What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] tomhz · Post by **[old] tomhz** » February 25th, 2005, 6:32 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BIKERACER @ Feb 25 2005, 09:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hello everyone,<br /><br />Here's my workout for today:<br /> 10 minute (2000m) warmup<br /> 3 x 15 minutes @ 2:02-2:04/500 pace (3650-3700 each)<br /> 10 minute cooldown (2000 m)<br /><br />I rested 5 minutes between each repeat. This was a UT1 workout with my heart rates between 138-146 bpm and my spm at 21-23.<br /><br />What do you think of this workout as an endurance improver?<br /><br />Herb <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Bikeracer,<br /><br />pretty much the same type of training as I did today:<br /><br />3x20min @ 1:59-2:00 with 4 min rests in between. Stroke rate 24.<br /><br />This is my 60 min PB pace. Great for endurance build up. <br /><br /><br />Tom <br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 26th, 2005, 9:15 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tomhz @ Feb 25 2005, 05:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BIKERACER @ Feb 25 2005, 09:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hello everyone,<br /><br />Here's my workout for today:<br /> 10 minute (2000m) warmup<br /> 3 x 15 minutes @ 2:02-2:04/500 pace (3650-3700 each)<br /> 10 minute cooldown (2000 m)<br /><br />I rested 5 minutes between each repeat. This was a UT1 workout with my heart rates between 138-146 bpm and my spm at 21-23.<br /><br />What do you think of this workout as an endurance improver?<br /><br />Herb <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Bikeracer,<br /><br />pretty much the same type of training as I did today:<br /><br />3x20min @ 1:59-2:00 with 4 min rests in between. Stroke rate 24.<br /><br />This is my 60 min PB pace. Great for endurance build up. <br /><br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't know. If you want to build up your endurance, I would just put it on 24 spm and row for the hour, at whatever pace you find challenging but comfortable, pushing it to about as hard as you can go over the last few Ks. <br /><br />Then do it again the next day (and the next), trying to go just a wee bit faster each time out.<br /><br />Resting for 8 minutes during the hour doesn't do much to build up endurance, especially at the pace and SPI you are rowing at.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » February 26th, 2005, 5:53 pm

Nice easy 8 mile run up and down Fifth Avenue and into Central Park. (F'in "Gates" crap... too many people!)

[old] starboardrigged1seat · Post by **[old] starboardrigged1seat** » February 26th, 2005, 8:03 pm

I think the gates look really cool. I went two nights ago after practice when it was snowing, and just wandered around in the dark with all the snowfall...it was really surreal. Then again, you have to wonder what could have been done with all that money if put to good uses.

[old] Sirrowsalot · Post by **[old] Sirrowsalot** » February 26th, 2005, 8:19 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 25 2005, 08:00 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>20K, working up slowly to 1:50 @ 19 spm (14 SPI) and then holding it there, taking breaks to keep my heart rate under my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm).<br /><br />This is settling into a standard, foundational session for me (one that I can do almost every day), especially if I can stretch this to 30K. Wonderful for relaxation, technique (leverage and timing), strength, leg-back-arm speed, CV-conditioning, endurance, patience, mental toughness, etc. My heart runs very high on this row, at the limits of UT1 (and above, if I want), but the slow rate makes this high heart rate more tolerable (it seems!). Done every day, this session's combination of distance, high stroking power (14 SPI), and high heart rate is transformative, especially for someone my age (54) and size (165 lbs., lwt).<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It seems like every long workout you do involves frequent breaks with the purpose of keeping your heart rate under control. Why don't you just row at a pace you can manage for that heartrate, and then slowly increase the pace, workout by workout, until you can manage it? For instance I believe you mentioned a while ago that you were pulling a 20k at a 1:43 piece with breaks of a few seconds--clearly you're nowhere near rowing a 20k at 1:43 pace (That would be a world-class time), why not just row a pace you can manage? It seems like rowing at a pace you can manage is much more beneficial than stopping a lot. What is your reasoning in doing it the way you are doing, i.e. with frequent stopping?<br />

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » February 27th, 2005, 1:57 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ninthman @ Feb 26 2005, 05:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Nice easy 8 mile run up and down Fifth Avenue and into Central Park. (F'in "Gates" crap... too many people!) <br /> </td></tr></table><br />It slowed down my run too much. Too many out-of-towners gawking and walking slowly.<br /><br />You're a Columbia rower?

[old] starboardrigged1seat · Post by **[old] starboardrigged1seat** » February 27th, 2005, 2:58 am

I might be...

