What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 26th, 2005, 4:37 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2005, 01:54 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Nothing defensive here at all. Yes, I understood the request and answered. The further comment was just further comment. Perhaps I am wrong, but like many here, George seems to be searching for some measure of my performance through the description of my workout. ranger </td></tr></table> Thankyou for your comments Ranger but it was a simple question that maybe you just didnt have an answer for. I could also post here that I did 10k or what ever at 1:30 for my training today but leave out the fact that it was spread over 2 hours - factually correct but misleading none the less as to the actual intensity of the session and the phsiological training benefit. You also make the comment about possibly measuring your performance thru a description of your workout, what other way is there, why do you post the 'numbers' if it is not a measure / reflection of performance - why do you post on this thread if you dont want people to ask? It is like playing for fun but keeping score - they dont 'compute'. This thread is about sharing what we do in training so that others can learn from our experinces and get ideas for their own endeavours. Thus we often see someone seeking clarification of why / how someone does a particular session. I just find the fact that you cant or wont do that interesting - I think if your going to post those sorts of numbers it is not unreasonable to expect to be asked to provide some clarification. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> But training isn't racing. I am just working out. </td></tr></table> A final note - look back thru this thread and look at the advice / comments you have given people on their training and how it relates to their goals / racing - look at the times you have made the statement that if you can do 'X' time for a session then in some way that will give you a 'Y' indication of your 2k time. Training isnt racing we agree, but it is a pre-curser for the competitive erger - or are they to just working out? George ps If you think I am having a 'go' at you now, you would be right

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 26th, 2005, 5:06 pm

12k this morning 11k this afternoon. mostly fastish (for me) and working on the stroke.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 26th, 2005, 5:48 pm

George, Maybe this will help. Monday I did quite a bit of rowing at 1:50 pace or faster. I kept a nice smooth even rhythm and kept this up for long stretches, until I got tired, then slowed down, then picked back up and did it again, for 2 hours, or so. Hope that helps.

[old] donm79 · Post by **[old] donm79** » January 26th, 2005, 6:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 26 2005, 04:48 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>George, Maybe this will help. Monday I did quite a bit of rowing at 1:50 pace or faster. I kept a nice smooth even rhythm and kept this up for long stretches, until I got tired, then slowed down, then picked back up and did it again, for 2 hours, or so. Hope that helps. </td></tr></table> How much of the two hours was 1:50 or faster? Just wondered, considering that that is faster than your 2k pace.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 26th, 2005, 6:13 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 27 2005, 10:48 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>George, Maybe this will help. Monday I did quite a bit of rowing at 1:50 pace or faster. I kept a nice smooth even rhythm and kept this up for long stretches, until I got tired, then slowed down, then picked back up and did it again, for 2 hours, or so. Hope that helps. </td></tr></table> Yes John your post is perfectly clear and I can understand what your doing - but one question Did you have in mind an approximate average you wanted to get to over the 2hours and did you control you pace by rate or effort, that is one I am never quite sure of what to do as it would have different results? I have never done 2 hours and dont fancy it, but have done an hour like that, maybe flowing between 1:50 and 2:00 with a rough goal of a 1:55 average at the end. regds George

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 26th, 2005, 7:12 pm

George and Don, Well maybe I was being just a bit facetious. Where is that embarrassed smilie. I did do 1:50 pace but only for 30 seconds at a time. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Did you have in mind an approximate average you wanted to get to over the 2hours and did you control you pace by rate or effort, that is one I am never quite sure of what to do as it would have different results? </td></tr></table> I do have an average in mind and stay very closely to this through the session. The rate and effort vary to keep to my predetermined averages. Currently I'm doing two sessions a week and the other days are easy distance. The sessions consist of warmup, main session, and then either cooldown or some sprints at the end. The warmup ranges from 20 minutes to an hour, depending on the main session, which (this week) is 40 to 80 minutes or so, then a 20 minutes of sprints or else cooldown. This has been coming along well the last 3-4 weeks and this week I'm revising to do the sprints as were done last summer instead of the cooldown.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » January 26th, 2005, 7:58 pm

No problem John, I had guessed at the subtle point you made in your origional post - it was indeed a good way of highlighting the situation shall we say - still those are good distances you are racking up and more than I could / would choose to endure. George

