What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » March 12th, 2005, 5:26 pm

Off road bikes and hybrids are nice. <br /><br />One of the things I like most is the straight fork, which gives great stability to the bike. Many racing bicycles are notoriously poorly made in this regard. For example I had a racing bike that had only 1/4" of trail!<br /><br />This trail is the distance between a line down the front fork axle, and a line to the ground from the axle of the front wheel. Increasing the curve of the front fork reduces the trail. A stable bicycle would have a trail of 1.5 to 2.5 inches and up. By reversing the fork and with a trail of 5 inches you could push a bike down a hill and it would keep going and going, being almost impossible to knock over. I have a tape of experiments like these and they are quite amazing to watch.<br /><br />Interestingly, although many racing bikes are made with minimal trail, Tour de France riders have this in the upper regions. Lance Armstrong, for example, races with a straight fork on his bike.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » March 12th, 2005, 5:32 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 12 2005, 01:52 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You also exaggerate. I have said that, normally, the breaks I take are about 10 seconds, not 10 hours. </td></tr></table><br /><br />10 seconds.... 10 hours... what's the difference?????<br /><br />You're both taking breaks.<br /><br />You often say you do X pace for Y time, but because of the breaks you aren't really doing that at all.<br /><br />If you want to say you did 20x 1k with 10 second rests that is different, but not a 20k at 1:52 when you did NOT do that at all.<br /><br />In this sense, what Gus did and what you did was exactly the same. You had some intervals with a certain pace and a certain distance, which was not contiguous.<br /><br />Since it doesn't matter what your overall pace is then why do you state it in those terms? Wishful thinking? <br /><br />Why not stop exaggerating and say what your pace really is??<br /><br />Fear?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 5:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>That is only true for the very high stroke rates pieces (24 and 26). </td></tr></table><br /><br />Jim--<br /><br />Really? Where does he say this? Unless I am missing someting, it is not in his description of the WP.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 5:46 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>10 seconds.... 10 hours... what's the difference?????<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Quite a bit, I would say.<br /><br />First session. Row for quite a while, say, 2-3K or 5K or whatever, at 1:48 and 22 spm, then take a 10 second break. Then continue rowing. Do this for 20-40K. <br /><br />Second session. Row for quite a while, say, 2-3K or 5K or whatever, at 1:48 and 22 spm, then take a 10 hour break. Then continue rowing. Do this for 20-40K.<br /><br />The first session will take a couple of hours. The second session will take a couple of weeks. That is, the first session, if repeated daily, can accomplish about 15 times what is accomplished by the second session.<br /><br />BTW, rowing continuously (e.g., at marathon length) at 13 SPI is certainly the goal of this kind of training, but it is not the means. <br /><br />Nothing is being exaggerated. It is clear what I am doing.<br /><br />ranger

[old] snappyrower · Post by **[old] snappyrower** » March 12th, 2005, 5:48 pm

30 minutes. rowed 5178 meters, and watch the first 30 of Matchstick Men. Will try to do some more meters tonight.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 5:51 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If you want to say you did 20x 1k with 10 second rests that is different, but not a 20k at 1:52 when you did NOT do that at all.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't say that I do 20K at 1:52. I say I do 20K at 1:52, _with breaks_. <br /><br />All of the rowing, 20K, is done at 1:52. The breaks (can) involve no rowing at all.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 5:53 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Since it doesn't matter what your overall pace is then why do you state it in those terms? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I do.<br /><br />I don't report an overall time. The overall time doesn't matter (to me).<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 5:57 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If you want to say you did 20x 1k with 10 second rests that is differen </td></tr></table><br /><br />O.K. But why row like this? So you can "report it." I take a break when I think I need one, not when I reach 1K, or whatever. Workouts don't need to be regimented and quanified. You just need to do a lot of appropriate, relevant work.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 6:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Caviston was talking about someone who is training to actually 'race' at some point in time </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've raced quite a bit, George--set records in all of the major championships, broke the world record in my division three times, etc.<br /><br />It appears that _you_ are the one who hasn't raced much yet.<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />I am trying to get better. This takes a while, and by and large, it doesn't involve racing, especially if you are (radically) changing your technique.<br /><br />Good racing is the result of good training, not the other way around.<br /><br />When you have done what I have done in my racing, then I will know you have done well in your training.<br /><br />So...<br /><br />Over to you, George. <br /><br />ranger

[old] JaneW. · Post by **[old] JaneW.** » March 12th, 2005, 6:30 pm

Hi Ranger,<br /><br />Can you answer two questions regarding form and technique between rowing on water and on erg?<br /><br />a) There is a rowing club near my home. Scullers seem to lean back more when pulling. Sweepers don't lean as far back. Personal perference or boat difference? Do erging techniques differ that much from actual water rowing? <br /><br />b)The impeccable form that I observed of a rowing crew on a erg is such that the back is vertical and knees over the shins at the catch. There is a slight lean at the finish phase. Can you comment on this strict form especially in the area of injury prevention? <br /><br />Thank you and any feedback is appreciated. Jane

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » March 12th, 2005, 7:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 12 2005, 01:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I don't say that I do 20K at 1:52. I say I do 20K at 1:52, _with breaks_. <br /><br />All of the rowing, 20K, is done at 1:52. The breaks (can) involve no rowing at all.<br /><br />ranger </td></tr></table><br />That's like saying I painted my house blue;, .. -> but it's red.<br /><br />If you're taking two 10 second rests every kilometer, for example, that means you did 20k at 2:02 pace!<br /><br />And how do you know you're taking only 10 second rests? Do you time the entire 20k to find out? If so, what is your total time for the 20k?

