Hi - first post, but have been lurking for a while. I have recently begun training here at 8500 feet and am dismayed not to see the splits going down as I thought they would. I have read the post about training at altitude and appreciate all the insight there. Also, wondering if anyone has had trouble bumping up the stroke rating? Currently doing long steady state pieces and am consistent at about 22-24 spm. Can hold 27 -28 spm for short periods, but feel pretty rushed. What are you altitude rowers typically rowing your steady state pieces at (spm)?
Also - anyone ever rowed on Lake Dillon? Wondering how to find out more info about the rowing program there - Thanks -
Amy
colorado rowers
amr
Here's a quote directly from the physics of rowing website
"you would expect your erg power scores to fall off at the same rate or split times to increase by 1% for every 210 m due to the cube relationship between power and speed".
So between 8500 feet and sea level there would be about 2576 m difference.... which means if there is a 1% difference in pace every 210m. 2576/210 is 12.27. There fore the pace 12.27% slower at 8500 feet.
So a real world example:
Say a rower can do a 2:00/500m pace at sea level; then that rower can reasonably expect to be able to do a 2:14.7/500m pace at 8500 feet.
Row the Rockies recently posted that he has recently done a 7:27 2k @ 7000 feet. 7000 feet is equal to 2121 m which means his pace is 2121/210% slower or 10.1% slower than a sea level pace.
7:27 2k is a 1:51.75 pace, which would be 10.1% slower than his sea level pace.
I may be wrong but his sea level speed would be a 2k with a 1:41.5/500m pace or a 6:46.
Here I am a guy with a personal best 2k of 6:52 giving advice to a guy who could do a 6:46, if he only rowed at sea level.
Here's a quote directly from the physics of rowing website
"you would expect your erg power scores to fall off at the same rate or split times to increase by 1% for every 210 m due to the cube relationship between power and speed".
So between 8500 feet and sea level there would be about 2576 m difference.... which means if there is a 1% difference in pace every 210m. 2576/210 is 12.27. There fore the pace 12.27% slower at 8500 feet.
So a real world example:
Say a rower can do a 2:00/500m pace at sea level; then that rower can reasonably expect to be able to do a 2:14.7/500m pace at 8500 feet.
Row the Rockies recently posted that he has recently done a 7:27 2k @ 7000 feet. 7000 feet is equal to 2121 m which means his pace is 2121/210% slower or 10.1% slower than a sea level pace.
7:27 2k is a 1:51.75 pace, which would be 10.1% slower than his sea level pace.
I may be wrong but his sea level speed would be a 2k with a 1:41.5/500m pace or a 6:46.
Here I am a guy with a personal best 2k of 6:52 giving advice to a guy who could do a 6:46, if he only rowed at sea level.
Jim SWCSPI Pisano
-
RowtheRockies
- 6k Poster
- Posts: 853
- Joined: March 22nd, 2006, 3:21 pm
- Location: Colorado
Amy,
As of about a week ago I started a program that I learned from Jim (jjpisano) that calls for 20SPM. The idea is you start at a level that is 75-80% of your 2K average watts. For me that was 2:03 (188 Watts). You start the cycle by doing 20 minute steady row after warming up at the level that is 75-80% and then you add one minute each workout until you reach 40 minutes. Once I get up to 40Minutes I will retest and start the cycle over again at the hopefully higher avg. watts from my test. Only have done 3 sessions so far but I love it. Rowing at 20SPM feels good.
I am surprised that you are having trouble reaching higher SPM's as it seems like it is usually the opposite. What kind of an exercise background do you have. I think for endurance athlete's that strength and power is lacking and that is why I am working on the low rate stuff and I seem to be adapting well. If you come from a weight lifting background, you may be better off working at a higher SPM.
Welcome aboard!
Rich
As of about a week ago I started a program that I learned from Jim (jjpisano) that calls for 20SPM. The idea is you start at a level that is 75-80% of your 2K average watts. For me that was 2:03 (188 Watts). You start the cycle by doing 20 minute steady row after warming up at the level that is 75-80% and then you add one minute each workout until you reach 40 minutes. Once I get up to 40Minutes I will retest and start the cycle over again at the hopefully higher avg. watts from my test. Only have done 3 sessions so far but I love it. Rowing at 20SPM feels good.
I am surprised that you are having trouble reaching higher SPM's as it seems like it is usually the opposite. What kind of an exercise background do you have. I think for endurance athlete's that strength and power is lacking and that is why I am working on the low rate stuff and I seem to be adapting well. If you come from a weight lifting background, you may be better off working at a higher SPM.
