Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 1st, 2005, 7:08 pm

As I said in the previous post, just set the metronome beside you when you row.<br /><br />Then it is very easy to just press the button in mid recovery, to up the rating every few minutes or whenever you want to change it.<br /><br />

[old] Bill · Post by **[old] Bill** » November 1st, 2005, 9:43 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tomhz @ Nov 1 2005, 02:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Nov 1 2005, 02:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I would think a metrenome would be excellent, because you can set it 3 x faster than the beat you want and have a 2 tic recovery and drive on the third; it's finding a way to have one that will change every 2 minutes to the beat you want so you don't have to stop and reset the foolish thing, which seems like it would totally ruin the workout.<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carla, <br /><br />you could try the Ergmonitor software. It has a metronome that helps a lot hitting the right stroke rate AND right stroke/recovery ratio. With Ergmonitor you only need to focus on the right pace. The right stroke rate becomes child play!<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hello,<br /><br />I had a go at this last night using Rowpro - I was hopeless. Found it really difficult to do a strong slow drive and stay synchronised with paceboat.<br /><br />Tom - When using either Ergmonitor or Rowpro on these low spm's do you adjust the stroke recovery ration or just accept the defaults ?<br /><br />Bill - and HM coming soon about time I got ahead on Nonathlon<br />

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » November 2nd, 2005, 12:09 am

Thanks everyone for the helpful ideas.<br /><br />I tried my first Level 4 today. This is how it panned out:<br /><br />It should have been 168(2084)/172(2099)/176(2111)/180(2113).<br /><br />It was: 166(2076)/172(2110)/176(2139)/182(2151).<br /><br />So basically it was close to perfect, the first 10' being minus 8 m and minus 2 strokes, the second 10' plus 11 meters and right on the strokes, the third 10' plus 28 meters and right on the strokes, and the last 10' plus 2 strokes and 38 meters.<br /><br />The metrenome made it very easy to hit the stroke rates, a great improvement over watching the seconds on the PM or trying to keep the spm on the PM reading the right number. The slowest mine will count is at 35 bpm so I tripled all the settings and used beat 1 for the drive and 2 beats for the recovery.<br /><br />My monitor is the PM2. Does anyone know how you make it tell you which interval you're doing while you're doing it? I had the workout posted on a white board with the stroke rates and paces and the intervals numbered but I kept getting confused which one I was doing.<br /><br />Also, it seems you can't set a rest time of 0 on the PM2. I think the shortest rest time you can set is 10 seconds so I had to do that, but I used it to reset the metrenome and start getting used to the new stroke rate for 2 strokes before it started counting.<br /><br />Rowing this extremely slowly seems to be making my stroke feel really jerky. Maybe it's always jerky but I can't tell when I go my normal pace/rate?<br /><br />I don't feel taxed in the slightest, so I think I should move up the chart somehow, but don't know how. Should I go for a slightly faster 2K pace, or do an increase in the number of strokes in the workout? <br /><br />Thanks for any help on this--Mike or anyone who has some solid experience with this.<br /><br />

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

Level 4 sessions have been a great assest for me in getting the longer sessions done. I usually do 40-minutes where the sequences are in 2-minute increments, which allows me to scroll through the <i>recall</i> to see if I hit the pace with the respective spm. I jut get locked in to the spm and pace.<br /><br />There is a Level 4 session that I had learned from one of Mike's posts, which he claims is very hard: 116 116 116 128 128 140. I have found that if I can hit that session for the chosen pace chart, than I can break that pace for 2k. It starts out innocently and becomes challenging in the second 128 and extremely challenging in the 140.<br /><br />Something to keep in mind with the PM's are that you can only be so accurate with your pace. If the PM2+ display shows 1:30, you are somewhere in-between 1:29.5 and 1:30.4 or its 1:29.6 and 1:30.4. I have only raced on the Model D's and have seen them display the pace with a tenths digit, which must be madness for someone trying to nail a particular pace. <br /><br />I was glad to see mentioned the importance of Level 1 and Level 2 scores. It is only in the last few weeks that I have been hitting those sessions again.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 2nd, 2005, 12:21 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 2 2005, 03:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I have only raced on the Model D's and have seen them display the pace with a tenths digit, which must be madness for someone trying to nail a particular pace. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Do you mean in the Main Pace display? I've never seen this, anyone else?<br />

