What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 20th, 2005, 11:17 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 20 2005, 11:03 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Bill, Nice 4 X 1K! Have been struggling with this one myself. Current best is a 1:49.5 average on 15th September. Pete Marston has the 4 X 1K in his training plan, and he reckons that 4 X 1K with 5:00 rests should be rowed at 2K pace + 1. He also says that 8 X 500m with 3:30 rests should be rowed at 2K pace - 3. Therefore, based on your last 4X1, you should be just about ready to tackle the 7 minute barrier for 2K. What are your 8 X 500m times like? I am also looking to break 7 minutes in the next month or two, so I shall watch your progress with interest... </td></tr></table> Peter, I'm starting to really feel the results of the training I'm doing. (I posted it under the Wolvervine Plan discussion). Our times are pretty close across the board. I've been watching your posts as well to see how your workouts are going. My last 8x500 averaged 1:42.7, which was 2 weeks ago. I'll run that one again next Monday and have 1:42.0 as the goal. As you can see from the splits below, the last one was pretty consistent pacing. 1:42.9/1:42.9/1:42.8/1:42.4/1:42.9/1:42.9/1:42.7/1:42.1 I'm not going to attempt the 2k until I get the 4x1k down to 1:44.0 average. The decending splits last night were unintentional, but it just felt right. I'm not sure how that will translate to holding a solid 1:45, but that will be the next session's goal for the 4x1k. Let's keep at it and blow through the mysterious 7!!!

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 20th, 2005, 11:44 am

Bill, Looks like you are a way ahead of me on the interval stuff. My best 8X500 average is 1:44.2 set on Monday. Actually, I have recently realised that I was drastically overtraining and I have significantly revised my program, particularly regarding warmups and warmdowns. My interval times are just starting to come back down, as opposed to going up when I was overtraining. Doing 4X2K on Thursday and dreading it...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 20th, 2005, 12:07 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 20 2005, 11:44 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Bill, Looks like you are a way ahead of me on the interval stuff. My best 8X500 average is 1:44.2 set on Monday. Actually, I have recently realised that I was drastically overtraining and I have significantly revised my program, particularly regarding warmups and warmdowns. My interval times are just starting to come back down, as opposed to going up when I was overtraining. Doing 4X2K on Thursday and dreading it... </td></tr></table> We're on the same schedule. I did 4x2k last week and averaged 1:53.2, with the last one at 1:52.4. I know that dread feeling, but really only get it now with the 4x1k. I've worked through it by carefully selecting my paces and not going out too fast. (The decending splits last night just felt right, and were possible because I didn't start out too fast.) My warmup for last night was 5,500m. 2,500 meters of building to about 2:00 pace, followed by 250 @ 1:46, 750 easy (2:04), 250 @ 1:45, 750 easy, 250 hard (1:41), and the final 750 easy. I feel I need to really open everything up in the warmup to be able to perform. I cooled down with 1,500m of easy strokes (2:04 - 2:10). This Thursday, I'm doing the 3k/2.5k/2k pyramid on a 1:53 pace, so I'll be suffering right along with you. I'm amazed at my perception of these paces now versus when I got back on the erg in January. I remember settling for a 2:15 pace for a 20 minute workout. A few years ago, I thought I was in good shape when I pulled a 7.5k in less than 30 minutes. By having the motivation and a good training plan, I feel that I'm back to being an athlete again, and totally love these workouts.

[old] hennmart · Post by **[old] hennmart** » September 20th, 2005, 12:28 pm

Today: 1. 10k. 2 2k. 3. HM. Hennie

[old] JaneW. · Post by **[old] JaneW.** » September 20th, 2005, 10:55 pm

tonight cycling 50 min. am row on erg 30 min. improved by only 300 meters instead of 400. pm not a numbers person and always focusing on technique and enjoyment. right now, my main criteria is to get a faster freestyle stroke and to build a stronger body. All other work is consider conditioning work as I prioritize. ( I normally keep my goals and training data to myself and use this forum for comaraderied and motivation.)

