What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] hennmart · Post by **[old] hennmart** » March 11th, 2005, 6:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Mar 12 2005, 12:30 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hennie,<br /><br />My erg is at the front on one side of the garage so I have a nice wide view out the left and the front. I have a towel to the side, garage door remote, and a place to write my times etc.<br /><br />Recently I've been moving one of the cars out for faster sessions, and moving the erg in the middle of that space every few days or so. This still gives me the same view, and more air around me to keep cool.<br /><br />Keep up your great rowing. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />John,<br /><br />I've two big windows in my "rowing"-room, so there is plenty of air. Here in Holland it is still cold, but when your rowing it does'nt matter.<br /><br />Hennie

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » March 11th, 2005, 7:47 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 11 2005, 02:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Mar 10 2005, 05:05 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 10 2005, 03:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>21K 1:52 @ 22 spm<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No breaks this time? <br /><br />That's 78:46 for a half marathon.<br /><br />No more grapefruit juice? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John--<br /><br />I am not racing. I am just putting in meters, the more the merrier. 1:52 @ 22 spm is my UT2 pace and rate, to be done as close to 70% HRR as possible.<br /><br />I am not keeping track of breaks. I take occasional breaks in something comes up. I don't think it really matters.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I did 21,498m at 1:47 and a SR of 22-23. <br /><br />Well, not all of it was at 1:47 and there was about a 10 hour break and another hour break, but I didn't really keep track of the exact amount of time of the breaks or really for that matter the time spent at that pace. Besides I don't think it really matters.

[old] JaneW. · Post by **[old] JaneW.** » March 11th, 2005, 10:16 pm

I am amazed at how many serious rowers there are. Here is my workout:<br /><br />(yoga and pilates)<br /><br />swim practice for one hour practicing technique on freestyle, backstroke, and breatstroke. I didn't have enough time since the pool was crowded. Later, I erged for 40minutes, pure relaxation. My freestyle in is improving becasue I am steadily catching up to another swimmer I swam with a year ago. Yeah!!<br /><br />Does anyone row and swim? I am interested to hear their workouts because my shoulders become tired from both activities. I might need to drop one. <br /><br />(Please pardon me on my profile on this site. I don't like using computers but I love this training forum. )<br /><br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 5:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I did 21,498m at 1:47 and a SR of 22-23. <br /><br />Well, not all of it was at 1:47 and there was about a 10 hour break and another hour break, but I didn't really keep track of the exact amount of time of the breaks or really for that matter the time spent at that pace. Besides I don't think it really matters.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Exactly!<br /><br />Although it would be better if I could double the distance and do marathon length workouts in this way. <br /><br />You also exaggerate. I have said that, normally, the breaks I take are about 10 seconds, not 10 hours.<br /><br />At the moment, I am just working on technique, habituating to a new stroke. The aim each session is just to row a lot of meters with the stroke, at various stroke rates and therefore levels of effort. <br /><br />The rowing I am doing is comparable to Level 4 rowing in the WP (13 SPI), which is also designed to work on habituation to a strong stroke. <br /><br />Caviston breaks his Level 4 rows into 2.5-3K segments with 3:30 rest. So in a 40 minute workout at, say, an average of 21 spm at 1:50 (in his terminology, a mix of 208s and 212s or 20-22-20-22-20 and 22-20-22-20-22, at my 2K target), if you just stopped during your rest breaks, instead of doing some sort of active recovery, in a standard session you would row 10, 909m in 50:30 or an average pace of about 2:18. <br /><br />Of course, this average would come down if you took active rest of various sorts, but I don't think it really matters. The challenging rowing is done on the 208s and 212s that come when you are _not_ resting.<br /><br />Caviston suggests 40 minutes of rowing of this sort in each session to a total of about 70% of your overall rowing.<br /><br />The rowing I am doing is more free form but very similar to this. I would say that the major difference is that I am taking shorter breaks and less overall rest. To this point, I have also been rowing twice as far as he suggests (20K instead of 10K). I will try to stretch this rowing to marathon length over the next few weeks.<br /><br />Gus, if you want to know what I am doing and what it does for you, just try this out. I suppose you can't follow what I am doing exactly, because it is free form. But you could follow Caviston's suggestions. I would be interested in what you think. Perhaps you can get to 4 x 40' of Level 4 rowing before I do.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 6:46 am

