What Training Have You Done Today???

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 21st, 2005, 6:12 am

60 mins stepper (technogym type) @ 290 watts 30 mins bike, 5k erg, started salivating for grapefruits and juice 1/2 way thru the bike 79.4 kilos today

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 21st, 2005, 7:18 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Wow, that is some deficit. No wonder it is so dreadful. </td></tr></table> Jim-- Dreadful? When did I say that? I said just the opposite. I said that I eat _normally_, probably about 3500 calories a day. Therefore, I feel just fine. I have a big dinner. I go to bed with a full stomach. I eat a substantial breakfast. I have plenty of fuel when I do my hard erging in the early morning. I _have_ found it helps a little with the weight loss to skimp on lunch, but I don't find that very difficult at all, because I do my long, low intensity stepping routines in the afternoon and, a few minutes into the routine, I mobilize fat for fuel and feel just fine. I also have enough control of my weight now that I don't even have to start working on it until about 2 weeks before a competition. At other times, I eat (and drink!) _everything_ I want. This is hardly a "spartan" routine. I suppose what I miss most when I don't eat as much is just random indulgence, but really, who _needs_ to be indulgent? Especially when the constraint is for only a couple of weeks. Just so I don't let it distract me, I don't weigh myself now until the week before a competition. I don't know, but I would suppose that your experience has little resemblance to mine. Are you saying that you did 5-6 hours of exercise a day, regularly, for long stretches (e.g., several years)? If not, then I am not sure that there is any parallel. The diet I follow to make weight has (obviously) had no effect whatsoever on my performances. "Official" advice also doesn't have much to do with anything if the cases are not parallel. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 21st, 2005, 7:27 am

Time for AT rowing This morning: An hour of skipping, 5K (17:30), 2K (7:00), 2 x 1K (1:40), 4 x 500 (1:36), and some work on technique at high stroke rates. Another similar session this afternoon, instead of stepping. Good news. My anaerobic threshold seems to have dropped to 1:45 pace (from 1:48). I got through a 5K at 1:45 this morning with my heart rate below 172 bpm, although it rose to just about that at the end. My heart rode along in the middle 160s for the first 3K or so. New stroke feels great, especially if I lighten up a bit and trade some rate for pace at higher stroke rates. I'll just keep rowing right at my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm) for the next few days, two sessions a day if I can. ranger

[old] Nuts & Bolts · Post by **[old] Nuts & Bolts** » January 21st, 2005, 7:57 am

Some nice sessions Ranger I am guessing that you rowed your 5K at 26spm, I think we are round about the same sort of form as each other, I can row a 1:45 pace 5K at 22spm at a push, 24spm is fine for me. I only did 60 mins UT2 & 40 mins UT1 yesterday. I am hoping to row just over 33400m (1:47.8) in 120mins at 24spm this weekend, this will be quicker than my planed Marathon pace. If I can hit this target and come through it without to many problems, I may attempt the Full Marathon 10-12 weeks later. Keep working hard Oh, yes I have heard of Mr Watt, but I don't know him.

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 21st, 2005, 9:19 am

Nuts, what about some stat's?

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 21st, 2005, 4:28 pm

This afternoon; 10 x 1500m with 1 min rests, average split was 1.49.6, took it easy for first 5 so will re-do this again next week. 20 mins stepper, 5 mins elliptical.

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » January 21st, 2005, 4:47 pm

Nice set of 10x1500m Roy Nothing again for me today, legs so heavy for the 2nd day on the trot. Will hope to get a few good session on e-row over the weekend. Sir Pirate

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » January 21st, 2005, 5:23 pm

Ranger, Here's where I came up with "dreadful" Ranger: <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"It might also be interesting to row a race where I don't have to starve myself for a couple of weeks, eat next to nothing the day before, go to the weigh-in dehydrated, and somehow try to get enough food and water in my body in the hour or so before I start warming up to race" </td></tr></table> Or in response to Roy's post race interest in Steak, Blueberry pancakes and 10 pints you were quick to reply with <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>"stop talking about food" </td></tr></table> Clearly just fun. But I know when you are in debt this food denial thing is tough. Perhaps summarizing this as dreadful was too strong. Sorry. At any rate. Men our size use about 2400 calories in a day of normal daily activity. If you load on 5 hours of exercise (at your intensity) you are burning maybe another 4000Kcal, maybe 5000. So the equilibrium diet is a 6400-7400Kcal diet. If you eat 3500 Kcal then you are running a 2900-3900Kcal deficit (a pound of fat a day). When I rowed on the water and we needed to burn a few pounds quickly for racing we were rowing two hard hours a day or an equilibrium requirement of 4500Kcal. To lose the weight we ate "normal" as you seem to (about 3000Kcal). That 1500Kcal deficit give me and the rest of the crew a starving feeling and a lot of complaining. It is only that experience that the 1800Kcal Max deficit ACSM guideline seems to square with my reality. Even at 1500Kcal, I think we had some iffy races at the larger regional races and a poor result at the Dad Vails (National Championships). We had set a home course record a few weeks earlier before the dieting, so it was a big disappointment. Note Roy Brook has lost 25 lbs since BIRC (60 days ago). That is 0.4 lbs a day or running a 1400Kcal/day deficit (3500*0.4). It's my guess that more than 1800Kcal would start to drain Roy. If you can do this 3600Kcal deficit regularly over a few weeks, then can I just note this as being really exceptional in comparison to others 2k rowers who have run deficits while training for racing? Your efforts to race 2k at a very low bodyfat % have been successful, no doubt. I've only had to play that game once or twice at a modest level so I only note these differences out of respect, really. Here's a little thing about how Lance Armstrong manages the need to train for superhuman performance and manage weight goals for racing. <a href='http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/m ... rongco.ap/' target='_blank'>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/m ... gco.ap/</a>

