What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 17th, 2005, 3:21 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 17 2005, 05:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Quite a bit of rowing at 1:40 @ 27-28 spm under my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm). The question is: How far can this be extended?<br /><br />I need to stretch this hour of free rowing at AT to two hours. A second 15K session today. Then I'll try two hours (30K) tomorrow morning. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />The question is: How far are you doing it now?<br /><br />What is your actual pace for the hour?<br />

[old] Exrook · Post by **[old] Exrook** » February 17th, 2005, 3:24 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 17 2005, 03:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 17 2005, 05:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Quite a bit of rowing at 1:40 @ 27-28 spm under my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm). The question is: How far can this be extended?<br /><br />I need to stretch this hour of free rowing at AT to two hours. A second 15K session today. Then I'll try two hours (30K) tomorrow morning. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />The question is: How far are you doing it now?<br /><br />What is your actual pace for the hour? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 17 2005, 09:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>15K of free rowing at AT (172 bpm), with breaks, 1:38-1:44. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 17th, 2005, 3:26 pm

Terrible workout this morning, except it can't be called a workout.<br /><br />8:00 at 1:58 pace felt out of sorts. I did it again then 4:00 twice.<br /><br />It's in the mid 50's, raining, and a lot of smoke in the air.<br /><br />My breathing feels off so maybe it's the smoke.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » February 17th, 2005, 7:42 pm

I finished up this morning with an hour of 1:00 with 1:00 easy between. The paces were just moderate but gradually improving. It was easier to get my breath with these than with rowing steadily, the steady rowing being most difficult.<br /><br />Rain, rain, rain, all day... and all winter... unusually so.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 18th, 2005, 5:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 17 2005, 02:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 17 2005, 05:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Quite a bit of rowing at 1:40 @ 27-28 spm under my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm). The question is: How far can this be extended?<br /><br />I need to stretch this hour of free rowing at AT to two hours. A second 15K session today. Then I'll try two hours (30K) tomorrow morning. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />The question is: How far are you doing it now?<br /><br />What is your actual pace for the hour? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />At the moment, I am still training my stroke. I am not rowing hour trials, or 5Ks, or even rowing continuously. There is a significant difference. I hope to be doing distance trials pretty soon, though. <br /><br />The first racing that I will do, I think, will be the marathon, probably at the end of April at Paul Flack's Boston Marathon event. Then I will work down to the half marathon, hour row, and 10K.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong with my aerobic (or anaerobic) fitness. I am improving my technique, my efficiency. <br /><br />Yes, I think I will soon row well under 17:00 for 5K. As always, though, first things first.<br /><br />The training is going _very_ well.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » February 18th, 2005, 8:39 pm

I just got back from the gym where I did 20k in 78:42.<br /><br />I had entertained thoughts of stretching to 30k, but I'm not in the best distance shape right now due prepping and tapering for the recent CRASHB.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 19th, 2005, 3:58 am

Distance trials have their function, but this function is largely to stress the CV system, once everything else is in place. How _fast_ you row a distance trial is not _just_ a function of your CV system, though. It is also a function of how efficiently you can deliver power at a certain level of effort. <br /><br />I am not sure how these two balance out exactly, but in rowing, the balance is significant, if not close to equal, I think. On one hand, there is the UT2, UT1, and AT challenge: How long and effortlessly can you row with a powerful stroke, right up to 1:40 pace or so? On the other hand, there is the TR and AT challenge. How long and severely can you push your aerobic and anaerobic systems at the limits of your mental and physical powers? <br /><br />The constant focus on pbs in and around these C2 web-sites constantly shines a spotlight on the second question. But ironically, the level of achievement at TR and AT (the higher training bands) is determined significantly, in fact, at least equally, by achievements at UT2, UT1, and AT (the lower training bands), that is, by muscular fitness and technical efficiency rather than aerobic and anaerobic capacity.<br /><br />Ironically, it seems that an equal determinant of how fast you can row a certain distance at an unrestricted stroke rate is how easily you can row that distance at a lower stroke rate with an equally powerful stroke. This means that is just as important to brag about your "pbs" on UT2, UT1, and AT rowing, as it is on TR and AN rowing. In fact, as the logical order of training dictates, the former are more fundamental. By and large, the fate of the latter is determined by achievement on the former.<br /><br />At the edges of possibility, the _real_ key to rowing a 2K in 6:20 for a 54-year-old lwt, I think, is to row a marathon at 1:50 and 22 spm with 70% HRR, that is, to meet high standards of relaxation and muscular and technical efficiency, not to have some unusual sort of CV fitness at the limits of psychological and physical effort.<br /><br />Been there, done that.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 19th, 2005, 6:16 am