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 4:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>A final note - look back thru this thread and look at the advice / comments you have given people on their training and how it relates to their goals / racing - look at the times you have made the statement that if you can do 'X' time for a session then in some way that will give you a 'Y' indication of your 2k time. Training isnt racing we agree, but it is a pre-curser for the competitive erger - or are they to just working out? </td></tr></table> I did indeed clarify for you what I did, if it was unclear in the first place. This is the kind of rowing that I have been doing all year long, and I have explained it many times, so I guess I didn't think it needed any further explanation. Using times for certain workouts in order to predict what time can be done for the 2K is a pretty special exercise, I think, and not at all at the center of training. Yes, it is possible to do and important to do, but that is about the extent of it. It isn't in itself training (or whatever). It is just a by-product of (certain sorts of) training. It helps you know what pace you might set for the first 1K in a 2K race, if you don't know already or don't have a good feel for such things. Yes, I think it can be useful to do certain sorts of racing in training, just as it is important to row hard more generally, if you want to get better. But no, I don't think that this sort of racing is the center of good training, either. In fact, just the opposite. The most fundamental thing you should do to be a good erger, I think, is just be in generally good condition, a good overall athlete. Rowing is physically demanding. Therefore, to be able to row well at all, you need to keep up your overall physical condition. This doesn't have anything to do with racing workouts to see what time you can get. It doesn't even involve rowing. I jump rope for an hour a day, step for two hours, and during racing season do an hour of sit ups. Every day. I think these things are the most important things I do for my rowing. The next best thing you can do for your rowing is to establish endurance, technical proficiency, and CV efficiency with a strong stroke. This also doesn't involve racing workouts. Just the opposite. It involves rowing as easily as you can for a long distance at some pace and rate. This is what I have been doing lately. The next best thing you can do for your rowing, it seems, is to train well within yourself at the various training bands. That is, you should always get as far and fast as you can rowing as easily as you can before you move on to harder rowing. That is, you should try to get as far and fast as you can at 70% MHR before you move on to rowing at 80%, and so forth. In this rowing, it also seems crucial that you maintain a strong stroke, one that is close to the stroke you would use in a 2K. This also doesn't involve racing workouts. The rate and heart rate limitations on this sort of rowing necessarily depress how fast you can row, relative to some limit. You can row faster at a free rate than at a restricted rate and you can row faster at 100% MHR than at 80% MHR. Rowing for two hours at 2:00 pace and 16 spm or 1:48 and 22 spm is not racing at all and perhaps has no bearing on what and how you can race. But it can be _excellent_ training. If your primary practice is to race workouts, you do none of the above, and in the process, severely undermine your potential as a rower. If you race workouts before you are in good physical condition, before you are technically efficient with a strong stroke, and before you have developed your full CV capacity in physiological conditions that encourage the full range of improvements that can be achieved, you just strain yourself from day to day, flood yourself with lactic acid, and in most cases, repeatedly fail to do what you both desire and are (actually) fully capable of doing, if you learned to train correctly rather than racing your workouts. My answer to your question, then, is "yes indeed." IMHO, most of the best training is just "working out." It isn't racing and it has little bearing on what you might row in a 2K, at least as a specific prediction. Indeed, for me, most of this "working out" is not even rowing. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 5:14 am

George-- Here's a good parallel: A student worries and worries about their poor performance in school. You ask them their habits. Well, they say, I know it is not the _best_ thing to do, but because I like the excitement of a full challenge rather than the daily grind, because I like to know exactly where I am with things and not be uncertain about my progress, and because my commitments elsewhere (the bars, my friends, sports, movies, video games, job, etc.) don't leave me much time, I skip all of my lectures and readings and only go to the exams. Problem is: I never do very well on those exams, and I can't figure out why! I try hard. In fact, I try to the limits of my ability, again and again. But I always get the same disappointing result. ranger

[old] tomhz · Post by **[old] tomhz** » January 27th, 2005, 5:18 am

Yesterday 50min @1:59.2 average. Happy with that, as this is the pace for my 60min PB (15100). It was never an all-out effort, and pace was dropping gradually from 2:01 to 1:58. Tom

[old] peterb · Post by **[old] peterb** » January 27th, 2005, 6:35 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(tomhz @ Jan 27 2005, 05:18 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Yesterday 50min @1:59.2 average. Happy with that, as this is the pace for my 60min PB (15100). It was never an all-out effort, and pace was dropping gradually from 2:01 to 1:58. Tom </td></tr></table> Howdy Tom, Well done!!!! Looks like you are right on schedule with your training plan. Might we be seeing a crack at the 60min PB soon? Bill emailed that he is back on his steady diet of 8Ks. He always seems to do well when he is working that distance. Looking forward to the Feb 1 Quarterly update. Not much change at my end. Hopefully some SB / PB attempts in Feb, but I need to get that HM done to pull up into contention with the two of you All the Best, Peter

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 6:49 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>ps If you think I am having a 'go' at you now, you would be right </td></tr></table> George-- Just some casual advice: It would be to your benefit, I think, if you had a (better) "go" at your training rather than wasting your time having a (poor) "go" at me here on the web. Your various "goings," I think, have similar difficulties. What in the world could be the (substantial, productive) purpose of you having a "go" at me about my training, reporting of my training on this forum, and so forth? I am surely rowing on and having a great time at it, but I have already realized my highest hopes and best dreams in my rowing--repeatedly, under high pressure and intense scrutiny, and in all of the biggest venues in indoor rowing. Been there, done that. If you have high hopes, as you do, it's _you_ that still have a big job to do to realize them. You need to be taking _yourself_ to task, not me. ranger P.S. There's a lot more to come with my rowing, too, given the new five-year veteran categories at the CRASH-Bs/WIRC, not to mention rowing on the water.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2005, 7:30 am

Yesterday: 1000 sit ups, an hour of skipping, 20K erg, 2 hours of stepping Today: 1000 sit ups, an hour of skipping, 20K erg, 2 hours of stepping Lots of work, no numbers ranger

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 27th, 2005, 7:45 am

06.30, 6k at 2.07, 60 min bike medium intensity, 14k at 2.07, 40 mins stepper at 215 watts, 2k at 2.07, have reduded intesity for all workouts, still burning the calories but not knackering myself daily. It was 2.30am before I ot to sleep last night, too exited by the Wirc race coming up, and it's still 17 days away, how sad is that?

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » January 27th, 2005, 10:00 am

recovery row. 60 mins strapless at 20-22 spm and 2:03 split.