What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] phowd · Post by **[old] phowd** » January 27th, 2005, 11:30 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2005, 10:49 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>ps If you think I am having a 'go' at you now, you would be right </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />George-- <br /><br />Just some casual advice: It would be to your benefit, I think, if you had a (better) "go" at your training rather than wasting your time having a (poor) "go" at me here on the web. <br /><br />Your various "goings," I think, have similar difficulties. <br /><br />What in the world could be the (substantial, productive) purpose of you having a "go" at me about my training, reporting of my training on this forum, and so forth?<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ranger, <br /><br />At the risk of talking for George, and actually speaking for myself, it IS because we are interested in improving (having a go at faster times) that we ask pointed questions. Obviously whatever you do in your workouts has worked for you. Your times and improvements demonstrate that. Perhaps those of us who have been at this less than a year are struggling to find what will work best for us, and hope to find that, in part, by what has worked for others. I too was interested in how you structure your workout in terms of the tradeoffs between rate, pace, rest and heartrate control. For instance, when you slow down, do you drop to a specified heartrate before picking it back up? Or do you do it by feel, or by concentration level, something less specific? Again, some of us newbies may just be looking for help from someone who has much success.<br /><br />Peter

[old] phowd · Post by **[old] phowd** » January 27th, 2005, 11:54 am

Fair is fair I guess - yesterday:<br /><br /> 9,000 with UT2 heart rate cap, 22 SPM (included warmup)<br /> 4,500 with UT1 heart rate cap, 23 spm<br /> 2,250 with AT heart rate cap, 24 spm<br /> 1,125 with TR heart rate cap, 25 spm<br /> warmdown<br /><br />all strapless, paces changed so as not to exceed heart rate limits. some really slow paddling in between the above. Rate a bit below those C2 recommends, but that way I can keep technique intact. Rests were in the 2-5 min range depending on where the HR was at the beginning of rest interval. Rest intervals continued until HR was down to roughly twice resting (120-125). average HR over the entire workout, including rest, was 154. <br /><br />Peter

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 27th, 2005, 12:18 pm

this pm;<br /><br />5k at 2.05.5<br /><br />4 x 500's with 90 seconds rests<br /><br />1.40.1......35 spm<br />1.40.8......33<br />1.40.6......31<br />1.37.3......36<br /><br />5k cool down at 2.05.4<br /><br />total metres for day 34,687

[old] Bayko · Post by **[old] Bayko** » January 27th, 2005, 12:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rocket Roy @ Jan 27 2005, 11:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br /><br />It was 2.30am before I ot to sleep last night, too exited by the Wirc race coming up, and it's still 17 days away, how sad is that? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hey Roy, with luck your excitement will do the same thing for you that it did for me at BIRC. Both of the last two years I've seemed to drop five or six pounds in the couple of weeks before the event. The only reason that I can think of for this happening is nerves. While I didn't feel any outward anxiety, inwardly I must have been a basket case. Somehow it must have burned calories. Maybe it will help you to make lightweight. I wish you luck in that regard, but hope that you are wise enough to back off from it if you feel your health begin to suffer, and give it a bit longer to happen.<br /><br />Looking forward to the "new" Roy at Boston.<br /><br />Rick

