Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] nharrigan · Post by **[old] nharrigan** » February 19th, 2006, 5:48 pm

I personally like the 4x1000m workout. It pushes me to my limits- a combo of gylcogen depletion and oxygen debt. The 4th one is also a mental challenge- nothing left, like the end of a good 2k. The amazing thing is you can keep getting faster. Today- last L3 of the season and a season's best 12k 42:54. Yesterday- 2x 40min. L4 with 1 min break. This was my first time doing this L4 (usually I do 60min) The break helped a lot. I was able to get some water and dry off. 190 188 190 196 then 196 190 188 190. Less than a week to Crash-bs. Good luck to all. Regards, Neil

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » February 24th, 2006, 8:47 am

Good luck to whomever is racing tomorrow. Unfortunately I will not be racing. My back is still givng me some problems when I begin to push the pace

. However I will be going to the races anyway to root for any of you are racing

. I will try to look up your names and find when you are rowing and which rower you are using. I wll even bring my camera along for photos

. Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 24th, 2006, 9:20 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ragiarn @ Feb 24 2006, 07:47 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Good luck to whomever is racing tomorrow. Unfortunately I will not be racing. My back is still givng me some problems when I begin to push the pace

. However I will be going to the races anyway to root for any of you are racing

. I will try to look up your names and find when you are rowing and which rower you are using. I wll even bring my camera along for photos

. Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT </td></tr></table> Too bad the back wouldn't cooperate Ralph, but at least you'll get to be there and watch the action ... get lots of great pictures!

[old] nharrigan · Post by **[old] nharrigan** » February 24th, 2006, 10:46 am

Ralph- Sorry to hear about your back. Hopefully you'll be back next year.

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » February 25th, 2006, 5:59 pm

Just returned from Boston and the Crash-B races. While I would have liked to participate I nevertheless enjoyed the races. The highlight was watching Mike Caviston come from 4th place in the last 600 meters to just narrowly miss winning by a mere .1 second. After the race I had the pleasure of meeting with Mike and he admitted that he was a little to conservative in the beginning. I believe Mike could have won this race. While the winner did all he could to hang in there at the end and just about collapsed after the race Mike gingerly got up picked up his nap sack and matter of factly walked away while the floor was littered with participants gasping for air and unable to get up. Now that the Crash B races are over I have begun my training for cycling. I have decided to get back into bicycle racing with the other old farts after a 10 year lay off from racing. I was in communication with one of my old racing buddies and he told me that the same guys who were kicking our butts in the past are still out there kicking the same butts. I plan to continue rowing but only 3-4 times weekly. My goal is to regain my endurance and try to sustain it through the summer by concentrating mostly on level 3&4 and doing a weekly 2 or 3 workout. Come August I will expand my training to the full WP schedule. My cycling training is still indoors since the roads are too sandy to safely ride. I have a wind trainer with watt readouts. I have started to actually adapt the WP rowing concepts to training on the wind trainer with some success. I am using level 4 workouts with steady resistance and alternating cadence from 70-80-90 in 2 minute blocks. I have also started a level 3 workout with steady pace. I have not put too much thought into level 2&3 workouts. I realy think that the basic concepts of the WP can be adapted very successfully to indoor training on a wind trainer. I was wondering what type of workouts the others in this group plan for the next 6 months. Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 25th, 2006, 6:10 pm

Ralph: Interesting that you've decided to get back into cycling as well as applying the WP to cycling training. I am considering buying a Tacx Fortius setup for indoor cycling training after (about) a 27 year haitus from racing, time trails, and long touring rides. Once my high school buddies (who I ran with three competitive seasons each year and cycled with during summers) and I all took to the four corners of the world to chase our careers, the cycling stopped. Now seems a great time for us (you and me that is) to get re-started, no? The Tacx hardware and software looks pretty slick, and come recommended from the UK C2 forum. Have you seen it in action, or know of anyone who has? I'm interested, but the investment is not insignificant, because I'd be buying a road bike and the Tacx hardware/software all at one time. See: www.tacx.com Please do let me know if you have any skinny on it. Thanks Ralph! -- Mark