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 21st, 2005, 10:06 am

10K S10MPS @ 24SPM Target pace 2:00.0. 39:43.7 1:59.1 24SPM Max HR 157 1K Splits: 1. 3:55.2 1:57.6 23 2. 3:58.3 1:59.1 24 3. 3:58.2 1:59.1 24 4. 3:59.5 1:59.7 24 5. 3:59.7 1:59.8 24 6. 3:59.6 1:59.8 24 7. 3:58.7 1:59.3 24 8. 3:58.5 1:59.2 24 9. 3:58.6 1:59.3 24 10. 3:57.6 1:58.8 24 Last time I tried this workout on 24th August, the target was 2:00 pace @ 25SPM and I failed miserably. Ended up with 41:39.5 averaging 2:04.9 pace. Today was so much better. Not only almost 2 minutes faster, but also at 24SPM instead of 25, (1st k was 1:57.6 @ 23SPM). Obviously, this means that I was pulling more than 10m/stroke. If anyone can tell me how to work out the MPS for 24SPM @ 1:59.1 I would be grateful. This strapless row felt so comfortable, I might be tempted to try for a 10K PB soon...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 21st, 2005, 10:39 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 21 2005, 10:06 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>10K S10MPS @ 24SPM Target pace 2:00.0. 39:43.7 1:59.1 24SPM Max HR 157 1K Splits: 1. 3:55.2 1:57.6 23 2. 3:58.3 1:59.1 24 3. 3:58.2 1:59.1 24 4. 3:59.5 1:59.7 24 5. 3:59.7 1:59.8 24 6. 3:59.6 1:59.8 24 7. 3:58.7 1:59.3 24 8. 3:58.5 1:59.2 24 9. 3:58.6 1:59.3 24 10. 3:57.6 1:58.8 24 Last time I tried this workout on 24th August, the target was 2:00 pace @ 25SPM and I failed miserably. Ended up with 41:39.5 averaging 2:04.9 pace. Today was so much better. Not only almost 2 minutes faster, but also at 24SPM instead of 25, (1st k was 1:57.6 @ 23SPM). Obviously, this means that I was pulling more than 10m/stroke. If anyone can tell me how to work out the MPS for 24SPM @ 1:59.1 I would be grateful. This strapless row felt so comfortable, I might be tempted to try for a 10K PB soon... </td></tr></table> Peter, Your MPS for that workout is 500/(24*(1+59.1/60)) or 10.5 MPS. [500meters / (SPM * Minutes)] FYI, 10MPS is achieved at 24 SPM and 2:05, 25 SPM and 2:00, 26SPM and 1:55.4. Regards,

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 21st, 2005, 10:47 am

Thanks Bill. Still dreading the 4X2K tomorrow, but will post the outcome...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 21st, 2005, 11:03 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 21 2005, 10:47 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks Bill. Still dreading the 4X2K tomorrow, but will post the outcome... </td></tr></table> It's only 8k! What pace are you targeting? I've worked through the dread by making sure I establish a pace I know I can hit, but that is still challenging. Then I start lowering the target on subsequent workouts. I messed up the 4x1k a few months ago, and was psyched out by the workout. (I targeted a 1:48 and quit on the second interval). However, I backed off on the pace the next time and targeted 1:50, and came in just over 1:49. As you saw from Monday's workout, I've pushed past my original goal and don't dread the workout as much. Based on your 10k you just rowed, and your other times, I'd guess you'd want to try the 4x2k at a 1:55.

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 21st, 2005, 11:21 am

Good guess. Will be aiming for 4X2K @ 1:55, based on 2K PB pace (1:46.2) * 1.08. Last time I tried 4X2K was 8th August with the same target pace. Rowed first two at 1:54.9 and 1:54.8, then slipped to 1:56.8 and 1:58.6 on the third and fourth. Ended up with 31:01.0 @ 1:56.3 average. That was with complete five minute rests in between each interval. Over the last couple of weeks, I have started rowing steady between intervals (after a drink and a stretch), and I find that it is easier to keep the motor ticking over between intervals rather than to stop/start/stop/start as I was before. Definitely enjoying my rowing again these days. When are you going for the sub-7 2K?

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 21st, 2005, 11:41 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 21 2005, 11:21 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Good guess. Will be aiming for 4X2K @ 1:55, based on 2K PB pace (1:46.2) * 1.08. Last time I tried 4X2K was 8th August with the same target pace. Rowed first two at 1:54.9 and 1:54.8, then slipped to 1:56.8 and 1:58.6 on the third and fourth. Ended up with 31:01.0 @ 1:56.3 average. That was with complete five minute rests in between each interval. Over the last couple of weeks, I have started rowing steady between intervals (after a drink and a stretch), and I find that it is easier to keep the motor ticking over between intervals rather than to stop/start/stop/start as I was before. Definitely enjoying my rowing again these days. When are you going for the sub-7 2K? </td></tr></table> My rest on this is 1.5k on a 2:32 pace. That works out to 7:36 total rest. Mike Caviston recommended these be done on a 15 minute interval, and that's generally what it works out to for me. I'm won't do a 2k time for at least 6 weeks. Although I may be right at the cusp, I want to do the training and let that determine my time. Therefore, I have one or two 4x1k workouts to do before I attempt it again. I want to do a 4x1k with all intervals under 1:44 before I do it. I'm still progressing with my workouts, so I don't see a need to stop and test just yet. This season's training is focused on the performance at the CRASH-Bs so the intermediate testing will be about bumping up my reference pace for all of my workouts. I'm also looking forward to the fall racing series on RowPro. If we do a 2k there, then that may be my next attempt.

