This last bit is quite interesting to think about, I'd suggest the following. If individuals are less likely to hurt themselves in the boat due to lack of stability and technique, would they be less likely or more likely too pull hard enough to hurt themselves on the Erg when they feel stable (Fixed Seat) or unstable (Articulating Seat)? If a Rower is injured during the rowing motion, in a boat or on the Erg it is likely due to poor technique, being out of position, and driving hard enough to do damage. I'd imagine the less stable they feel, the less likely driving hard is going to to be. I'm quite cautious regarding my lower back due to an old but severe injury, and I have found the CP1 to be quite beneficial. The most I've ever gone continuously on it is 6k and will probably set 2k as the upper limit in normal training intervals, though I reserve the right to change my mind since the indoor season is ove and I'm spending time in a boat these days.almostflipped wrote: As an aside, what are the odds of being injured using this device due to the instability? On the water, you have a great deal of instability however lack of technique often prevents people from pulling hard enough to injure themselves prior to developing the necessary balance. On the erg though, I could see a person having a greater ability to push too hard too soon. Can anyone with experience with this device comment?
Super new product I swear by to complement your Concept2!!!!
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PaulS
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
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almostflipped
- 1k Poster
- Posts: 101
- Joined: April 5th, 2006, 2:48 pm
I see your point on this, however I also think it would be easier to create the load on an unstable erg than an unstable boat. The inability to lock at the catch due to lack of stability or technical skill is what creates diminshed loads and thereby removes the rower's ability to pull hard. On an erg however it is quite possible to create a lock as there is no water for the oar to slip out of. In essence, all you have to do is pull and the lock is created. In the end you are probably right though, athletes who are capable of pulling hard during the instability will likely be able to handle it, where as athletes who are less experienced will likely back off. Somewhere inbetween will be the less experienced but stubborn athlete who tries to pull when they shouldn't, really those are the ones I worry about, but they will likely hurt themselves even with a stable seat. Erging or rowing, the same problems occur again and again.If individuals are less likely to hurt themselves in the boat due to lack of stability and technique, would they be less likely or more likely too pull hard enough to hurt themselves on the Erg when they feel stable (Fixed Seat) or unstable (Articulating Seat)?
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Krysta Coleman
- 500m Poster
- Posts: 76
- Joined: March 17th, 2006, 4:25 pm
- Location: Alberta, Canada
I have to say I am pretty tempted to try this out. Abdominals have always been a weak area for me, and even more so after having a baby.
I am one who will likely not see myself in a boat in the near future but I think this might be usefull enough for the average erger. I guess for the same reasons that I prefer free weights (dumbells/barbells) over fixed cable machines for certain exercises at the gym. That is, so many stabilizing muscles are recruited into the exercise beyond the main target muscles. It would be a real bonus if the unstable seat also helped improve my stroke technique.
I probably wouldn't consider buying something like this from an unknown retailer with a little website with no picture. But I do respect and trust Paul Smith. How much is shipping to Canada?
- Krysta
I am one who will likely not see myself in a boat in the near future but I think this might be usefull enough for the average erger. I guess for the same reasons that I prefer free weights (dumbells/barbells) over fixed cable machines for certain exercises at the gym. That is, so many stabilizing muscles are recruited into the exercise beyond the main target muscles. It would be a real bonus if the unstable seat also helped improve my stroke technique.
I probably wouldn't consider buying something like this from an unknown retailer with a little website with no picture. But I do respect and trust Paul Smith. How much is shipping to Canada?
- Krysta
5'7", 35 years old, trying to regain fitness. Old PBs:
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Byron Drachman
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1124
- Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 9:26 pm
Hi Krysta,
Is anyone around your house handy with tools? You can test the concept before you spend the money if you want.
Last year I didn't know about the CorePerform seat but I wanted to have a seat that can set to be unstable from side to side. There was a posting about it on the old forum.
