How to improve watts/distance and stay within heart rate......

[old wobbler]

Back ground. 63 year old 5'10" with a gangly 6' 4" arm span. Yes, I get a lot of leverage. 107kgs.
Using a Polar OH1+ HR monitor to the PM5 and a Garmin Vivo fitness tracker.

I have knee issues giving limited full movement of catch part of row.

Been rowing now since Feb 2025. Have 1 day off a week and vary between 6,000m to 8,000m each session. Stroke rate is anywhere between 23 and 26 and an average wattage of 57/60 from the PM5.

No matter what I do I cant seem to get faster or produce more watts.

For example I row at around 3:00/500m for 23 strokes and 57 watts at a Zone 2 max level of 109HR. Flat out I am 135/500m for like 20 seconds but I am like 32 strokes and 328 watts with a 147HR.

No matter how I row, if i row at 16 strokes I blow through a 109HR level 2 heart rate max. My only way to stay under 109 is to have more strokes and much less watts on the machine.

So how do I get more power in my stroke so I go further without blowing my HR out of Zone?

Whether I was just kidding myself I don't know. I'd have thought after 4 months I would have been starting to improve but no. I just seem stuck at the same place.

This weeks training looks like this.
Monday Zone 1 5 minutes, Zone 2 30 minutes Zone 1 5 minutes.
Tuesday Zone 1 5 minutes Zone 2 35 minutes Zone 1 5 minutes
Wednesday Zone 1 5 minutes Zone 2 11 minutes then 5 x Z4 4 minutes/Zone 1 3 minutes, zone 1 5 minutes.
Thursday zone 1 5 minutes zone 2 40 minutes Zone 1 5 minutes
Friday Zone 1 5 minutes Zone 2 35 minutes Zone 3 12 minutes
Saturday Zone 1 5 minutes Zone 2 11 minutes 8 x Z5 30 seconds/Zone 1 90 seconds Zone 1 5 minutes.
Sunday rest.

Garmin and Polar using Hr Zones as :-
78-93 Zone 1/94-109 Zone 2/110-125 Zone 3/126 -140 Zone 4/140 + max

What can I do to change this or am I just stuck with what I have?

Any help/advice appreciated.
Cheers.

[PleaseLockIn]

1:35 for 20 seconds isn’t too bad, shows you have some power. My LP was 1:33 in March. I assumed you managed 1:35 at r32 better than me. I held 1:40-ish at r33 for around a minute last time I tested in March.

How did you calculate zone 2? These HR zones are often not appropriate for rowing as rowing is much more full body and CV demanding. I use HRR for UT2 and use a cap of 70% HRR. For me this is 160. This is about the top of Z3. I can sustain this day in and day out even with full time job, hobbies and research in undergrad trying for a PhD.

What are your PBs in different distances?

Have you ever done a max HR test or gone absolute flat out on intervals until you physically can’t take it anymore and I mean it? Gone on rowing races? If not 147 is probably not accurate.

I merely reached 190 in 1 minute 1:40-ish. I have seen low 200s in training sub-max but very hard. My MHR is around 205. Maybe 210+ if I can get myself in a severely stressed state and collapse after a race.

UT2 is usually 1 hour or more for volume. You should extend your Z2 to 60+ minutes. Maybe 120 without a break, work up to that if possible.

6000-8000m is frankly short for Z2 and would be better as UT1. Even 1h can still be UT1 and sustainable IF your recovery is strong.

Perhaps you should do more proper intervals to boost up the strength ceiling. 8*500m 2R, 5*1500m 3R, perhaps 10*3min 1R at rate 2 (I tried this, it’s hard)

Perhaps you may be strength endurance limited? What is your lift PRs? Any strength programs?

I would suggest 1 hard day, 1 grey zone (UT1), 4 steady state (UT2) but that’s just me. Separate them.

For me, nose breathing seems to lower HR. You may try nasal expanders. Nose breathing exercises also seem to help.

Post a video of your technique - you may be unnecessarily tiring yourself.

Progressive overload. Push harder. Perhaps mobility work and scapula strengthening to increase effective stroke length.

Set an ambitious but achievable goal. What do you want?

You CAN lower the splits! It will take time, but slowly but surely you WILL see gains! Good luck!

[old wobbler]

1:35 for 20 seconds isn’t too bad, shows you have some power. My LP was 1:33 in March. I assumed you managed 1:35 at r32 better than me. I held 1:40-ish at r33 for around a minute last time I tested in March.

1:35/500 for 20 seconds and I blow up. I can hold 1:47/500 for a full minute and not blow. Never been fully tested by a rowing coach.

