water.
There are very few of these perfect moments, but I think that's the real reason why I still love rowing.
Enjoy!
Here goes a (not very good) picture from about the first time I remember to "flow", in the eight when I was 13. It's me rowing on the 4
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!
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Rockin Roland
- 5k Poster
- Posts: 570
- Joined: March 19th, 2006, 12:02 am
- Location: Moving Flywheel
Changing over from erg to boat
The transition from erg to boat often brings initial dissapointment. But if you are patient and stick with it then the rewards will be far greater further down the track. Correct sculling technique is so much more difficult to learn than sweap oar in a crew boat. It can be made easier if you learn in a wider recreational hulled boat which requires less skill to balance.
When learning to scull or row on the water it is important to relax the upper body and feel for the balance. It's not like jumping on an erg and being able to apply full pressure from the very start. In a boat it could take several years before you acquire the skills to row at full pressure without hindering the run of the boat. For ergers it can be frustrating but once it all clicks you'll fall in love with the motion and be reluctant to return to the erg.
When learning to scull or row on the water it is important to relax the upper body and feel for the balance. It's not like jumping on an erg and being able to apply full pressure from the very start. In a boat it could take several years before you acquire the skills to row at full pressure without hindering the run of the boat. For ergers it can be frustrating but once it all clicks you'll fall in love with the motion and be reluctant to return to the erg.
PBs: 2K 6:13.4, 5K 16:32, 6K 19:55, 10K 33:49, 30min 8849m, 60min 17,309m
Caution: Static C2 ergs can ruin your technique and timing for rowing in a boat.
The best thing I ever did to improve my rowing was to sell my C2 and get a Rowperfect.
Caution: Static C2 ergs can ruin your technique and timing for rowing in a boat.
The best thing I ever did to improve my rowing was to sell my C2 and get a Rowperfect.
Sculling...
For me, I first learned to row in an 8, then did work on the Erg, The finally moved into sculling, with no help, i was just kinda thrown in and told to allways keep my hands on the oars. In my first 3 outings a overturned twice. I hated it, With everything in my, i wished i never would have to scull again.
Now 8 months on, i just got 3rd in the Men's Open 500 meter sprint Scull (Lightweight) in Hong Kong. I love sculling, the peaceful nature, yet the grace and speed of the scull.
Here are my tips,
Be presistent.
Work hard on square blades. (This will help you work on balance)
Practice just the catch. (so start in the catch postion, blades just above the water, find balance, then raise your shoulder's, sink your blades and push your feet forward about a foot,. Keeping doing this, balance again.
I wish i did this earlier on, my learning curve would have been much steeper.
Hope that helps, keep it up, its worth it in the end.
Now 8 months on, i just got 3rd in the Men's Open 500 meter sprint Scull (Lightweight) in Hong Kong. I love sculling, the peaceful nature, yet the grace and speed of the scull.
Here are my tips,
Be presistent.
Work hard on square blades. (This will help you work on balance)
Practice just the catch. (so start in the catch postion, blades just above the water, find balance, then raise your shoulder's, sink your blades and push your feet forward about a foot,. Keeping doing this, balance again.
I wish i did this earlier on, my learning curve would have been much steeper.
Hope that helps, keep it up, its worth it in the end.
500m = 1:40
2k = 7:27.7
TKS 06
2k = 7:27.7
TKS 06
Hi David,
I too am in the process of learning sculling. What surprises me a bit is that you say with about 20 hours you are still struggling with balance. What kind of shell are you using?
My learning started with a weekend at the Craftsbury Sculling Center in Vermont. By the end of Saturday I was feeling pretty comfortable in a Peinert Zephyr and on Sunday morning went out in a MAAS 24. Seems to me that you should be in one of the wider shells until you get your sea legs.
It is hard to work on perfecting your stroke when you're worrying about staying upright.
Frank
I too am in the process of learning sculling. What surprises me a bit is that you say with about 20 hours you are still struggling with balance. What kind of shell are you using?
My learning started with a weekend at the Craftsbury Sculling Center in Vermont. By the end of Saturday I was feeling pretty comfortable in a Peinert Zephyr and on Sunday morning went out in a MAAS 24. Seems to me that you should be in one of the wider shells until you get your sea legs.
It is hard to work on perfecting your stroke when you're worrying about staying upright.
Frank
[size=75][color=blue]M 61 6'3'' (1.90m) 195lbs (88kg)
500m-1:30.4 1K-3:17.6 2K-6:50.5 5K-17:59.9 6K-21:38.6 10K-36:54.1 HM-1:19:53.7 FM-2:47.08.6 30m-8151 60m-15862 [/color][/size]
500m-1:30.4 1K-3:17.6 2K-6:50.5 5K-17:59.9 6K-21:38.6 10K-36:54.1 HM-1:19:53.7 FM-2:47.08.6 30m-8151 60m-15862 [/color][/size]
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Byron Drachman
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1124
- Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 9:26 pm
Exactly! I agree with Mkoll that square blade and the Russian catch drill are good ones, and there is no hurry to get into a long, skinny boat.In any case, I guess I just want to hear that mostly everyone else has these same problems and it just takes time.