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 27th, 2005, 6:35 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It seems like every long workout you do involves frequent breaks with the purpose of keeping your heart rate under control. Why don't you just row at a pace you can manage for that heartrate, and then slowly increase the pace, workout by workout, until you can manage it? For instance I believe you mentioned a while ago that you were pulling a 20k at a 1:43 piece with breaks of a few seconds--clearly you're nowhere near rowing a 20k at 1:43 pace (That would be a world-class time), why not just row a pace you can manage? It seems like rowing at a pace you can manage is much more beneficial than stopping a lot. What is your reasoning in doing it the way you are doing, i.e. with frequent stopping?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, I agree. For _most_ training, this practice is not at all the best. I think it _is_ the best for my present purposes, though, learning to use a new technique. <br /><br />At the moment, I am not trying to get in shape, etc. My fitness is sky-high. I am trying to re-train the rhythms and mechanics of my rowing at all of the different rates and distances. This is quite a different task, I think. The focus is much more muscular, and in the end, the task is as much mental as physical--learning to relax, habituating to a new sort of motion and exertion. The stroke I learning to use is about 40% stronger than the stroke I used for the first three years or so when I first took up rowing. It is also entirely different in mechanics and timing. In my training now, I often take breaks to ease the mental strain as much as the physical strain. When you are not habituated to some motion or exertion, your heart rate spikes. As you learn to relax, it comes back down.<br /><br />We'll soon see for sure, I guess, but I think my (re-)training is succeeding wonderfully.<br /><br />Today I was rowing along at 17 spm and 1:54 (14 SPI) with no unusual muscular exertion and with my heart rate steady at 158 bpm, very close to the upper edges of my UT2 training band (152 bpm). This is pretty comfortable rowing. I think I will soon be able to row a continuous marathon at this rate and pace. If so, I will row my former marathon pb (2:40:15) with just about half as many strokes. I rowed my pb marathon a couple of years ago at 1:54 amd 32 spm. The is quite an advance. <br /><br />When I get to a marathon at 17 spm and 1:54 (in the next month or so, I think), I will lighten up my stroke and row a marathon trial at about 24 spm. We'll see what I can do for a marathon then.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 27th, 2005, 6:56 am

BTW, I have been rowing to the metronome again. Great stuff. For me, 1:54 at 17 spm is right on a 3-to-1 ratio (or 4-beat measure). If I put the metronome on 68, I do one beat on the drive and then three beats on the recovery. <br /><br />Wonderful for technical discipline. <br /><br />Limiting the drive to one beat keeps my stroke at exactly the same power, and the three beats on the recovery discipline my progess up the slide so that I execute the recovery in exactly the same way on each stroke. <br /><br />Given this exact temporal regulation of both drive and recovery, there is no need for a monitor. Both rate and pace stay flat even.<br /><br />Haven't done it yet, but I think I might like rowing in the dark to the metronome, especially if the rate is at low as 17 spm and the distance as long as a marathon. For years, when I was doing marathon running, I ran long distances in the early morning, often in the dark. <br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 27th, 2005, 7:33 am

I must admit: I am pretty excited about the easy power in my new stroke. In Wolverine Plan Level 4 rowing, 1:54 at 17 spm (14 SPI) is a target for a 1:33 2K pace, for a lightweight (of any age), world class level. <br /><br />Older rowers (I am 54) will always have a somewhat reduced CV capacity and therefore significantly slower times at all distances, even the sprints; but it seems that stroking power is much more durable. At least for lightweights, older rowers, it seems, can row with the same efficiency/easy power as younger rowers. <br /><br />ranger

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » February 27th, 2005, 9:52 am

After fast 10k yesterday (36:37.5) just a nice steady 60 min strapless, 20 spm and staying under 80% HR. Averaged 1:59 nice and easy.

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » February 27th, 2005, 4:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 27 2005, 07:33 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I must admit: I am pretty excited about the easy power in my new stroke. In Wolverine Plan Level 4 rowing, 1:54 at 17 spm (14 SPI) is a target for a 1:33 2K pace, for a lightweight (of any age), world class level. <br /><br />Older rowers (I am 54) will always have a somewhat reduced CV capacity and therefore significantly slower times at all distances, even the sprints; but it seems that stroking power is much more durable. At least for lightweights, older rowers, it seems, can row with the same efficiency/easy power as younger rowers. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Well, if it works out as well as you're projecting, be sure to let Dr. Hagerman know about it.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 27th, 2005, 5:32 pm

1:54 to 1:33 pace would be quite a leap.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 27th, 2005, 5:49 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Well, if it works out as well as you're projecting, be sure to let Dr. Hagerman know about it. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Interesting thought. <br /><br />Has Hagerman studied rowers who are trying to change their technique from a kind of goony trucated paddling stroke done at 200 df. leading with the arms and back and neglecting the legs and finish and performed at a high rate but a low wattage per stroke to a standard on water stroke done at 114 df. with proper timing and 40% more power and therefore done at a radically lower rate?<br /><br />If so, I would be interested.<br /><br />Of course, the other (and much surer) way to demonstrate the effectiveness of my training of my new stroke is just to do some racing and show how much faster I now am.<br /><br />First race will be the marathon, at the end of April at Flack's Boston Marathon fest.<br /><br />By the way, rowing with breaks is what people call _interval_ training. Regardless of my special purposes in this case, it is not clear to me that interval training is a poor way to train. I am especially attracted to fartleks, especially for the purposes of facilitation/habituation/relaxation.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 27th, 2005, 6:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 27 2005, 04:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>1:54 to 1:33 pace would be quite a leap. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />With my old stroke, the best sustained slow spm rowing I did was at 18 spm and 1:56 (for an hour) with my heart rate running right near my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm). This is standard level 4 rowing for a 1:36 2K target, but with near maximal effort.<br /><br />Today I was doing 1:54 at 17 spm, both a higher pace and a higher SPI (about 1.5 SPI higher), while rowing much more easily, with my heart rate running about 14 bpm lower (158 bpm). <br /><br />ranger