How did you calculate zone 2? These HR zones are often not appropriate for rowing as rowing is much more full body and CV demanding. I use HRR for UT2 and use a cap of 70% HRR. For me this is 160. This is about the top of Z3. I can sustain this day in and day out even with full time job, hobbies and research in undergrad trying for a PhD.

The Polar OH1+ and Garmin gave them to me. So far I max out at 147 at any exercise I do.

What are your PBs in different distances?

Not done any.

Have you ever done a max HR test or gone absolute flat out on intervals until you physically can’t take it anymore and I mean it? Gone on rowing races? If not 147 is probably not accurate.

NO.
I have recently done some Zone 5 for 1 minute intervals. Start at around 1:40/500 and slow to 2:00/500 after 8 of them. I've never been able to push myself to absolute physical cant take it anymore. Even time trialling I had stuff left in the tank after 10 miles. No, not done any rowing races.

Perhaps you may be strength endurance limited? What is your lift PRs? Any strength programs?

No. None done at present.

Set an ambitious but achievable goal. What do you want?

I used to row 2:10/500 for an hour when I was 30 without breaking sweat. We used to do a 2,500m challenge at the gym. I could never break 10 minutes for that row. I am rowing to lose weight, building my knee muscles up to try and help not having knee replacements or be fit enough to have knee replacement.

I was expecting to be able to grow into rowing at say 23 strokes and say 100 watts and not blow my 109 heart rate.

If I drop to say 16 strokes my row length is 9 meters. At 23 strokes I am about 6 meters.

Sounds daft I can row at 2:20/500 now for over 30 minutes yet the technology says I am on edge of Zone 4 into Zone 5.

I had expected the OH1+ with my Pm5 to alter the zones after 4 months. Same with the Garmin but they havent moved. I will say I am way fitter now than I was back in February 2025. I just want to get better. I am not in it for being the fastest. Like with time trialling there must be a rowing standard to aim for. At 53 time trialing standard for a 53 year od was 26:32 for 10 miles. That was your target. Is there not one for rowing?

[iain]

Have you ever done a max HR test or gone absolute flat out on intervals until you physically can’t take it anymore and I mean it? Gone on rowing races? If not 147 is probably not accurate.

I'd agree with this. 220-age tends to underestimate for older and trained people, but there is such a large variation that for a majority of people it isn't helpful for setting exercise bands. In addition the %ages vary between people with some people being in zone 3 at 70% HRMax when untrained while others are 90%+ and still in Zone 2. No experience with Garmin, but Polar Beat defaults to 220-Age unless you override it, so may not be anything like your real zones.

UT2 is usually 1 hour or more for volume. You should extend your Z2 to 60+ minutes. Maybe 120 without a break, work up to that if possible. 6000-8000m is frankly short for Z2 and would be better as UT1. Even 1h can still be UT1 and sustainable IF your recovery is strong.

We all need to work up to these kind of distances. 10-15min of work will lead to gains for the least fit! Yes an hour in Zone 3 is sustainable for regular rowers who have developed their fitness, but few of your age would expect to fully recover from it in 24hrs. Personally I would caution you on increasing the distance by more than 10% a week or so.

Perhaps you should do more proper intervals to boost up the strength ceiling. 8*500m 2R, 5*1500m 3R, perhaps 10*3min 1R at rate 2 (I tried this, it’s hard)

The best program is one you enjoy, so if you do not like intervals, save them until you get the urge to push on.

I suspect that there are technique errors in your slower rowing. If you can produce over 12WMin at R32 even for 20S, producing less than 2.5WMin at R23-6 is a whole different stroke. Some good rowers increase the work per stroke with the rating, but not to that extent. Rowing is about a hard drive followed by a slow recovery. At 26 strokes per minute you are probably using as much energy recovering to the catch (ie not recorded by the monitor) as you are putting into the drive that is being measured. Either you are leaking a lot of power or you are simply not pushing hard enough. Many people struggle to row properly at low HR, rowing is hard. I would suggest that rowing in intervals to allow your HR to recover may be one possibility if you are worried how high your HR is going, but first I would see how high it goes on a moderately hard row which may demonstrate that the assumed maximum is way off.

From your response, it seems like you are being held back by what may well be a spurious HRMax. A hard 30min will take you up to Zone 4/5. The Polar O/H may not read accurately. It seems to vary between people. I get sensible results, but greater fat/hair may effect its accuracy. You might like to try a chest belt as these are more universally accurate. Also I don't know how Garmin records the pulse if it is >max, it might be applying a cut off! Try Polar Beat as mine happily recorded 108% of the maximum it assumed for me!

Let us know how you get on.

[twcronin]

Have you tried the reverse pick drill or pick drill to break down your stroke and see where your power is coming from? What power/pace can you sustainably row with legs or legs/hip swing only? And what can you do in a sustained pick drill for different parts of the stroke -- i.e., arms-only, hip swing plus arms, half slide plus hips and arms, etc? (your force curve might also coach you on where your power is coming from for a full stroke...)