You just need two pieces of plywood about 8 inches by 9 inches. Remove the seat from your C2 and drill holes and fasten the bottom piece to the seat support. Add two narrow strips in front and back. Now you need a wooden dowel. You can make one from the handle from a broken garden tool, or get a wooden dowel at the hardware store. While at the hardware store get four nuts and bolts to attach the bottom piece of plywood to the frame, and get longer versions of the screws that held the C2 seat and use them to attach the C2 seat to the upper piece of plywood after you trim the top piece so it fits snugly on top of the lower piece and inside the two strips with the dowel removed. If you insert the wooden dowel, you are very unstable from side to side. With the dowel removed, the seat is stable. With the seat unstable it is a great ab and core workout. I added two thin strips to hold the dowel in place. Go here for a photo of how I did it.
http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/row/rockin_seat7.jpg
By the way, I prefer using an old Maas sculling seat with a C3 pad trimmed, but just pretend the seat is the conventional C2 seat.
If you just want to take a few strokes with an unstable seat, remove the C2 seat, place a scrap of wood on top of the seat frame, and put a wooden dowl or rolling pin between the seat and scrap of wood to get the feeling. It would be best also to have a scrap of wood between the seat and dowel.
I am guessing you're going to like using a seat that can be set unstable, and in that case you'll probably go ahead and buy the CorePerform seat. This simple wooble seat would be just to see if want to make the purchase. Everybody says the CP seat is very nice. They have provided a nice C2 add-on for the indoor rowing community.
added later:
Paul mentioned in an earlier thread that he recommends sitting on a Swiss ball while watching TV if I remember right. Also, Xeno Muller's upper body indoor rowing workout helps strengthen the core and arms, and also works on flexibility. It's great fun.
Also, I didn't try this, but instead of a wooden dowel you could use a wood or hard ball and put indentations in the plywood pieces to keep the ball in place, so that when you insert the ball you would be unstable in all directions.
Byron
Is anyone around your house handy with tools? You can test the concept before you spend the money if you want.
Last year I didn't know about the CorePerform seat but I wanted to have a seat that can set to be unstable from side to side. There was a posting about it on the old forum.
You just need two pieces of plywood about 8 inches by 9 inches. Remove the seat from your C2 and drill holes and fasten the bottom piece to the seat support. Add two narrow strips in front and back. Now you need a wooden dowel. You can make one from the handle from a broken garden tool, or get a wooden dowel at the hardware store. While at the hardware store get four nuts and bolts to attach the bottom piece of plywood to the frame, and get longer versions of the screws that held the C2 seat and use them to attach the C2 seat to the upper piece of plywood after you trim the top piece so it fits snugly on top of the lower piece and inside the two strips with the dowel removed. If you insert the wooden dowel, you are very unstable from side to side. With the dowel removed, the seat is stable. With the seat unstable it is a great ab and core workout. I added two thin strips to hold the dowel in place. Go here for a photo of how I did it.
http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/row/rockin_seat7.jpg
By the way, I prefer using an old Maas sculling seat with a C3 pad trimmed, but just pretend the seat is the conventional C2 seat.
If you just want to take a few strokes with an unstable seat, remove the C2 seat, place a scrap of wood on top of the seat frame, and put a wooden dowl or rolling pin between the seat and scrap of wood to get the feeling. It would be best also to have a scrap of wood between the seat and dowel.
I am guessing you're going to like using a seat that can be set unstable, and in that case you'll probably go ahead and buy the CorePerform seat. This simple wooble seat would be just to see if want to make the purchase. Everybody says the CP seat is very nice. They have provided a nice C2 add-on for the indoor rowing community.
added later:
Paul mentioned in an earlier thread that he recommends sitting on a Swiss ball while watching TV if I remember right. Also, Xeno Muller's upper body indoor rowing workout helps strengthen the core and arms, and also works on flexibility. It's great fun.
Also, I didn't try this, but instead of a wooden dowel you could use a wood or hard ball and put indentations in the plywood pieces to keep the ball in place, so that when you insert the ball you would be unstable in all directions.
Byron
Last edited by Byron Drachman on May 11th, 2006, 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PaulS
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
The total shipping for a CP1 to CAN would end up being $30.Krysta Coleman wrote:I have to say I am pretty tempted to try this out. Abdominals have always been a weak area for me, and even more so after having a baby.