Welcome aboard!
Rich
40 YO 6'1" 180 lbs. Rowing at 7,000 Ft.
SB's
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1213378765.png[/img]
SB's
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1213378765.png[/img]
-
RowtheRockies
- 6k Poster
- Posts: 853
- Joined: March 22nd, 2006, 3:21 pm
- Location: Colorado
Jim,
Wow that is interesting but I can't imagine pulling a 6:46 that is just light years away from where I am currently. I know the few times I have run at sea level I have felt like I could run forever and my pace is quite a bit quicker but that seems like a huge difference in Wattage. Maybe I will haul my Rower up to the top of Pikes Peak and do a session to test out the 1% increase for each 210 Meters. The additional 2133 Meters would mean that my 7:27 would equate to a 8:12. Bet I would get some strange looks!!
Wow that is interesting but I can't imagine pulling a 6:46 that is just light years away from where I am currently. I know the few times I have run at sea level I have felt like I could run forever and my pace is quite a bit quicker but that seems like a huge difference in Wattage. Maybe I will haul my Rower up to the top of Pikes Peak and do a session to test out the 1% increase for each 210 Meters. The additional 2133 Meters would mean that my 7:27 would equate to a 8:12. Bet I would get some strange looks!!
40 YO 6'1" 180 lbs. Rowing at 7,000 Ft.
SB's
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1213378765.png[/img]
SB's
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1213378765.png[/img]
Thanks Jim - it should be interesting to travel to sea level this summer and see what the splits are - I don't think I will be as disheartened now...
Rich - I actually come from a fairly extensive OTW rowing background - high school, college, post collegiate ltwt development camp, as well as some highly competitive club rowing about six years ago. i think my issue may be that i am so attuned to ratio - and not rushing the slide- that I just need to do some shorter, high intensity pieces. I was just wondering if anyone else at altitude had had this issue. I will try the forty minute cycle - thanks for the input Rich!
Amy
Rich - I actually come from a fairly extensive OTW rowing background - high school, college, post collegiate ltwt development camp, as well as some highly competitive club rowing about six years ago. i think my issue may be that i am so attuned to ratio - and not rushing the slide- that I just need to do some shorter, high intensity pieces. I was just wondering if anyone else at altitude had had this issue. I will try the forty minute cycle - thanks for the input Rich!
Amy
Amy, First, hello. I live in Evergreen at about 7600/7700 feet. I have rowed quite often at Lake Dillon. The rowing center there opens up the first part of June. Quite easy going and laid back, I highly enjoy it and recommend it heartlily. ~~~ As for erg training at altitude, for years I trained at rates around 30-34, and paces for steady state around 1:55, give or take a second or two, for sprints I did sessions of minute on, minute off at 34 and 1:36-1:37 x 15, In the past few years I have been working with Paul Smith and have worked hard on lowering my rate to the 25/26 range and pace into the 1:50 to 1:57 range for steady state pieces. Sprinting or intervals, whatever you want to name it, is usually at 1:39 to 1:43 and rate of 28 to 30. And all of it is done strapless. In the last year, at EIRC I set a age group world record (6:40.8)and then won Crash-b (6:41.8)for my age group, after having in the past few years seeing my times slide into the mid 6:40's My point being that lower rates and knowledge of technique are vital. And lastly as a couple of points of interest, consistently my times drop by about 2.5 to 3 seconds per 500 when I race at sealevel compared to the races done in Denver (5K ft). This is in line with a couple WR record holders (Mike Caviston and Graham Watt) who have come and stayed here with me and at our place in Summit county. They both felt that 3 seconds was a reasonable number to work with on what to add to their splits when they came "up" to altitude. Any Help? dennis
Amy< Last year the lady running it was, first name Harriet, her last name eludes me at the moment. If you have access to a Summit directory, the guy who can help you out is Stuart Voutour, used to own The Managers and the rowing center, but has shifted careers and now is in real estate. Another guy who lives in Breck that maybe you can track down is Scott Randolph. He rows out of the center and has great contacts with the rowing club up there> Yes there is a rowing club up there, sort of amusing story. Originally Stuart called it the Rocky Mountain Rowing Center (RMRC), but this caused much confusion with our rowing club in Denver (Rocky Mountain Rowing Club (RMRC), so the Dillon group changed to the Frisco Rowing Center. (Duh, maybe somebody might think of another Frisco). At any rate, try them and let me know if you have any success. Oh wait another thought, try at the Frisco Marina, they can probably give you the name and number of who to contact. dennis