[old] joanvb · Post by **[old] joanvb** » November 2nd, 2005, 1:15 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Do you mean in the Main Pace display? I've never seen this, anyone else?<br /> </td></tr></table> <br /><br />My Model D does not display tenths in the Main Pace display. While rowing, I see tenths in the smaller display of the average 500m pace (if set to display average).<br /><br />Joan

[old] tomhz · Post by **[old] tomhz** » November 2nd, 2005, 5:24 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bill @ Nov 2 2005, 01:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tomhz @ Nov 1 2005, 02:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Nov 1 2005, 02:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I would think a metrenome would be excellent, because you can set it 3 x faster than the beat you want and have a 2 tic recovery and drive on the third; it's finding a way to have one that will change every 2 minutes to the beat you want so you don't have to stop and reset the foolish thing, which seems like it would totally ruin the workout.<br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carla, <br /><br />you could try the Ergmonitor software. It has a metronome that helps a lot hitting the right stroke rate AND right stroke/recovery ratio. With Ergmonitor you only need to focus on the right pace. The right stroke rate becomes child play!<br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hello,<br /><br />I had a go at this last night using Rowpro - I was hopeless. Found it really difficult to do a strong slow drive and stay synchronised with paceboat.<br /><br />Tom - When using either Ergmonitor or Rowpro on these low spm's do you adjust the stroke recovery ration or just accept the defaults ?<br /><br />Bill - and HM coming soon about time I got ahead on Nonathlon <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bill, <br />I try the low spm's first using Ergmonitor. That shows me proper stroke/recovery ratio. Then I adjust the ratio in the metronome, to help me maintain the proper ratio. <br /><br />Tom

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » November 2nd, 2005, 7:54 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 2 2005, 10:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>There is a Level 4 session that I had learned from one of Mike's posts, which he claims is very hard: 116 116 116 128 128 140. I have found that if I can hit that session for the chosen pace chart, than I can break that pace for 2k. It starts out innocently and becomes challenging in the second 128 and extremely challenging in the 140. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Challenging, yes indeed! I just did that sequence tonight, and the last 3 minutes hurt, but it was fun nonetheless!<br />Thanks for bringing that sequence to our attention.<br />