I am one who will likely not see myself in a boat in the near future but I think this might be usefull enough for the average erger. I guess for the same reasons that I prefer free weights (dumbells/barbells) over fixed cable machines for certain exercises at the gym. That is, so many stabilizing muscles are recruited into the exercise beyond the main target muscles. It would be a real bonus if the unstable seat also helped improve my stroke technique.
I probably wouldn't consider buying something like this from an unknown retailer with a little website with no picture. But I do respect and trust Paul Smith. How much is shipping to Canada?
- Krysta
BTW - Even the core perform folks should have a good picture now, I gave them permission to use the one I created for my site.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
-
PaulS
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1212
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
The EU appears to be pretty consistent at $45 (At least consistent enough that I am willing to use that as a quoted figure for the EU.), though Duty and VAT will be collected by the relevant authority.laupi wrote:And how abot postage to Germany?>
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
Xeno/ Paul
Just received one of this courtesy of PaulS. It arrived yesterday all the way from the USA, many thanks to Paul for his prompt response in answering all of my queries and his courtesy and patience in this matter. I had all sorts of problems with Paypal
Firstly, it truly is a doddle to fit. It was literally 5 minutes from start to finish, it almost took as long to remember how to break the Concept2 in 2 and put it back together again at the end.
Secondly, I tried the seat in “wobble” mode, I have renamed it “capsize” mode. I realise how unbalanced I am when tugging on the bar. I no longer think of it as off water rowing. Hopefully I will relearn the balance I once had from on water rowing 20 odd years ago. I managed to get through 500m in 2:30 with dropping onto the side stops 4 times, however I did have to strap in to maintain balance. I only ever strap in when doing 2k or shorter distance PB attempts. I will work on getting a better more balanced movement before going back to strapless in “capsize” mode. I have noticed that already I have had to get the hands away quicker at the finish to stop capsizing and that I also do not compress as much at the catch. I think these are both bad habits I have learnt erging rather than rowing. So the long pregnant pause that I always thought I had when erging at a low rate will soon be gone, I cannot balance on the CP1.
The only reason for getting one was that I have problems from an accident 18 years ago that damaged L4/L5. I have had to do a lot of exercise to stregthen my Multifidus. I have found this depressing and frustrating and hope that the CP1 will stop the need to have to do the exercises I am currently doing.
Once again many thanks Paul, it was a pleasure doing business with you. Will update in a few weeks time when I have got on with it a bit better.
Regards
Rob
Just received one of this courtesy of PaulS. It arrived yesterday all the way from the USA, many thanks to Paul for his prompt response in answering all of my queries and his courtesy and patience in this matter. I had all sorts of problems with Paypal
Firstly, it truly is a doddle to fit. It was literally 5 minutes from start to finish, it almost took as long to remember how to break the Concept2 in 2 and put it back together again at the end.
Secondly, I tried the seat in “wobble” mode, I have renamed it “capsize” mode. I realise how unbalanced I am when tugging on the bar. I no longer think of it as off water rowing. Hopefully I will relearn the balance I once had from on water rowing 20 odd years ago. I managed to get through 500m in 2:30 with dropping onto the side stops 4 times, however I did have to strap in to maintain balance. I only ever strap in when doing 2k or shorter distance PB attempts. I will work on getting a better more balanced movement before going back to strapless in “capsize” mode. I have noticed that already I have had to get the hands away quicker at the finish to stop capsizing and that I also do not compress as much at the catch. I think these are both bad habits I have learnt erging rather than rowing. So the long pregnant pause that I always thought I had when erging at a low rate will soon be gone, I cannot balance on the CP1.
The only reason for getting one was that I have problems from an accident 18 years ago that damaged L4/L5. I have had to do a lot of exercise to stregthen my Multifidus. I have found this depressing and frustrating and hope that the CP1 will stop the need to have to do the exercises I am currently doing.
Once again many thanks Paul, it was a pleasure doing business with you. Will update in a few weeks time when I have got on with it a bit better.