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 1:28 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(phowd @ Jan 27 2005, 10:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Fair is fair I guess - yesterday:<br /><br /> 9,000 with UT2 heart rate cap, 22 SPM (included warmup)<br /> 4,500 with UT1 heart rate cap, 23 spm<br /> 2,250 with AT heart rate cap, 24 spm<br /> 1,125 with TR heart rate cap, 25 spm<br /> warmdown<br /><br />all strapless, paces changed so as not to exceed heart rate limits. some really slow paddling in between the above. Rate a bit below those C2 recommends, but that way I can keep technique intact. Rests were in the 2-5 min range depending on where the HR was at the beginning of rest interval. Rest intervals continued until HR was down to roughly twice resting (120-125). average HR over the entire workout, including rest, was 154. <br /><br />Peter <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Peter--<br /><br />How far are you from the paces in the C2 manual? <br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 1:48 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>At the risk of talking for George, and actually speaking for myself, it IS because we are interested in improving (having a go at faster times) that we ask pointed questions. Obviously whatever you do in your workouts has worked for you. Your times and improvements demonstrate that. Perhaps those of us who have been at this less than a year are struggling to find what will work best for us, and hope to find that, in part, by what has worked for others. I too was interested in how you structure your workout in terms of the tradeoffs between rate, pace, rest and heartrate control. For instance, when you slow down, do you drop to a specified heartrate before picking it back up? Or do you do it by feel, or by concentration level, something less specific? Again, some of us newbies may just be looking for help from someone who has much success. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Fair enough. I suppose I am not talking about this very explicitly because I am not doing anything coherent enough to talk about. I do different things on different days, in different parts of the workout, etc. <br /><br />I suppose what is fashioning my practice most generally at the moment is just an attempt--in some way--to meet the C2 combinations of pace, rate, and heart rate, at some ambitious level that I think reasonable, but very difficult to attain. <br /><br />For instance, consider UT2 rowing. I now can row 1:52 @ 22 spm and 70% MHR (for me, 154 bpm) pretty easily, the C2 specifications for my 2K pb, 6:28; and when I am really relaxed, without much additional effort, this can become 1:50 @ 22 spm. So for whatever reason, I have set a goal of 1:48 @ 22 spm as perhaps the outer limit on my potential for UT2 rowing. <br /><br />Then to try to get to 1:48 @ 22 spm with a lower heart beat (i.e., less effort, more efficiency), I have been rowing along at that pace trying to do everything in my power to be more efficient in my stroking. I try slightly different arm pulls, slightly different rhythms of recovery, slightly different body positions, slightly different timings (of legs, then back, then arms), different mental sets (distraction, concentration, whatever), slightly different degrees of compression or uses of the slide, and so forth. <br /><br />Right now, rowing along at 1:48 and 22 spm, my heart rate slowly rises out of 70% zone as I go along. So I set an artibrary limit, say 160 bpm, and take a little break (10-15 seconds) whenever my heart rate reaches that. Then I go again, trying to be more efficient the next time. And so it goes, for whatever the distance (20K, etc.). <br /><br />ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 27th, 2005, 3:30 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 28 2005, 06:48 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Right now, rowing along at 1:48 and 22 spm, my heart rate slowly rises out of 70% zone as I go along. So I set an artibrary limit, say 160 bpm, and take a little break (10-15 seconds) whenever my heart rate reaches that. Then I go again, trying to be more efficient the next time. And so it goes, for whatever the distance (20K, etc.). <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thank you Ranger you have answered the question I first asked - my only point was to clarify that you dont actually row the 20k at an average of 1:48. Really quite simple when all the extraneous detail is removed.<br /><br />Just to clarify something else based on the figure of 154 as 70% of HRR, then your max HR is still around the 200 mark ? - that to is quite exceptional for your age.<br /><br />George<br /><br />ps I look forward to the report on how your race goes this Sunday

[old] phowd · Post by **[old] phowd** » January 27th, 2005, 3:54 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2005, 05:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(phowd @ Jan 27 2005, 10:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Fair is fair I guess - yesterday:<br /><br /> 9,000 with UT2 heart rate cap, 22 SPM (included warmup)<br /> 4,500 with UT1 heart rate cap, 23 spm<br /> 2,250 with AT heart rate cap, 24 spm<br /> 1,125 with TR heart rate cap, 25 spm<br /> warmdown<br /><br />all strapless, paces changed so as not to exceed heart rate limits. some really slow paddling in between the above. Rate a bit below those C2 recommends, but that way I can keep technique intact. Rests were in the 2-5 min range depending on where the HR was at the beginning of rest interval. Rest intervals continued until HR was down to roughly twice resting (120-125). average HR over the entire workout, including rest, was 154. <br /><br />Peter <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Peter--<br /><br />How far are you from the paces in the C2 manual? <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Ranger,<br /><br /> By the interactive guide, having been at this less than a year after 20+ of doing nothing, I am a level 3 person. My best 2k is 7:11, though I should be near 7:00 I expect. I've never raced, not sure I ever will. Anyway those give me a target range tied to specific heart rate and stroke rate levels.<br /><br />For that workout here are the results - not sure the formatting will survive<br /><br /><br />level HR SR 7:12 7:00 actual HR SR distance<br />UT2 158 22 2:04.5 2:01 2:04.1 157 22 9,000<br />UT1 172 24 2:00. 1:56 2:02.0 171 23 4,500<br />AT 179 28 1:54. 1:51. 1:54.8 181 24 2,250<br />TR 186 32 1:48 1:42 1:49.0 185 25 1,125<br /><br /><br />So, I was slow for UT1 but acceptable (to me) for the others given that I was way, way under the rate for the higher end stuff. For this workout I made the decision not to increase the rate attempt the target pace at target HR. My personal goals have much more to do with weight loss (45 lbs in 9 months to date) and baseline CV fitness (RHR down from >70 to <60) than preparing for racing. After being a competitive swimmer from youngster through my college years, been there and done that. I'd rather go to my son's little league and soccer games than head to Boston for the CRASH-B's. Now, maybe if I get down under 6:30 by the time I turn 50. <br /><br />In the past week or so I've done 2 or 3 15K continuous pieces with average pace at 2:01-2:03, 22PSM, at sub-UT2 heart-rates, so I feel like I'm making progress. <br /><br />Peter