[old] arakawa · Post by **[old] arakawa** » November 2nd, 2005, 9:53 pm

Upon the advice of Bill Moore, a WP acolyte and local indoor rower, I've decided to adopt the Wolverine Plan and use it to prep for the CRASH-B. I got a lot of help from Bill in setting up this plan and understanding how to progress from week to week, and I'm sharing it here so (a) I can get feedback, and ( other WP novices can learn. I believe everything I have below can be traced back directly to the WP document or something Mike Caviston posted.<br /><br />6 workouts a week<br />Day 1 - Level 1<br />Day 2 - Level 4 (40')<br />Day 3 - Level 2<br />Day 4 - Level 4 (4 x 10')<br />Day 5 - Level 3 (15k)<br />Day 6 - Level 4 (60')<br />Day 7 - rest<br /><br />2k reference time = 7:11.3<br />2k reference pace = 1:47.8<br />recovery pace = 2:32<br /><br />Level 1 @ 1:47.8<br /> 8 x 500<br /> 4 x 1k<br /> 4k pyramid<br /><br />Level 2 @ 1:56.7 (108.3% of 2k pace)<br /> 5 x 1500<br /> 4 x 2k<br /> 3k / 2.5k / 2k<br /> recovery distance = 75% of work distance<br /><br />Level 3 @ 2:04.6 (115.6% of 2k pace)<br /> 12k<br /> 15 x 3', 1' recovery<br /><br />Level 4<br /> 40' = 176/180/176/180<br /> 4 x 10' = ?<br /> 60' = 176/180/176/180/176/180<br /><br />The only question I have at this time is regarding the 4 x 10' intervals for Level 4. The WP document says that "Other variations include ... 4 x 10' at a proportionally greater intensity". How do I determine what the proportionally greater intensity is? Do I select 10' pieces that have a higher SPM than my 40' or 60' pieces (e.g. if I'm doing sequences that average 17.8 SPM for the long pieces, I select a sequence with a ~20 SPM, for example), or do I, only for the purposes of this interval workout, use a faster reference pace but otherwise use the same SPM (e.g. my reference pace is 1:48, so I use that pace to select the pace per stroke rate for the 40' and 60' workouts, but I use a reference pace of 1:43, for example, for the 4 x 10' workout)?<br /><br />If this question has already been answered, I apologize for asking it again - Mike Caviston has so much detailed information out there, there are some things I've only read twice or three times.

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » November 2nd, 2005, 10:38 pm

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Level 4 is all in 10' sequences. 40' = 176/180/176/180 because 176 is 10', 180 is 10', 176is 10', and 180 is 10'. 60'= 6 10' peices all strung together. I don' t think there is such a thing as a Level 4 60' or 40' that isn't made up of the shorter 10' bits.<br /><br />Guess I'd better go back and read some more...

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » November 2nd, 2005, 11:39 pm

Level 4 has 10 and 6 minute sets. Mike suggested that the 6' sets be used when increasing the time each week. (To get to 50', you could do 42' and 48' sessions made up of the 6' sets. I've always just bumped it by 10').<br /><br />FYI, a 4x10' is a 40' session.<br /><br />Also, keep the same reference pace for the "season", and increase the total strokes to increase the intensity. I've moved from 176/180 repetitions to 180/184. For 40', this would increase the total strokes by 16 over 40'. Mike gave a lot of advise on increasing this. There's an endless combination of sets to play with on this. Just hit your rates and paces before increasing the number of strokes for a given time.<br /><br />I'd also put an extra day between your L1 & L2 workouts. Since you'll be cranking the paces down each week, you'll want the recovery between these two intense workouts.<br /><br />Don't expect to perform your L1 & L2 workouts at the same pace. For example, start the 8x500 at your PB pace, but back off by 4 seconds for your first 4x1k. The first time you do these, set a goal pace you can achieve, and then you can start going faster each week. I've been pulling 1 second off every 3 week cycle, but that's sure to end soon.<br /><br />As I've said before, come on in, the water's fine. Start with one of the interval sessions. If you make a "mistake" don't worry about it. Just start putting in the time to do these sessions, and it will become clearer once you've experienced each workout. CRASH-Bs are 16+ weeks away, so you've got time to really benefit from using a training plan.

[old] kjgress · Post by **[old] kjgress** » November 3rd, 2005, 12:03 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(arakawa @ Nov 2 2005, 08:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />The only question I have at this time is regarding the 4 x 10' intervals for Level 4. The WP document says that "Other variations include ... 4 x 10' at a proportionally greater intensity". How do I determine what the proportionally greater intensity is? only read twice or three times. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />In some of the literature there is some info about 4x 10. Mike recommends it as a level 4 workout in the following parameters: There are at least 2 other level 4 workouts during the week using continuous formats and of at least 100 minutes duration. Choose a format so the stroke rate average for the total workout (all sets combined) is about 2 greater than the average for the other level 4 workouts (if your average stroke rate is currently 18.6 for the level 4 continuous then make the average for the 4x 10 around 20.6). He recommends 3:20 between pieces. I do it as an active recovery. <br /><br />Hope this helps!<br /><br />KJG<br />

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 3rd, 2005, 6:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I have only raced on the Model D's and have seen them display the pace with a tenths digit, which must be madness for someone trying to nail a particular pace. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />I stand corrected. I am thinking of RowPro. The RowPro displays your pace in tenths of second.