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » March 12th, 2005, 8:20 pm

Ranger, <br /><br />Re: Where the WP says the 4x10 with breaks is for high intensity. Mike says "proportionately greater intensity" but as he lays it out here, this would be the highest intensity and the highest intensities typically have some time in the sequence that are are 24 and 26 spm. 4x10 with 3'20", I can not imagine, is for the bread and butter 18/20/22 work. <br /><br />Here, straight from the plan:<br /><br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Level 4 workouts range from 40-70’ of continuous effort. Other <b>variations</b> include 2 x 40’ (with 6-7’ recovery between pieces) and 4 x 10’ at a proportionately greater intensity (with recovery intervals of 3’ 20"). </td></tr></table><br /><br />(my bolding)

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » March 12th, 2005, 8:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 12 2005, 01:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />Nothing is being exaggerated. It is clear what I am doing.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 10 2005, 03:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>21K 1:52 @ 22 spm<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As many of us have mentioned before, what you write as your training is not very clear at all. The above exact quote is what you wrote you did for training that session. John reasonably questioned the accuracy of your statement because a 1:52 pace for that training distance is fast even for you. Turns out you are taking an unspecified # of breaks of unspecified duration. Even without leaving out this important information, it would be unclear as to what your pace is. Is it 1:52 with the breaks in the pace calculation? Or, are you ignoring the breaks which is an inaccurate statement of pace to many of us as your true overall pace would then be much slower than 1:52. It would be like saying I did a 2k at 1:30 pace (which pretty much all of us would interpert as a 6:00 2K) without explaining you took a number of breaks of time not counted in the overall time. Doubt you're intentionally trying to mislead us, but it feels like amisrepresentation of what you are actually doing. <br /><br />My comment about one of my particular daily workouts was to try to show you how even someone who takes a 10 hour break and then another 1 hour break over a 21+K could make similar inaccurate claims as to pace. You'd be more accurate if you said you did 21K with some breaks at an overall pace of x:xx with the majority of it at 1:52 or something like that. <br />

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » March 12th, 2005, 9:22 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 13 2005, 11:06 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Caviston was talking about someone who is training to actually 'race' at some point in time </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've raced quite a bit, George--set records in all of the major championships, broke the world record in my division three times, etc.<br /><br />It appears that _you_ are the one who hasn't raced much yet.<br /><br />Why?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well Ranger lets look at this question you have posed. I started rowing Jan last year and the last competition available to me was in September last year and the next is not till the end of May this year. During that time by my reckoning I have competed in at least 9 races ranging from 500m thru to 2000k - how many have YOU done in that time.<br /><br />Not how many have you said your going to do, but how many actually competed in? My only stated aim this year is that I would like to try and get my 2k time down to 6:20 ... but I am willing to admit I struggling with motivation. I have read so many times that your going to do this and that but when .... there was about 5 or 6 months back that we heard your were going to start with a marathon and then work down the distances (at this pace and that) - when is that going to happen Rich, or is that more of the same that 'training is not racing' 'my goal is to race well in my 1x' - until of course you want to start quoting your theories on how training performance is a guide to racing performance.<br /><br />-you have stated you would race but you dont<br />-you give advice to people who you dont know and dont take the time to know (either their circumstances or goals or backgrounds), and couch your advice in 'categorical terms'<br />-you state what you have done in training in I believe a deliberately ambiguous way and when questioned you still evade the question<br />-you try to justify your position with the WP but you dont follow it as written by MC<br />-you try to justify your position with the C2 plan but you do not follow it as written<br /><br />Yes you did good once, yes you did hold the WR but I would hazard a guess that most people here are sick and tired of you throwing it in to every 2nd post as 'more' justification - get over it Ranger that is past tense.<br /><br />Sooner or later even you are going to have to get past the point of claiming that this 'habituation' of your stroke (which is utter crap) is what your about and we just all have to wait. (We dont really care either to be honest but you keep throwing it into the forum so we dont forget that you were someone ONCE) The only thing is that habituated is your mind numbing ego that continues to dominate your posts and advice.<br /><br />George<br />

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » March 12th, 2005, 9:48 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>but I am willing to admit I struggling with motivation. </td></tr></table><br /><br />G'day Big Fella,<br /><br />Why are you struggling with your motivation so close to a race? <br />Did you work on any of the shorter intervals and fartlek we talked about?<br />I'm assuming that you've done all your base work! <br />PM me if i can help!<br /><br />Cheers<br />GW