[old] Bill · Post by **[old] Bill** » January 21st, 2005, 11:40 pm

Hello, 60min @ 2:10 20spm avg pulse 142 and 145 at end. Trying to do the UT2 exercises in the manual but am still 7 seconds off the pace for a given spm and pulse. Bill

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 22nd, 2005, 4:16 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Your efforts to race 2k at a very low bodyfat % have been successful, no doubt. </td></tr></table> Yes. So all of this discussion, at least as it relates to danger, effectiveness, etc., is moot. If you say that others (including you) would feel differently and perform differently, then you just point up the fact that I brought up: The cases are not parallel. I suspect that your life history, what you eat, and when, how, for how long, and at what intensity you do the work you do from day to day makes a tremendous amount of difference in these matters of weight loss. The figures I am citing are 1-1.5 hours or so of pretty hard erging and 4.5-5 hours of low intensity work, with the heart rate at 110-140 bpm, done in various ways (stepping, biking, swimming, running, skipping, etc.). I also do this work in a certain order and at a certain time of day. I do the work on an empty stomach in the morning. I never work hard on the erg until I have jumped rope for an hour. Then after I erg, I eat just a little and go right on to do a long fat-burning routine (2-3 hours or biking or stepping). This means, I suspect, that all of the hard rowing that I do uses _fat_ for fuel rather than carbohydrate, as does most of the low intensity work that I do. Then the diet I follow during this weight loss is almost exclusively carbohydrate. The work load I cite also follows in the wake of my 25 years of marathon running, which usually had me out on the road 1-2 hours a day, every day, for most of my life. Having this kind of life history makes me a little different from the average college kid. The work you cite is (probably?) two hours of hard on water rowing, with little or no low intensity work as a warm up, and no cross-training at low heart rates subsequently. I don't know what diet you used or when you did the work you did. You also don't have my life history with endurance sports, and you were about three decades younger. The comments I made about the strain to make weight were more related to the final push before the race than to the dieting the two weeks before. I do indeed have to be careful with my eating the day before a race and the morning of. This is not at all ideal, I think, but it seems to be the case for many lightweights, especially the good ones. Given the energy it takes to psyche yourself up for a 2K, especially when you are rowing your 2K at world record levels, is enough strain without having to worry about diet, too. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 22nd, 2005, 6:49 am

an hour of skipping, 20K UT1 and AT (1:40-1:45), with breaks Good news. Getting training effects all over the place now. _Very_ encouraging. Starting to row 1:45 @ 25 spm solidly at 165 bpm or so. If I can lock this in place, my distance goals (17K for an hour, 35:00 10K, etc.) are in the bag. Getting _very_ relaxed at 1:45 @ 25 spm. Using my back more effectively now at low drag, recruiting more and more of my natural power. I might indeed have a chance of getting my anaerobic threshold down to 1:43. I should know by the end of next week. 114 df. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 22nd, 2005, 1:15 pm

2 hours on the stepper at 280 watts. _Very_ nice. Training effects showing up here, too. Heart rate flat at 137 bpm (60% MHR). This running is now _very_ smooth and cool. Not even breathing hard, much less sweat. ranger

[old] Rocket Roy · Post by **[old] Rocket Roy** » January 22nd, 2005, 5:17 pm

11k this morning, pm, 40 mins stepper 290 watts, 5k easy, 25 mins bike 78.9 k

[old] brianric · Post by **[old] brianric** » January 22nd, 2005, 6:11 pm

I don't exactly burn it up on the rower. Session one on the C2, 90 minutes, 19,526 meters. 132.0 watts. Session 2, 60 minutes, 13,028 meters, 132.2 watts. Total of 32,554 meters.

[old] Jim Barry · Post by **[old] Jim Barry** » January 23rd, 2005, 12:10 am

5k 18:56 (29spm) Drive to Recovery 1:2.1 (as planned) 15 pull ups