s10mps versus varying stroke rate

[johnlvs2run]

I am talking about WR's, fastest times, PB's, competitions and the rankings.

What you are talking about must be something else.

[hjs]

I am talking about WR's, fastest times, PB's, competitions and the rankings.

What you are talking about must be something else.

my graph was a 6.06 2k by a 69 kg man. I know this is poorly/modest your eyes. ik think it is not so bad.

[PaulS]

Henry,

You must understand that if you have your head in 166F water and your feet in 32F icewater, you are "Standard body temperature on AVERAGE".

[johnlvs2run]

my graph was a 6.06 2k by a 69 kg man.

Yes, Elia Luini's weight was 152 pounds.

It is nice we have something to agree on.

However, your graph was not of his fastest time, where he was at 8 meters per stroke and over 40 spm.

Why didn't you post that one, which I did in the previous forums.

Your graph of his stroke rate during a slower effort, is additional proof of the merits of his 6:02.6 record.

[whp4]

This rate of 37.8 spm for a 7:00 2k is a total of 264 strokes.

Dividing 2000 meters by 264 strokes shows that Bayko was averaging 7.56 meters per stroke.

Don't let the innocent newbies know of this though.

We don't want them to get hurt.

John, what was your stroke rate and/or stroke length for your last sub-7 2k? Discuss...

[johnlvs2run]

Bill,

I will post them when I get a chance to look them up.

[Sean Seamus]

boys !
girls !
STOP STOP STOP

I began this thread, and only 2 responses have had anything to do with the question. All the rest seem to be part of an on-going feud.

- nyah nyah nyah stoopy-stoop stoopy-stoop

To reasonably respond to my query, you need to be familiar with
---- the "original 2k training plan" as published by C2 UK.
- and -
---- s10mps, as promulgated by Paul S.

You don't have agree with them, just know what they are.
Both plans are - in my opinion - PLANS - that is outlines, not carved in granite by Moses and his many mensches.

I am not a World Class Rower.
The Issue is not how to row a 2 k race.

Please go back to the original post, and if you have any opinions regarding the question, I would appreciate your ideas.

Otherwise, please start a new topic.
It could be named Rupp is Right. Or, Ranger is a Danger. Whatever.
You'll all find each other I'm sure.

Thanks.

[lintonwilson]

Sean/Jim,


Thanks for the replies. My apologies, I should have been more specific in my post. I’m building a rudimentary workout generator spreadsheet and thought some of this stuff would be at hand. Your input was helpful. I revisited the formula issue this evening and came up with these. Pretty sure they are correct, but if not I know I’ll hear about it. I’m sure others use them as well; I just don’t recall any specific posts with these exact formulas. I’m most likely the only dummy thinking along these lines but it does keep my noodle occupied during the steady state stuff.


For Meters per Stroke (MPS) MPS =500/(86400*pace)*60/rate

You can enter pace in EXCEL as time format (mm:ss.0). No conversion to seconds necessary. This may be helpful when wishing to calculate MPS when doing rate-restricted workouts or any rows not specifically geared towards a specific MPS (10mps). I.E. if one rowed a 60 minute 2:03.1 @ 20 the MPS would be 12.19. Might be fun to graph MPS improvement with this.


For Stroke Rate (SR) at a given pace and MPS SR= 500/(86400*pace)*60/mps

This may be useful for calculating what rate to use for a specific MPS. I.E. if your workout is scheduled at a 1:52.7 pace and you wanted to row at 10 MPS your rate would be 27. Many other fun ways to use this as well.

Here are a couple other basic formulas:

Watts = 2.8/((86400*pace/500))^3 (again pace is mm:ss.0 in excel)

To calculate pace from watts: pace = 500/POWER(watts/2.8,(1/3))/86400

If a 60-minute rate restricted workout pace is 2:02.8 wattage is 189 (189=2.8/((86400*2:02.8/500))^3), and at a 20 rate SPI is 9.45 (189/20). Then if your goal in subsequent workouts was to up SPI by say .5 (a lot i know) to 9.95 your new target pace will be 2:00.7.

One other thought on MPS. Why isn’t MPS used as a measure of improvement vs. say SPI?

[michaelb]

I thought I had responded to this thread early on, in response to the original post, but now I remember my post got lost somehow when posting.

I think you are mixing methodologies. Following the 10mps discipline, your rows are governed by a combination of a pace and a SR, but not limited by HR. So you would row the pace/sr target regardless of what your HR is for that row. Other plans, the UK plan or the one posted by Xeno, limit your UT1 long rows to a HR target. So they are fundamentally different approaches to training.

To really understand Pauls' 10mps as a discipline, you should read the thread that summarizes the Stop the Madness plan. This recommends 8k rows done at a moderate intensity, that get progressively harder each day. So there is no "easy" or low HR rows in that plan. Your 8k rows may start at 2:20 pace and SR=21 range for example, and get harder from there.

http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10098

I can't now find any of the old original references to this plan on the old US forum, or the old old US forum, so this may be the only remaining summary that exists.

[Yankeerunner]

Sean,

First apologies for getting sidetracked .

Second, I agree with michael that the methodologies are different. I've done both, and tried to combine the two. With S10MPS you would be working in a smaller range of SRs and paces. By maintaining the 10mps discipline the intensity grows rapidly.

I'm not shue what you mean about "original 2000m" plan from the UK site. I'm assuming that you mean the Interactive Plan. If so, then something to remember is that each heartrate zone is a range of values, not just a strict number. That is, assuming that you choose say 7:52 as a reference point, then UT1 would not be simply 2:12 pace but anything between the 2:16 top of the UT2 band down to 2:12. Therefore an easy week could be UT1 of 22spm 2:15 while a hard week could be UT1 of 24spm 2:12. Likewise AT, when you get to that stage, could be 26spm 2:11 on an easy week down to 28spm 2:04 on a hard week.

Doing the UK plan strapless would go a long way to getting some of the value of S10MPS while working in a wider range of paces and heartrates. While it wouldn't ingrain the strict drive/recovery ratio of S10MPS it would work on technique by helping you to avoid using the straps to stop the drive (thereby wasting the energy that could otherwise be put into the flywheel) and to avoid using the straps to rush the recovery (thereby maintaining a better drive/recovery ratio).

I have found that I can do my UT2, UT1, and AT work strapless. I can't seem to get past 28 spm without strapping in though. I know that it can be done, so my technique obviously needs more work. Maybe I'll get there yet.

Both plans are good, just different.

Rick

[Sean Seamus]

Yankeerunner wrote :
I'm not shue [sure] what you mean about "original 2000m" plan from the UK site

what I am referring to is the
"Indoor Rowing Training Guide, version 2"
Section 5, pages 5.10 through 5.14, tables 5.5, 5.6, 5.7.

The Interactive comes just after.
As I had absolutely zero idea of how to row, or train for anything, when I began 18 months ago, this plan was a Huge Help. I kinda guessed at my training band HR's, strapped on an HR monitor, and set off.

I have read a lot since, and rowed many hours, and am starting to form a few thoughts, mostly still inchoate.

There is a lot written on the UK site regarding the applicability of the Pace Guide as shown in Table 5.8. That is a topic just outside of what I am trying to discuss here at this time.

As for the strapless part of the equation, we are on exactly the same page.

Thank you for the contribution
~ Sean