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 4:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>hank you Ranger you have answered the question I first asked - my only point was to clarify that you dont actually row the 20k at an average of 1:48. Really quite simple when all the extraneous detail is removed.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, right. At the moment, in these workouts at least, I don't at all do 20K at 1:48. On the other hand, I am not sure that I couldn't; this is just not my focus right now. If I can settle my heart down below 160 bpm at 1:48 and 22 spm, I can _easily_ row 1:48 for 20K. I have already rowed 1:48 for an hour, but this was flat at 172 bpm and 32 spm (for the entire hour), a pb row. Right now, by working on technique, I am trying to transform 1:48 @ 32 spm and 172 bpm for an hour or an hour (with my old stroke) to 1:48 @ 154 bpm and 22 spm for two hours with my new stroke.<br /><br />That would be quite an improvement, no?<br /><br />A new foundation.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 5:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>ps I look forward to the report on how your race goes this Sunday<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, you would. As would others. <br /><br />But in terms of my training, this is a misplaced emphasis. At the moment, _I_ am much more interested whether I can get to 1:48 at @ 22 spm and 154 spm for two hours, something that is _very_ different from rowing a 2K. I am interested in establishing a new technical and physical/CV _foundation_ for my rowing (from now on, both on the erg and on the water). I am not at all fully trained up to row a 2K with my new stroke. <br /><br />On Sunday in Toronto, I think I might be happy if I row my 2K at 6:36-6:40 at, say, 30 spm. This would be a solid AT row.<br /><br />The next Sunday in Elkark, I will try to lower that a notch to 6:28-6:32, say, at 32 spm. This would be more anaerobic.<br /><br />Then I will try to let out all of the stops in Boston and row at 34-36 spm--come what may.<br /><br />In Toronto or at Elkhart (WIRC qualifiers), I have to row 6:50 to qualify to get a plane ride to Boston/WIRC. <br /><br />In 2003, when I broke the 50s lwt world record, I rowed 6:36 in Toronto, 6:33 in Elkhart, and 6:30 in Boston. In the same year, I rowed 6:29 in my USIRT trial at the beginning of November, and then 6:28 at BIRC a couple of weeks later.<br /><br />ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 27th, 2005, 6:54 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 28 2005, 10:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yes, you would. As would others. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />To be honest I dont care that much, there are other people who I know that are racing this weekend who 'are' important to me - but best of luck in however you choose to treat it. I guess that is another area we are different, when I race I want to do my best whereas for you it is just a 'plane ticket'<br />But then I am very much a novice compared to you and still enjoy competing, never having scaled the heights you have nor likely to.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>In 2003, when I broke the 50s lwt world record<br />ranger<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well done, that is about 5 posts you got thru without mentioning that - again<br /><br />George<br />

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » January 27th, 2005, 7:14 pm

Got sniffles still, did no training yesterday so did a 10k today on-line with Nigel. 36:08.5 (1:48.4) Total of 12K. <br /><br />Sir Pirate<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 27th, 2005, 8:29 pm

I'm sure Rich wants to do his best when he competes, however that is not so easy, for anyone.<br /><br />There is a certain amount of pain involved, and going 100% in a race is entirely different than day to day training.<br /><br />This could very well be the reason for his picking lower stroke rates in the earlier events. They aren't as fast, but then they won't hurt as much either.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 27th, 2005, 8:36 pm

This morning:<br /><br />1:00 woodchopper exercise<br />10:00 running on treadmill at 180 spm<br /><br />20:00 at 2:05 pace / 30 spm / 84 df<br /><br />10x 4:00 at < 1:57 pace / 32/33 spm / 90 df<br />4:00 easier between / 80:00 total / 2:07.5 pace overall<br />85.5% heart rate at end of 10th / < 60% on recoveries<br /><br />4 sets of 5x 30 seconds at < 1:50 pace / 90 df<br />:30 easier between / 3:00 between sets<br />set times 2:03.3, 2:02.3, 2:01.2, 2:00.1

[old] hwt · Post by **[old] hwt** » January 27th, 2005, 9:20 pm

60min @21 @ 2:03.6