Model E

[[old] gaffano]

Any one have thoughts on what improvements and enhandements a future Model E should have? Also any thoughts on what year a Model E would replace a the D?

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-gaffano+Feb 26 2005, 11:08 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gaffano @ Feb 26 2005, 11:08 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any one have thoughts on what improvements and enhandements a future Model E should have? Also any thoughts on what year  a Model E would replace a the D? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I think the Model E might a long way coming i.e. 10 plus years. It took about 10 years to come out with the Model D after the C launch, and the changes while mostly welcome are fairly modest functionally. The differences between the C and the B were more dramatic.<br /><br />The obvious answers to a major change would be to adopt the distinguishing features from their nearest competitors (Waterrower or Rowperfect). In both cases, going that route would probably like the New Coke fiasco in the 1980s. You would alienate many of the current legions of C2 fans, reaffirm your competitor as have 'gotten it right the first time', and have performance values that are not compatible with old rankings and records. <br /><br />More likely, I think the Model E will just be an evolution rather than a revolution. You will see the machine probably get sleeker looking. Perhaps an ergonomically improved seat and a redesigned footplates with a larger, very sophisticated performance monitor with features more akin to a laptop by today's standards. This would obviate the need to perhaps hook up the erg to a separate computer.

[[old] Bayko]

The one thing that I'd like would be a venue-race-starting-simulator. At home or at the gym we are used to the monitor starting after we have made our first pull (I believe that the clock doesn't start until the recovery). Real racing in any other sport doesn't work that way, and erging doesn't either at the big events like CRASH-B's and BIRC. The clock starts when the gun or horn sounds or the monitor reads ROW.<br /><br />It would be nice to have that option on the PM3 so that we could practice race starts at home. Instead of waiting for us to pull we could choose to have the SIT READY..... ATTENTION..... ROW.....that we see at the venues.<br /><br />Maybe that could even be programmed into the next update of the PM3 instead of waiting for the Model E.<br /><br /><br />Rick

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-akit110+Feb 26 2005, 07:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(akit110 @ Feb 26 2005, 07:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The obvious answers to a major change would be to adopt the distinguishing features from their nearest competitors (Waterrower or Rowperfect).  In both cases, going that route would probably like the New Coke fiasco in the 1980s.  You would alienate many of the current legions of C2 fans, reaffirm your competitor as have 'gotten it right the first time', and have performance values that are not compatible with old rankings and records.  </td></tr></table><br />I agree and think this doesn't need to be a long time in coming, depending only on the open mindedness of C2.<br /><br />Along with this, making the erg --silent-- (or relatively so) should be a not very difficult task to accomplish.<br /><br />I do agree that C2 should make Bayko wait and start when the monitor says "okay are you ready, Bayko? now GO!" <br /><br />In the meantime and for the rest of us C2 needs to come into the modern world and have races start the same as in other sports -- skiing for example -- where the monitor gives the accurate time by starting and stopping when the competitor does, not by some arbitrary measure that has nothing to do with the rower's performance.<br /><br />In line with this, the pm4 should incorporate features that were standard with the pm2 and lost with the pm3 and, yes, keep bringing the monitor into the present with more up to date features as we have on computers.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

By the way, even with a ready-set-GO mass start, you can still have the monitor time each individual competitor from when each rower starts to finishes.<br /><br />This is really the only equitable way to have starts, whether mass starts or individually in one's home.

[[old] SimonB]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Feb 26 2005, 11:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Feb 26 2005, 11:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The one thing that I'd like would be a venue-race-starting-simulator.  <br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you choose a Race start type in RowPro, you get the full 1 - Attention, 2 - Sit Ready, 3- Row countdown.<br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ergonomically improved seat and a redesigned footplates </td></tr></table> <br /><br />When I row strapless the top part of my foot hangs out over the edge of the footplate. I happen to walk with my feet far apart and with a toe-out position. It would be nice if the footplate had more adjustment possible so my foot would be fully supported. But that's probably just me so maybe that wouldn't be worth the trouble to make all C2's with more adjustment possible for the feet. <br /><br />I have seen other people complain about pain in the butt when doing a long row such as a marathon. I could envision a seat that has adjustable or movable indentations under the sitz bones. Yes, I realize that padding is available but it would be nice if the seat could be made more comfortable.<br /><br />Byron

[[old] ebolton]

A quick-change seat with a few options available, including one with the contour of the current seat but made in fiberglass or hard plastic.<br /><br />Sometimes, too much padding acts to istribute load to places that should not be loaded.<br /><br />On the bike, I ride an old-school, relatively hard seat (a Brooks). Not everybody can or does. Choice is the answer.<br /><br />Ed