Gus--<br /><br />Of course, the other way to do this rowing, and this is advocated by Caviston, too, is just to slow down the stroke rate and row continuous, restricted rate marathons (e.g., at 1:54 and 19 spm). This is my goal by the end of April or so. <br /><br />Like Caviston, though, I think it helps to build strength and endurance by doing some discontinuous rowing at higher stroke rates while you are trying to build up to this continuous rowing at lower stroke rates. So that is what I am doing.<br /><br />Have you tried a continuous, restricted rate marathon, e.g., at 1:54 and 19 spm? If you tried it, you would get a taste of what my training is like and what it is doing for me.<br /><br />ranger

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » March 12th, 2005, 9:17 am

I planned to do 35 minutes of 1:56, a semi intensive piece. I had company while rowing and the conversation made the row feel much funnier and the minutes pass faster. Because of that good feeling I did some extra minutes and then social reasons influenced me again but this time to stop. I got to 43 minutes and my heartrate was only 160 (max on erg = 190-192).<br /><br />The idea to do a HM next saturday at this pace struck me but since I have done no sessions as long as this one earlier this season I think I will settle for a 60 min session but at a slightly faster pace. The HM will have to wait until I have more 40-60 min sessions behind me....if that ever happens.... <br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 9:50 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Mar 12 2005, 08:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I planned to do 35 minutes of 1:56, a semi intensive piece. I had company while rowing and the conversation made the row feel much funnier and the minutes pass faster. Because of that good feeling I did some extra minutes and then social reasons influenced me again but this time to stop. I got to 43 minutes and my heartrate was only 160 (max on erg = 190-192).<br /><br />The idea to do a HM next saturday at this pace struck me but since I have done no sessions as long as this one earlier this season I think I will settle for a 60 min session but at a slightly faster pace. The HM will have to wait until I have more 40-60 min sessions behind me....if that ever happens.... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carl--<br /><br />If you restricted the rate to 20-22 spm, then you were doing some nice UT2 rowing. 160 bpm is just about right. The C2 manual suggests as much as 90 minutes (HM, etc.) of this sort of rowing in a session. If you are ambitious enough to do it, I think that this rowing is best done to marathon length.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 9:55 am

Gus--<br /><br />BTW, if I get to a marathon at 19 spm and 1:54 (114 df.), it will be a nice measure of my technical improvement. My marathon pb, rowed a couple of years ago, is 1:54, but at 32 spm (190 df.).<br /><br />1:54 at 19 spm is 12.5 SPI.<br />1:54 at 32 spm is 7.4 SPI.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 9:58 am

This morning: 25K at 1:54 and 19 spm, with some breaks to stay comfortable<br /><br />114 df.<br /><br />ranger