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » February 25th, 2006, 8:35 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 26 2006, 06:10 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ralph: Interesting that you've decided to get back into cycling as well as applying the WP to cycling training. I am considering buying a Tacx Fortius setup for indoor cycling training after (about) a 27 year haitus from racing, time trails, and long touring rides. Once my high school buddies (who I ran with three competitive seasons each year and cycled with during summers) and I all took to the four corners of the world to chase our careers, the cycling stopped. Now seems a great time for us (you and me that is) to get re-started, no? The Tacx hardware and software looks pretty slick, and come recommended from the UK C2 forum. Have you seen it in action, or know of anyone who has? I'm interested, but the investment is not insignificant, because I'd be buying a road bike and the Tacx hardware/software all at one time. See: www.tacx.com Please do let me know if you have any skinny on it. Thanks Ralph! -- Mark </td></tr></table> Mark, I hope you don't mind me chipping in here. I believe the Rolls Royce of all stationary bike systems is the Computrainer system. It is far superior to the Tacx. It is more expensive (bit like Concept2) but has a real "road feel'. You can download any course from around the world and the inbuilt program options are excellent. My wife trains exclusively on the system for her summer bike/triathlon season. I believe there are great cross training benefits if you don't want to only erg. Her 2nd at the WIRC have shown that to be the case. Good Luck, Chris

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 25th, 2006, 8:58 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cbrock @ Feb 25 2006, 07:35 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 26 2006, 06:10 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ralph: Interesting that you've decided to get back into cycling as well as applying the WP to cycling training. I am considering buying a Tacx Fortius setup for indoor cycling training after (about) a 27 year haitus from racing, time trails, and long touring rides. Once my high school buddies (who I ran with three competitive seasons each year and cycled with during summers) and I all took to the four corners of the world to chase our careers, the cycling stopped. Now seems a great time for us (you and me that is) to get re-started, no? The Tacx hardware and software looks pretty slick, and come recommended from the UK C2 forum. Have you seen it in action, or know of anyone who has? I'm interested, but the investment is not insignificant, because I'd be buying a road bike and the Tacx hardware/software all at one time. See: www.tacx.com Please do let me know if you have any skinny on it. Thanks Ralph! -- Mark </td></tr></table> Mark, I hope you don't mind me chipping in here. I believe the Rolls Royce of all stationary bike systems is the Computrainer system. It is far superior to the Tacx. It is more expensive (bit like Concept2) but has a real "road feel'. You can download any course from around the world and the inbuilt program options are excellent. My wife trains exclusively on the system for her summer bike/triathlon season. I believe there are great cross training benefits if you don't want to only erg. Her 2nd at the WIRC have shown that to be the case. Good Luck, Chris </td></tr></table> Chris: Don't mind at all ... in fact, I appreciate it very much ... thanks ... I'll certainly check it out. Did she check out the other systems? How did she settle on the Computrainer? Looking for her thought process and the pros and cons. Chris, who's your wife? I want to check out her WIRC performance. Regards -- Mark

[old] cbrock · Post by **[old] cbrock** » February 25th, 2006, 9:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 26 2006, 08:58 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Regards -- Mark </td></tr></table> I really chose the system rather than Tessa. The system is calibrated to replicate the change in course terrain. So if you want to ride the Tour de France you actually experience the same degree of difficulty as the actual mountain course. It has heart rate, watts, pacer and pre selected courses that you can ride. You can also download any course you want from the internet. I hated "Wind Trainers" because they had no road feel and were so boring. It is also very dangerous doing hard time trials on most roads outside unless you are lucky enough to live somewhere really quiet. No issues about sun, rain, heat or cold either! Looked at tracx but thought it was fairly limited. The great thing about the computrainer is that you are able to continually monitor your performance. If you can ride a 40k T/T on the CT at a given pace that is the pace you should expect to ride outside in calm conditions. You calibrate your tyre pressure before each ride. Each ride is comparable because there are no variables. Bit like the Concept2 and a great point for comparison as to your improvement. In this case you kill yourself doing a 16k TT rather than a 2k erg! Tess competed in the 50-54 LW against JVB. Regards, Chris