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A quick-change seat with a few options available, including one with the contour of the current seat but made in fiberglass or hard plastic.<br /><br />Sometimes, too much padding acts to istribute load to places that should not be loaded.<br /><br />On the bike, I ride an old-school, relatively hard seat (a Brooks).  Not everybody can or does.  Choice is the answer.<br /><br />Ed<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Ed,<br /><br />I couldn't agree more. For riding a road bike, the Brooks Pro is the best saddle ever made. There is nothing more comfortable than that heavy leather saddle. At least for me, I should say. And you're right. They're not for everybody. I wish Brooks would make a heavy leather seat for the ergometer. The problem is that it would be expensive. <br /><br />Byron<br />

[[old] Bayko]

<!--QuoteBegin-SimonB+Feb 26 2005, 08:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(SimonB @ Feb 26 2005, 08:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Feb 26 2005, 11:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Feb 26 2005, 11:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The one thing that I'd like would be a venue-race-starting-simulator.  <br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you choose a Race start type in RowPro, you get the full 1 - Attention, 2 - Sit Ready, 3- Row countdown. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yet another reason for me to stop procrastinating . I WILL get Rowpro, I will .<br /><br />Rick

[[old] akit110]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Feb 26 2005, 09:49 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Feb 26 2005, 09:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A quick-change seat with a few options available, including one with the contour of the current seat but made in fiberglass or hard plastic.<br /><br />Sometimes, too much padding acts to istribute load to places that should not be loaded.<br /><br />On the bike, I ride an old-school, relatively hard seat (a Brooks).  Not everybody can or does.  Choice is the answer.<br /><br />Ed<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Ed,<br /><br />I couldn't agree more. For riding a road bike, the Brooks Pro is the best saddle ever made. There is nothing more comfortable than that heavy leather saddle. At least for me, I should say. And you're right. They're not for everybody. I wish Brooks would make a heavy leather seat for the ergometer. The problem is that it would be expensive. <br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I also use a Brooks saddle (on my old 1962 Dunelt 3-speed). Nothing is more comfortable. I find the more padding a saddle has, the more comfortable it feels initially and the more rapidly it becomes uncomfortable. The most uncomfortable saddles to me are those big gel-filled saddles found on 'comfort' bikes. I guess with cycling, the duration of activity warrants the development of good seats (rowing <i>typically</i> is a shorter duration activity). <br /><br />The current C2 seat is thankfully not too padded or contoured. Though obviously room for improvement is there. I could have seen a gel-filled, 'anatomically correct' contraption which would have been much, much worse.<br /><br />

[[old] NavigationHazard]

As long as we're dreaming, how about a monitor slot for a wireless card so that realtime data can be sent to a PC w/o a cumbersome cable connection (or the post facto, sneakernet business with the LogCard).<br /><br />A somewhat bigger footprint for the legs would help us big guys. Depending on the floor surface, the damper setting and my level of friskiness, I can make the erg do a small 'wheelie' on the drive. More area on the floor -- or a different configuration of what's there -- would make it harder to rock the erg back on the rear support. It also would help cut down the tendency of the erg to dig holes in the gym mats I put under it.<br /><br />Teflon coating for the first foot of chain would help protect it from the extremely corrosive effects of flying sweat (and spit).<br /><br />A small plastic hook or support on the back leg so that the chain can be pulled all the way out and secured for easy oiling.<br /><br />A way to adjust the footstraps up or down, so that when you move the stretcher the straps can come across your shoes at the same point. For those of us with really (really) big feet, when the stretchers are nearly all the way down the straps are below the ball of the foot....<br /><br /><br />

[[old] SimonB]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Feb 27 2005, 06:46 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Feb 27 2005, 06:46 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-SimonB+Feb 26 2005, 08:36 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(SimonB @ Feb 26 2005, 08:36 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Feb 26 2005, 11:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Feb 26 2005, 11:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The one thing that I'd like would be a venue-race-starting-simulator.  <br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you choose a Race start type in RowPro, you get the full 1 - Attention, 2 - Sit Ready, 3- Row countdown. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yet another reason for me to stop procrastinating . I WILL get Rowpro, I will .<br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />"Don't delay, buy one today !" <br />

[[old] Bayko]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Feb 27 2005, 01:28 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Feb 27 2005, 01:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />A small plastic hook or support on the back leg so that the chain can be pulled all the way out and secured for easy oiling.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yes! I've thought the same thing many a time when I wanted to oil the chain but found myself alone in the house. I end up deciding to wait for a time when my wife is around, then forget to do it. Excellent idea. <br /><br />Rick<br />

[[old] whp4]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Feb 27 2005, 04:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Feb 27 2005, 04:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Feb 27 2005, 01:28 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Feb 27 2005, 01:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />A small plastic hook or support on the back leg so that the chain can be pulled all the way out and secured for easy oiling.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yes! I've thought the same thing many a time when I wanted to oil the chain but found myself alone in the house. I end up deciding to wait for a time when my wife is around, then forget to do it. Excellent idea. <br /><br />Rick <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />With the new handle, at least, it's easy to lash the handle to the back of the back support with a bit of wire, twine, old tube sock, etc. My big problem is finding the "safe place" I left the oil in the previous month. Self, if this discussion is still active at the end of March (JR, we're counting on you), it's in the top drawer under the toolbox