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » March 12th, 2005, 10:22 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 12 2005, 01:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Carl--<br /><br />If you restricted the rate to 20-22 spm, then you were doing some nice UT2 rowing. 160 bpm is just about right. The C2 manual suggests as much as 90 minutes (HM, etc.) of this sort of rowing in a session. If you are ambitious enough to do it, I think that this rowing is best done to marathon length.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks for the feedback Ranger. <br /><br />The piece was att 22 SPM and that did not <i>feel</i> "capped". SPI 10.2 or so.<br /><br />90 minutes might be possible for me but those durations are black areas on my performance map, I don't know how I will react at 60+ minutes and I have no experience on which to base my own most preferred drinking routine. I don't like the idea of having to stop to drink...but even less the idea of not drinking.<br /><br />Also, my "double the d" seems to fit best with "add 5" (a bit too much type2 fibres perhaps) for durations 2k to 10k and if that remains in these durations I will reach my max effort with a HM at 1:56.5, unless my fitness has improved... .<br /><br />For next weekend I will probably do a quick break to drink at 30min and then continue to 60.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » March 12th, 2005, 10:29 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Mar 12 2005, 09:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Mar 12 2005, 01:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />Carl--<br /><br />If you restricted the rate to 20-22 spm, then you were doing some nice UT2 rowing. 160 bpm is just about right. The C2 manual suggests as much as 90 minutes (HM, etc.) of this sort of rowing in a session. If you are ambitious enough to do it, I think that this rowing is best done to marathon length.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks for the feedback Ranger. <br /><br />The piece was att 22 SPM and that did not <i>feel</i> "capped". SPI 10.2 or so.<br /><br />90 minutes might be possible for me but those durations are black areas on my performance map, I don't know how I will react at 60+ minutes and I have no experience on which to base my own most preferred drinking routine. I don't like the idea of having to stop to drink...but even less the idea of not drinking.<br /><br />Also, my "double the d" seems to fit best with "add 5" (a bit too much type2 fibres perhaps) for durations 2k to 10k and if that remains in these durations I will reach my max effort with a HM at 1:56.5.<br /><br />For next weekend I will probably do a quick break to drink at 30min and then continue to 60. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carl--<br /><br />I wouldn't worry about breaks for drinks. Rowing at 1:56 an 22 spm is not racing. It's just training. <br /><br />I wouldn't recommend taking a drink break in your next 2K trial, but in a HM of training?<br /><br />If you body tells you that you need to, drink up. <br /><br />Wherever, whenever.<br /><br />ranger

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » March 12th, 2005, 10:32 am

warm up then<br /><br />30 min df 115 spm 26. Steady rowing with 1:50.8split (85% HRR max and 81% average).<br /><br />5 min recoevery then<br /><br />30 min df 115 spm 26. HRR capped at 85%. Split was 1:52.9<br /><br />Each session gave just over 22 minutes at 80-85% HRR.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » March 12th, 2005, 2:34 pm

I got a new bike this past week and have decided to ramp up my training for some xc racing in June. That is just 14 weeks away and although a foot of snow fell today I was on my trainer in the garage (watching the snow fall and wondering when it will melt). The trainer is unlike the erg in that I sweat like a pig even at 30 degrees (F). I had my shirt off and even my fingers were smoking with evaporation. I put in 60 minutes and enjoyed it. <br /><br /><br />New bike from E-Bay (but it has fox float 80rlc front fork)<br /><img src='http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/09/ ... -bikes.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » March 12th, 2005, 3:39 pm

Ranger wrote:<br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Caviston breaks his Level 4 rows into 2.5-3K segments with 3:30 rest </td></tr></table><br /><br />That is only true for the very high stroke rates pieces (24 and 26). Mike is emphatic about continuous rowing and 40' is a minimum. 2x40' is common and 70' is to be expected. He says that breaks are inevitable on the water and probably not that bad, but on the erg he encourages continuous efforts. <br /><br />Here's some excepts: <br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>First, let’s look at some sample workout formats and how an individual workout is structured. Level 4 workouts range from 40-70’ of continuous effort. </td></tr></table> <br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>so a 40’ workout may be thought of as 4 consecutive 10’ pieces with no recovery </td></tr></table>.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Workouts are designed to be continuous. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>On the ergometer, it is strongly urged you row each piece continuously unless absolutely unavoidable </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Nothing good will come of stopping a workout every time your butt itches or you want to change the CD in the boombox </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've got no problems with breaks (especially just 10 seconds) but if you are going to appeal to Caviston for validating breaks, I think you have the wrong guy.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » March 12th, 2005, 4:24 pm

Three things:<br /><br />Caviston was talking about someone who is training to actually 'race' at some point in time<br /><br />Caviston doesnt mention taking all this time for 'habituation' of a stroke<br /><br />He also talks about doing some Level 1 and 2 (thats the fast stuff ?) each week, not just endless mindless meters of sameness<br /><br /><br />I note on the UK forum not long ago that Caviston also mentioned that he wishes Ranger would stop using him (Caviston) as a point of reference to validate his (Rangers) theorys as they have little if any agreement .... I can see his point.<br /><br />George