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » November 3rd, 2005, 9:26 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(kjgress @ Nov 3 2005, 12:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(arakawa @ Nov 2 2005, 08:53 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />The only question I have at this time is regarding the 4 x 10' intervals for Level 4. The WP document says that "Other variations include ... 4 x 10' at a proportionally greater intensity". How do I determine what the proportionally greater intensity is? only read twice or three times. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />In some of the literature there is some info about 4x 10. Mike recommends it as a level 4 workout in the following parameters: There are at least 2 other level 4 workouts during the week using continuous formats and of at least 100 minutes duration. Choose a format so the stroke rate average for the total workout (all sets combined) is about 2 greater than the average for the other level 4 workouts (if your average stroke rate is currently 18.6 for the level 4 continuous then make the average for the 4x 10 around 20.6). He recommends 3:20 between pieces. I do it as an active recovery. <br /><br />Hope this helps!<br /><br />KJG <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Cool. Lots of info to go through to get this kind of detail. Thanks for clarifying this workout.

[old] Dickie · Post by **[old] Dickie** » November 3rd, 2005, 11:40 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Nov 2 2005, 12:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thanks everyone for the helpful ideas.<br /><br />I tried my first Level 4 today. This is how it panned out:<br /><br />It should have been 168(2084)/172(2099)/176(2111)/180(2113).<br /><br />It was: 166(2076)/172(2110)/176(2139)/182(2151).<br /><br />So basically it was close to perfect, the first 10' being minus 8 m and minus 2 strokes, the second 10' plus 11 meters and right on the strokes, the third 10' plus 28 meters and right on the strokes, and the last 10' plus 2 strokes and 38 meters.<br /><br />The metrenome made it very easy to hit the stroke rates, a great improvement over watching the seconds on the PM or trying to keep the spm on the PM reading the right number. The slowest mine will count is at 35 bpm so I tripled all the settings and used beat 1 for the drive and 2 beats for the recovery.<br /><br />My monitor is the PM2. Does anyone know how you make it tell you which interval you're doing while you're doing it? I had the workout posted on a white board with the stroke rates and paces and the intervals numbered but I kept getting confused which one I was doing.<br /><br />Also, it seems you can't set a rest time of 0 on the PM2. I think the shortest rest time you can set is 10 seconds so I had to do that, but I used it to reset the metrenome and start getting used to the new stroke rate for 2 strokes before it started counting.<br /><br />Rowing this extremely slowly seems to be making my stroke feel really jerky. Maybe it's always jerky but I can't tell when I go my normal pace/rate?<br /><br />I don't feel taxed in the slightest, so I think I should move up the chart somehow, but don't know how. Should I go for a slightly faster 2K pace, or do an increase in the number of strokes in the workout? <br /><br />Thanks for any help on this--Mike or anyone who has some solid experience with this. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you have a computer near the erg, a copy of ergmonitor could solve your problems. Last night I set up my workout to do a 10 minute warmup followed by 172, 176, 180 and 184 sequences where I set up each 2 minute interval of each sequence to its own stroke rate and split goal. The software also allowed me to setup the 4, 3, 2, 1 minute splits of the 184 sequence with their own stroke rates and split goals. There were no rest times in the entire workout, the metronome in the software automatically adjusted to the stroke rate needed for each 2 minute piece and changed the displayed split goal to the one selected for the piece, so I did not have to keep track of which piece I was on. All I needed to do was to watch the metronome and keep the split to the displayed goal. For the first time I was able to get through a Level 4 and watch my favorite TV shows without messing up my workout plan.<br /><br /><br />

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