[old] GutBustin' · Post by **[old] GutBustin'** » September 21st, 2005, 12:08 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(bmoore @ Sep 21 2005, 11:41 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(PeterWilkinson @ Sep 21 2005, 11:21 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Good guess. Will be aiming for 4X2K @ 1:55, based on 2K PB pace (1:46.2) * 1.08. Last time I tried 4X2K was 8th August with the same target pace. Rowed first two at 1:54.9 and 1:54.8, then slipped to 1:56.8 and 1:58.6 on the third and fourth. Ended up with 31:01.0 @ 1:56.3 average. That was with complete five minute rests in between each interval. Over the last couple of weeks, I have started rowing steady between intervals (after a drink and a stretch), and I find that it is easier to keep the motor ticking over between intervals rather than to stop/start/stop/start as I was before. Definitely enjoying my rowing again these days. When are you going for the sub-7 2K? </td></tr></table> My rest on this is 1.5k on a 2:32 pace. That works out to 7:36 total rest. Mike Caviston recommended these be done on a 15 minute interval, and that's generally what it works out to for me. I'm won't do a 2k time for at least 6 weeks. Although I may be right at the cusp, I want to do the training and let that determine my time. Therefore, I have one or two 4x1k workouts to do before I attempt it again. I want to do a 4x1k with all intervals under 1:44 before I do it. I'm still progressing with my workouts, so I don't see a need to stop and test just yet. This season's training is focused on the performance at the CRASH-Bs so the intermediate testing will be about bumping up my reference pace for all of my workouts. I'm also looking forward to the fall racing series on RowPro. If we do a 2k there, then that may be my next attempt. </td></tr></table> bmoore, so you do a total of 15 minutes for one of the 4x2k? ie, 2k, and then 7:30 or so at 2:32 pace? That last 2k do you still do the active rest afterwards? How about for 4 x 1k, is there an active rest as well? Both of you guys following which plan again? I'm still doing 30 minute rows strapless to try and get my general fitness level higher, although I'm also doing some 20 SPM for 30 minutes strapless as well. Obviously I'll be keen at some point in the next while to switch to an interval based Pete type Plan but was wondering if either of you could provide a little more detail on the schedule you follow so I can get used to this more in my mind? ie, when I take on one of these plans, I don't want to be spending 15 minutes a day trying to figure out what I should be doing for the workout, then being confused about what to do. thanks in advance if you get a chance to respond, gutbustin'

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » September 21st, 2005, 12:30 pm

I'm following the Wolverine Plan from which the Pete Plan is based. (The Pete Plan doesn't have the Level 4 workouts). Sorry for the confusion. I always do active recovery for intervals. For short intervals, the recovery distance is the same as the work distance. So, 8x500 alternates between 500m @ 1:42 and 500m @ 2:32. I finish with a recovery distance. The total distance is therefore 4k. (Check out the Wolverine Plan for discussion around the Level 1 workouts). For medium intervals, the recovery distance is generally 75% of the work distance. So, 4x2k includes 1.5k recoveries. 5x1.5k includes 1,250m recovery. (Again check out the Wolverine Plan discussion). My training week consists of short intervals on Monday and medium intervals on Thursday. Long steady distance on Wednesday and Saturday. Tuesday and Sunday is also long distance, but it's the Wolverine Level 4 workouts which are anything but steady. I also lift on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday. 6 rows, 4 lifts. It's about 115k each week, which doesn't seem as long as it would be if it was just long steady distance. The intervals breaks it up and makes it a lot of fun. I'd really recommend reading the discussion and documents around the Wolverine Plan. Even if you don't adopt this plan, it includes the background information you'd need to intelligently incorporate intervals into your workouts.

[old] PeterWilkinson · Post by **[old] PeterWilkinson** » September 21st, 2005, 12:32 pm

GutBustin, I am doing a modified version of the Pete Plan, basically on a two week rotation. The intervals are always done Mondays and Thursdays: Monday - 8 X 500m/3:30r or 4 X 1K/5:00r Thursday - 4 X 2K/5:00r or 3K-2.5K-2K/5:00r Then I do fairly steady stuff on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. This may be a steady 5K, 6K, 30 minutes or 10K at PB pace + 3-5 seconds. Today, just for a change I did the strapless 10K. I just do whatever I feel like doing on the "easy" days, with the focus very much on improving my times on the interval days, because I am training towards the BIRC on 20th November. On Saturdays I attend a rowing class for about an hour, with a mixed group of people who have a wide variety of abilities. We usually row fartlek sets and/or a wide variety of racing formats (usually team races with individual intervals of 500m or less). Men vs women seems popular for the racing, and one week I was the only guy there, so I ended up racing 6 women over 2K, (twice in the same session), with them rowing 250m intervals relay style and me rowing the whole distance. That was fun!?!?!

[old] GutBustin' · Post by **[old] GutBustin'** » September 21st, 2005, 8:06 pm

I appreciate these 2 posts bmoore and peter. It usually takes me quite some time to get my head around some concepts, and the Wolverine Plan is proving to be one of them. It usually comes down to the fact that other people are making references to within the plan quite casually (and for good reason) and it can prove to be confusing. It's not unlike flipping to an episode of Star Trek half way through. Anyway, I've only got 3 months of ergin/working out under my belt and so far the main thing I've discovered is the joy of going strapless. Apart from that, I'm just trying to get in some solid rows at 30 minutes, and also some low stroke rates of 20 SPM. For example, today I did 30 minutes, 20 SPM for 7299 metres. I think I'll be sticking with these types of rows until I naturally reach a limit of some sort, and then look at Wolverine more seriously. I have been reading those posts by Caviston though and it's starting to seep in. Congrats bmoore on busting that 1:49-50 split barrier wide open with some phat 1:46s. Nice one.