Regards
Rob
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Dokitoedele
- Paddler
- Posts: 16
- Joined: March 18th, 2006, 6:27 pm
OK, ordered the same from Xeno's site. The shipment was here in the Netherlands within a week. I have ordered quite a lot on internet and expect correct prices and shipping costs when ordering. In this case no way! After the ordering (with credit card) I did get the request to paypal another 25 euro's since the shipment costs had been incorrect. Fine, paid them, but when the package was presented it was COD (Cash on delivery) whatever that means, but I had to pay another 29 euro's. So I paid $149 + in total shipping and handling $66 is $215! Don´t get me wrong the product is ok, but was pisses me of is that you do not get the right picture re. the costs. and 215 bucks is simply too much for something as simple as this. And sorry Xeno, after ordering you were really quick with an e´mail but after that the responsiveness/follow up on my questions was pretty lousy. Will try to relieve the agressiveness on the erg, but I am not exactly a happy camper and feel somewhat misled, so potential international orderers, be aware.
I am sorry to hear this.
Do you know what the extra 29 euro was for you?
I ended up paying $100 for your shipping altogether.
I usually respond quickly, I don't know how we didn't connect.
It was not my intention to mislead you.
One thing is certain, I need to have a clearer understanding what the UPS charges are.
Thank you for your input.
XENO
Do you know what the extra 29 euro was for you?
I ended up paying $100 for your shipping altogether.
I usually respond quickly, I don't know how we didn't connect.
It was not my intention to mislead you.
One thing is certain, I need to have a clearer understanding what the UPS charges are.
Thank you for your input.
XENO
Olympic Gold & Silver
www.indoor-rowing.blogspot.com
www.ironoarsman.com
You can call me at 949-400-7630.
5:53 2k 2004 now slower.
www.indoor-rowing.blogspot.com
www.ironoarsman.com
You can call me at 949-400-7630.
5:53 2k 2004 now slower.
Wow - 215 USD for a seat - isnt that a bit steep - sounds like there was a money maker in between, which took it off your pocket. Hope to find a cheaper freight to Germany. Paul S shipping rate seems to be a bit less. Any one has experience to report? Thanks.Dokitoedele wrote:OK, ordered the same from Xeno's site. The shipment was here in the Netherlands within a week. I have ordered quite a lot on internet and expect correct prices and shipping costs when ordering. In this case no way! After the ordering (with credit card) I did get the request to paypal another 25 euro's since the shipment costs had been incorrect. Fine, paid them, but when the package was presented it was COD (Cash on delivery) whatever that means, but I had to pay another 29 euro's. So I paid $149 + in total shipping and handling $66 is $215! Don´t get me wrong the product is ok, but was pisses me of is that you do not get the right picture re. the costs. and 215 bucks is simply too much for something as simple as this. And sorry Xeno, after ordering you were really quick with an e´mail but after that the responsiveness/follow up on my questions was pretty lousy. Will try to relieve the agressiveness on the erg, but I am not exactly a happy camper and feel somewhat misled, so potential international orderers, be aware.
Are you sure the 29 euros wasn't some sort of customs duty? I understand the frustration that the price ended up higher than expected (I'd be unhappy, too!) but I don't think it is reasonable to expect Xeno to pay any customs charges or even to know how much they are...Dokitoedele wrote:OK, ordered the same from Xeno's site. The shipment was here in the Netherlands within a week. I have ordered quite a lot on internet and expect correct prices and shipping costs when ordering. In this case no way! After the ordering (with credit card) I did get the request to paypal another 25 euro's since the shipment costs had been incorrect. Fine, paid them, but when the package was presented it was COD (Cash on delivery) whatever that means, but I had to pay another 29 euro's. So I paid $149 + in total shipping and handling $66 is $215! Don´t get me wrong the product is ok, but was pisses me of is that you do not get the right picture re. the costs. and 215 bucks is simply too much for something as simple as this. And sorry Xeno, after ordering you were really quick with an e´mail but after that the responsiveness/follow up on my questions was pretty lousy. Will try to relieve the agressiveness on the erg, but I am not exactly a happy camper and feel somewhat misled, so potential international orderers, be aware.
Bill