Another suggestion I have is to ask expert rowers what you should be working on whenever you can, and to row doubles with good rowers whenever you can and always ask for rowing tips. Sooner or later you take a few good strokes, and then if you're like me, you'll be hopelessly addicted to on-the-water rowing.
Byron
This is my fourth season sculling and reading these posts reminds me what it was like when I started. I have just moved up to a skinny boat from a rec boat. I feel like I have come a long way.
I have a lot of bad habits and I think to back when I was starting, and learned those bad habits. They would tell me all these things I should do (some of them still tell me those very same things) and I was just trying to stay upright. My advice is to keep at it. Your body needs to learn the balance and leave your brain out of it. It takes time.
There is one guy at our club who frequently says "it's a nice day to learn to row." He is in his 70s, and has been rowing since college.
bw
I have a lot of bad habits and I think to back when I was starting, and learned those bad habits. They would tell me all these things I should do (some of them still tell me those very same things) and I was just trying to stay upright. My advice is to keep at it. Your body needs to learn the balance and leave your brain out of it. It takes time.
There is one guy at our club who frequently says "it's a nice day to learn to row." He is in his 70s, and has been rowing since college.
bw
guess what i did!!!??? i sculled a quad today for the first time!!!!
im so happy because my coach said i have natural sculling talent compared to the rest of the team and in general. he said he wasnts to put me in a double scull and race!!! coooooool.
P.S.- erging does not help sculling technique..thats my oppinion.
im so happy because my coach said i have natural sculling talent compared to the rest of the team and in general. he said he wasnts to put me in a double scull and race!!! coooooool.
P.S.- erging does not help sculling technique..thats my oppinion.
Male 18 164.8lbs 6'3"
2000m- 7:11.1 March 1, 2009
100m- 16.7s March 5, 2009
SUNY Albany
2000m- 7:11.1 March 1, 2009
100m- 16.7s March 5, 2009
SUNY Albany
Great news, Ben! Sculling is the best way to start. I was a sweep rower in my student days and didn't get a chance to get into sculling until 40 years later. Good scullers generally have no problem adapting to sweep rowing, but it doesn't work that well the other way around.Ben Rea wrote:guess what i did!!!??? i sculled a quad today for the first time!!!!
im so happy because my coach said i have natural sculling talent compared to the rest of the team and in general. he said he wasnts to put me in a double scull and race!!! coooooool.
P.S.- erging does not help sculling technique..thats my oppinion.
With regard to erging, when I was involved in OTW masters' competitions a few years ago, some of my crew mates used to gripe that my erging was messing up my sweep technique. As a side note, when I set the record early this year, the guy that ribbed me the most about this made quite a point about buying the machine that I had used. I had already made arrangements to purchase one of the satellite regatta model Ds and thought that I would get the one I used - until I found out that it had already been set aside for him.
Bob S.
Great that you like Sculling Ben, the ability to scull will give you more options when it comes to OTW competition too which is always good. I also think that good sculling technique can really complement sweep technique - something that isnt really true the other way around.
I used to love going out in a double at my last club. Unfortunately a move for work, and my new clubs lack of sculling boats means my outings have dried up recently. Off home at the weekend though, so may try and get an outing with someone then.
I used to love going out in a double at my last club. Unfortunately a move for work, and my new clubs lack of sculling boats means my outings have dried up recently. Off home at the weekend though, so may try and get an outing with someone then.
Ray Hughes, Milton Keynes Rowing Club
28, 6ft 5 (195 cms), 74kg (163 lb).
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1195826361.png[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mr2maniac/ppirc7-1.jpg[/img]
28, 6ft 5 (195 cms), 74kg (163 lb).
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1195826361.png[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mr2maniac/ppirc7-1.jpg[/img]
Where I live, the kids (and most beginners) usually start learning how to scull. When I was younger, there were no sweeping competitions for kids under 14!
Later they are teached how to sweep, the ideal situation should be to learn bord and starbord, but in many cases you stick to the side where you sat your first time...
Although now I sweep much more than I scull, I prefer sculling, as it is a much more balanced feeling.
I have no difficulty rowing at high rates in a double or a quad, but in a single it's very difficult for me tro row above 30 spm...
Later they are teached how to sweep, the ideal situation should be to learn bord and starbord, but in many cases you stick to the side where you sat your first time...
Although now I sweep much more than I scull, I prefer sculling, as it is a much more balanced feeling.
I have no difficulty rowing at high rates in a double or a quad, but in a single it's very difficult for me tro row above 30 spm...
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!
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rowbear
20 hours !?!