[old] ragiarn · Post by **[old] ragiarn** » February 26th, 2006, 12:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 25 2006, 06:10 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ralph: Interesting that you've decided to get back into cycling as well as applying the WP to cycling training. I am considering buying a Tacx Fortius setup for indoor cycling training after (about) a 27 year haitus from racing, time trails, and long touring rides. Once my high school buddies (who I ran with three competitive seasons each year and cycled with during summers) and I all took to the four corners of the world to chase our careers, the cycling stopped. Now seems a great time for us (you and me that is) to get re-started, no? The Tacx hardware and software looks pretty slick, and come recommended from the UK C2 forum. Have you seen it in action, or know of anyone who has? I'm interested, but the investment is not insignificant, because I'd be buying a road bike and the Tacx hardware/software all at one time. See: www.tacx.com Please do let me know if you have any skinny on it. Thanks Ralph! -- Mark </td></tr></table> I checked out the website and the model you noted. Personally I really am not a great fan of watching cycling video while training or even competing against a video. What I do like about the trainer is the feed back of watts, cadence and Heart rate as well as the ability to alter the resistance (slope). I think that the model you have chosen is an excellent choice. Personally I would opt for the Tacx Flow trainer: <a href="http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?brand=5052&init=y" target="_blank">http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?bran ... t=y</a> Tacx Flow Trainer The science of home training …at your fingertips. Cyclists with ... more TX-FT Tacx $449.95 now $399.95 Tacx T1900 I-Magic Virtual Trainer Take your indoor training to the next level with interactive resp ... more TX-MGC Tacx $724.95 now $599.95 I think you are spending an extra $300.00 for some extra bells and whistles. I would consider using that $300 plus some extra to have the ability to have watts meter for the road bike you are about to purchase Most serious cyclists are using Watts as well as heart rate as a gauge of training both on their trainers as well as on their road bikes. The watts feedback is the most important along with the cadence. I also find the HR monitor extremely useful. The model I purchase is a generic marketed by a Online Bike outlet (Nashbar)(http://www.nashbar.com) It cost me $230.00 and has the above functions except for the Heart rate (I have my own Heart rate monitor) and the video software. When I row I generally use watts instead of av/500 as a gauge. av watt 203= av/500 2:00 av watt 243= 1:52.0 av watt 263 = 1:50.0. As I mentioned previously I have set up a cycling training program following the WP workout. So for I have set up Level 4 workouts and level 3 workouts. I have been experimenting with it for the past several days now and I am convinced that it will give me the same benefits in cycling that the WP gave me for rowing. I would be willing share my experience with you or anyone interested. When I was actively racing I also coached junior cyclists two of whom went to be Category I racers and one even went on to win several national silver medals as a junior and also became a coach for Junior cyclists at the Olympic Training center in Colorado. Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 26th, 2006, 12:23 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cbrock @ Feb 25 2006, 08:18 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 26 2006, 08:58 AM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Regards -- Mark </td></tr></table> I really chose the system rather than Tessa. The system is calibrated to replicate the change in course terrain. So if you want to ride the Tour de France you actually experience the same degree of difficulty as the actual mountain course. It has heart rate, watts, pacer and pre selected courses that you can ride. You can also download any course you want from the internet. I hated "Wind Trainers" because they had no road feel and were so boring. It is also very dangerous doing hard time trials on most roads outside unless you are lucky enough to live somewhere really quiet. No issues about sun, rain, heat or cold either! Looked at tracx but thought it was fairly limited. The great thing about the computrainer is that you are able to continually monitor your performance. If you can ride a 40k T/T on the CT at a given pace that is the pace you should expect to ride outside in calm conditions. You calibrate your tyre pressure before each ride. Each ride is comparable because there are no variables. Bit like the Concept2 and a great point for comparison as to your improvement. In this case you kill yourself doing a 16k TT rather than a 2k erg! Tess competed in the 50-54 LW against JVB. Regards, Chris </td></tr></table> Chris: Very interesting ... I agree on the wind trainer comment. I hated that thing (still have it stowed away in the basement). I'll need to spend some time at the web site for Computrainer. Tess kicked some tail yesterday ... congratulate her for me. PB for her? -- Mark