More free rowing (i.e., with breaks) right at my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm) this morning. Getting up to 26 spm now, and when I do, 1:40 emerges naturally (13.5 SPI). This is _very_ nice to see. These are my top end WP Level 4 targets and used to be about as hard as I could push and pull when I was rowing at high drag with my old stroke. Now I have the proper timing, drag, leg/back/arm speed, and musculature to deal with 1:40 at 26 spm naturally, in the flow of my normal stroking. No unusual effort required. Just a little faster recovery. A little quicker with my hands and back at the finish and into the first part of the recovery and 24 spm becomes 26 spm. <br /><br />Still nice and slow up the rail after that, though, especially into the catch, letting all of the momentum drain naturally before the pull. Better leverage today on the footplate, too. Efficiency is going way up.<br /><br />I would probably benefit from a _litttle_ more free rowing at 26 spm and 1:40 before trying Zatopek 500s at 1:39 and 26-28 spm, but not much. Long bouts of fartleks would be _very_ useful now to facilitate to this new technique at close to race pace.<br /><br />Still trying to get this free rowing to 30K or even marathon length. 20K is it at the moment. Maybe in a couple more weeks...<br /><br />No cross-training now. Just rowing.<br /><br />114 df.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 19th, 2005, 8:31 am

BTW, perhaps there is something wrong with this logic, but this polarization between (1) the easy delivery of power due the muscular and technical efficiency and (2) the development of high aerobic and anaerobic capacity seems to mean that the two factors can be separated and evaluated independently. <br /><br />This might mean that it would be useful to have some measure of achievement with respect to the easy delivery of power due to muscular and technical efficiency. <br /><br />What occurs to me is this. <br /><br />It appears that, on the average, most of the best rowers do the 2K at just about the same stroke rate, 36 spm, give or take a couple spms. It is also known that a pretty good metric of overall rowing achievement that takes weight into consideration is watts/kg produced in a 2K. <br /><br />This might mean that if we were interested in isolating the achievement of the easy delivery of power that takes weight into consideration a measure such as SPI/kg might useful. As it turns out, a lwt at 75 kg./165 lbs. who can row 6:04 at 36 spm, i.e., a couple of clicks off the open lwt world record, has just about the same SPI/kg as a hwt at 95 kg./210 lbs. who can row 5:38, a click off the hwt world record. Nice result.<br /><br />What is interesting to me at the moment is that the SPI involved in the lwt instance is exactly 13 SPI. That is, it appears that 13 SPI is just about the maximum SPI that a lwt. could try to maintain in a standard stroke that could be used at standard rates in a 2K trial. <br /><br />The SPI involved in the heavyweight instance is 16 SPI.<br /><br />ranger

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » February 19th, 2005, 8:35 am

60 min strapless at 20 spm and sub 2;00 split. Nice and smooth and easy. HR average was 67% but got up to around 74% for last few minutes. 15,074 meters.<br /><br />My 60 min PB of 15,155m set on 3 January now looks a little low.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » February 20th, 2005, 2:17 am

My 4 rows this week have all been hour rows with my HR and my SR capped at 70% HRR and 22-23spm. Paces were 2:11 to 2:09. This past summer, when I was training considerably more than I have in the past few months, this 70% HRR regulated pace (at 23spm) pace was 2:04 for 10K. That's a mark I'd like to get to in about 8 weeks. I'm following pace guidelines in the Danish Program <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... sonalising' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.p ... alising</a> <br /> and so this is basically the low end of Level D (Endurance rowing). Feels about right. <br /><br />Just notes from own experience and others I've trained closely with: 70% paces zoom when you go into an interval phase. We always took it as a good sign that we were indeed taking on the rocket fuel that intense intervals are supposed to be. <br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 20th, 2005, 8:16 am

25K: 15K free rowing at AT (25-28 spm), with breaks; 5K 18:00 at 23 spm: 10 x 250 (250 paddle inbetween) at 1:35 and 32 spm. <br /><br />Technique continues to improve noticeably: faster hands; better deceleration into the catch; better acceleration of the chain with the back and arms.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ninthman · Post by **[old] ninthman** » February 21st, 2005, 1:18 am

My post-CRASHB "slacker week" continues.<br /><br />30 minutes easy erging, around 1:58.<br /><br />20 minutes fast jumprope.<br /><br />.75 mile run to and from gym, warmup and warmdown.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » February 21st, 2005, 9:15 am

20K of free rowing (with breaks to keep my heart rate below my anaerobic threshold), building up to 1:42 and 26 spm (13 SPI) and holdling it there for most of the session.<br /><br />_Very_ pleased with this rowing. No muscular difficulties at all. Technique continues to get much better, especially at the catch. I also keep working on suspension and acceleration in the drive and relaxation in the recovery.<br /><br />AT rowing.<br /><br />ranger

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » February 21st, 2005, 11:33 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>25K: 15K free rowing at AT (25-28 spm), with breaks; 5K 18:00 at 23 spm: 10 x 250 (250 paddle inbetween) at 1:35 and 32 spm. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ranger, <br /><br />That 18-min 5k you did casually in practice would rank you fourth right now on the C2 list for your age/weight category -- as a test piece. <br /><br />Presumably you are capable of heading that list right now, although maybe not (yet?!) of beating Freed's all-time best for the distance.<br /><br />So why not post more of your times to the rankings? In my book success is success.