If you happen to live in SA (Australia), I am more than happy to show how to balance the boat - all I need is five minutes. I've taught lots of friends to row, of all shapes and ages. All have picked up the basics in no more than 30 minutes and all stayed dry (until I pulled a mean little stunt on them, but I usually wait an hour or so before I do that). Still, once you get the hang of it, I encourage you to make mistakes - it's how you learn, and once you get over the fear of 'falling in' by actually falling in, you get rid of those falling in nerves, which are the cause of most falling in problems. As for stroke, you'll never have them all perfect all of the time. Part of the fun of rowing (sculling) is looking for that perfect one, followed by another, for as long as you can.
If you happen to live in SA (Australia), I am more than happy to show how to balance the boat - all I need is five minutes. I've taught lots of friends to row, of all shapes and ages. All have picked up the basics in no more than 30 minutes and all stayed dry (until I pulled a mean little stunt on them, but I usually wait an hour or so before I do that). Still, once you get the hang of it, I encourage you to make mistakes - it's how you learn, and once you get over the fear of 'falling in' by actually falling in, you get rid of those falling in nerves, which are the cause of most falling in problems. As for stroke, you'll never have them all perfect all of the time. Part of the fun of rowing (sculling) is looking for that perfect one, followed by another, for as long as you can.
I agree with everything here.
I got OTW for the first time the end of May. Our first course was all sweep. Starting in an 8, then in a 4. This second course, so far, all sculling in a quad. I find sculling much easier than sweeping in terms of keeping the boat set, rowing together, etc. The most frustrating (so far) was keeping the boat set in the 4. Daydream for a millisecond and you're cooked.
What's the concensus on starting this way to evolve into a single, versus just taking sculling lesson in a single? Will it be easier or harder for me to row a single now? What should I expect?
Next course (next spring) will be a small boat course - double, pair, single. I'm going to bet the pair will be a diasaster first row!
Then, on to finding a LW novice masters crew for a competitive (ha ha) quad!
Biggest realizations are that technique conquers strength OTW (by far), slowing down (the rate), rowing "perfect", and letting the boat run generates much more speed than high rate flailing, and that the more one relaxes and has a light touch on the blades the better -- they find their way as if on autopilot.
Oh yeah, and, as Byron emphasized to me in a PM ... early roll-up makes life so much easier than trying to flip and catch at the last millisecond to go in the water square. At least as a beginner.
Now, I just need to work on the zillion other aspects at which I suck.
This will provide a lifetime of opportunity to get better, for sure.
I got OTW for the first time the end of May. Our first course was all sweep. Starting in an 8, then in a 4. This second course, so far, all sculling in a quad. I find sculling much easier than sweeping in terms of keeping the boat set, rowing together, etc. The most frustrating (so far) was keeping the boat set in the 4. Daydream for a millisecond and you're cooked.
What's the concensus on starting this way to evolve into a single, versus just taking sculling lesson in a single? Will it be easier or harder for me to row a single now? What should I expect?
Next course (next spring) will be a small boat course - double, pair, single. I'm going to bet the pair will be a diasaster first row!
Then, on to finding a LW novice masters crew for a competitive (ha ha) quad!
Biggest realizations are that technique conquers strength OTW (by far), slowing down (the rate), rowing "perfect", and letting the boat run generates much more speed than high rate flailing, and that the more one relaxes and has a light touch on the blades the better -- they find their way as if on autopilot.
Oh yeah, and, as Byron emphasized to me in a PM ... early roll-up makes life so much easier than trying to flip and catch at the last millisecond to go in the water square. At least as a beginner.
Now, I just need to work on the zillion other aspects at which I suck.
This will provide a lifetime of opportunity to get better, for sure.
Mark Pukita
48 / 5'7" or 1.70 m / 165 lbs. or 75 kg
1:38.3 (500m) 07NOV05// 3:35.2 (1K) 05NOV06// 07:10.7 (2K LW) 25FEB07// 20:16.0 (5K) 20OCT05// 23:54.1 (6K) 20DEC06// 7,285 (30min) 27NOV05// 41:15.7 (10K) 19NOV05// 14,058 (60min) 29NOV05
48 / 5'7" or 1.70 m / 165 lbs. or 75 kg
1:38.3 (500m) 07NOV05// 3:35.2 (1K) 05NOV06// 07:10.7 (2K LW) 25FEB07// 20:16.0 (5K) 20OCT05// 23:54.1 (6K) 20DEC06// 7,285 (30min) 27NOV05// 41:15.7 (10K) 19NOV05// 14,058 (60min) 29NOV05
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rowbear
I first learned to row on a single. I'm sure there are lots of arguments for which one is the best way to learn and my slant is for the single. Once you've been on a single a few times and safely navigated 1000m up and back, you'll have some idea of what a row should feel like. After that, if you put a bunch of novices into a quad scull, it may be a while before you're all on the same page, but at least you'll all be in the same book (sorry for cheesy analogies). Same novices with no background, I predict they'll perfect getting back into the boat after a spill before they safely navigate the same 1000m lap.