[old] johnmcclellan · Post by **[old] johnmcclellan** » February 26th, 2006, 6:56 pm

Hello everyone, (my actual intended post vs. new thread I accidentally started) I've been a guest viewer of this great forum for the last couple months as I prepped for CRASH-Bs. A colleague of mine rowed lt wt for Harvard, and we pushed each other into this. I'm an all-around endurance athlete whose daughter joined crew, so I bought her a C2 for training last summer. At the end of my cycling and running seasons last fall I started to use the erg and thought it was pretty cool (lots of pain, constant performance info in my face, etc.) I trolled through the various threads and thought this one had the most useful and proven training principles. I combined several of the WP workouts with my cycling training and squeezed a few pounds off. To make a long story short, I had a really successful row at CRASH-Bs - 6:47.4 in the 40+ lightweights, and I would not have been able to do it without reading all of the great postings from Mike and all of you regular contributors. I had the chance to introduce myself to Mike after the race and thank him in person. I'm looking forward to competing next year, and I'll be part of this thread - learning much more than I'm contributing, I'm sure. But I do know a bit about cycling, and I'll be training for my third participation in the Boston-Montreal-Boston 1200km in August. I'm sure that the rowing has given me a great leg up on my prep for that event. So on the indoor trainer debate...your legs and your mental focus will matter much more than Tacx vs. Computrainer vs. Cyclops vs. whatever. They will all work really well - as with all things, you get what you pay for. My own solution is using a basic fluid trainer with a power meter on the bike (I use a Powertap), instead of on the trainer so that you don't have to change anything when you head outdoors. I'm not interested in simulating a road cross on the trainer - it will never be the same. Give me the interval times, power ranges and I'm set. But that's just me, everyone is different, and anything will work great if you are disciplined. Remember, the Soviet bloc countries dominated amateur cycling using junk equipment. Thanks for all the help so far, and I'm looking forward to training with you!

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » February 26th, 2006, 7:09 pm

John: All I can say is: 1) awesome CRASH-B time (and did you really have to go LW to give me even more tall competition)? 2) thanks for the cycling training input 3) welcome to the WP forum! Regards ... Mark

[old] johnmcclellan · Post by **[old] johnmcclellan** » February 26th, 2006, 10:36 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 26 2006, 06:09 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> (and did you really have to go LW to give me even more tall competition)? </td></tr></table> Hey Mark. Us tall types wish we could have the lats and deltoids of the less tall types

We got to make the most of what we've got! Now if I could have Mike's upper body on my leg length, but I guess that would rule out making 165... John

[old] tennstrike · Post by **[old] tennstrike** » February 27th, 2006, 12:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Feb 26 2006, 06:09 PM) </div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>John: All I can say is: 1) awesome CRASH-B time (and did you really have to go LW to give me even more tall competition)? 2) thanks for the cycling training input 3) welcome to the WP forum! Regards ... Mark </td></tr></table> Hey Mark: 7:19.0 ! Congratulations ! Also, congratulations to Mike! His 6:27.1 time would have won in 2005 but Paul Seibach dropped his time from 6:27.6 to 6:26.8. Wish I could have been there. If I can get below 7:05 by December of this year, I will. I've finally gotten my average for the 4x1K to just about 1:50.2, so it's time to go for another try at "whittlin' away". It's starting to seem like a really long process. Especially when you read some of these posts of guys saying "thought I'd start erging. Is 6:56 a good time?" Just have to keep at it, I guess. I'm not up to your numbers, but I'm over 80,000 a week. Did get a recent PB on the 6K at 23:30. My younger son finally getting below 21:00 inspired me. Looking forward to seeing both sons out on the water again. Daughter is rowing now also. Fortunately 2 of them are both on Sundays on the Schuylkill and the other is on Saturdays. Regards, Jeff