I am a complete novice but based on your numbers and your mentioning of a knee issue I would suspect you may be relying far too much on arms and not really engaging your biggest muscle groups that can produce the most sustained power. Also, at your weight and a higher stroke rate of 23+, you are wasting a lot of energy moving yourself back and forth on the slide without putting power into the boat. What is your power at a stroke rate of 16 when you can't keep in Z2?

FWIW, 57W is pushing about a third of your bodyweight about 0.5 meters once every 3 seconds. Your rate is fine, but some combination of your force and drive length (distance over which you exert force while pushing) is much lower than it should be.

[old wobbler]

Have you tried the reverse pick drill or pick drill to break down your stroke and see where your power is coming from?

Whats this? No idea what you are talking about.

[old wobbler]

I suspect that there are technique errors in your slower rowing.

I dont think you are wrong. I know at low HR using technology I am having to be very careful how much I pull.

If I am rowing Zone 1 (3:30/500 @ 23 strokes) I am at like 25 watts. I don't even reach my belly!! I am touching the edge of my shorts mid way up my thighs. I would also agree I probably use too much of my arms and back than my legs with the knee injury. With such long arms I dont lock out my knees before I am pulling with my arms. Usually I have my arms slightly bent at the elbows than dead straight. Also I seem to be as fast back as I am pulling so not really resting on the recovery side of the stroke.

[twcronin]

Have you tried the reverse pick drill or pick drill to break down your stroke and see where your power is coming from?

Whats this? No idea what you are talking about.

They are stroke mechanics isolation drills. Switch the PM to show power and your force curve as you're doing them if you want to get a sense of where you can generate power from. You can stay in each phase of the drill for as long as you want.

Pick drill:
0) start at the end of the pull, legs fully outstretched, torso lying back
1) Pull and recover just with arms
2) Add in hip swing to the stroke (legs still straight, not doing anything)
3) Add in 1/2 push with legs to the stroke
4) Add in the full push with legs (full strokes)

Reverse pick drill:
0) start at the catch, torso bent forward, legs maximally flexed, loose but firm grip, lats and core engaged, arms straight and hanging from bar
1) drive back and recover just with legs (no hip swing, no arm pull, arms *just hang*)
2) add in the hip swing to the stroke
3) add in the arm pull (full strokes)

As I said, total novice here, have rowed less than 20 times in my life (albeit lots of athletic background). I did a drill like this one of my first rows after getting an erg and saw: ~110 W from leg push only at rate ~20 (HR ~130); ~60 W from hip swing only at rate ~25 (HR ~110); ~60 W from arm pull only at rate ~25 (HR ~110). Which suggests my power breakdown for a full-power stroke at rate 20 (~200-210 W, HR ~160, threshold effort) is roughly half legs, a quarter each hip swing and arm pull. Your mileage will differ, but a useful feature of isolating parts of the stroke is that you'll be able to keep your heart rate down even while you're exerting more force and working on part of a more powerful stroke.

[MPx]

I'm with Iain on his analysis and suspect the majority of the issue is simply trying to keep your HR in a zone that's not realistic if properly exercising. Why "Zone 2" - and indeed what does Zone 2 mean to you? If its the Ergdata Zone 2, I can't do much more than strap in before its pushing Zone 2 let alone start to erg. As we all know, HR training is a little bit of guesswork based on estimates so not pure science. Nevertheless keeping a nod to it, does help construct proper training plans that allow adequate recovery. I'm a bit older ... and based on an observed 170 MHR and RHR of 40 (nowhere near the formulae), I calculate using the Heart Rate Reserve technique and have a UT2 cap of 130 and a UT1 cap of 144. My 8k @ 20 piece last night after a Dumbbells session had an average pace of 2:04.5. In Ergdata this is recorded as 0% Zone 1; 1% Zone 2; 35% Zone 3; 62% Zone 4. In fact my HR did drift up to 147 at about the 7k mark - but it was very hot - usually stays below 144. I too erg every day and have no trouble recovering from sessions like that. My two harder sessions each week do take more recovery....but I can still do a slower SS piece the next day below my UT1 cap.

So point one - don't be shy of training at a higher HR!

Second point is Power. I'm not familiar with watts as I've always trained on pace (Obvs I know its just an arithmetic conversion). But I simply don't understand how a reasonably big bloke can only pull a 3:00 pace. I am a couple of inches taller, but probably with shorter arms. I find 2:30 artficially slow and much slower than my post session cool down. So there's got to be some serious leakage of power somewhere. If your legs can support 107kg and move you about, they can push you to a much stronger stroke than 3:00. Working on form with a strong leg push sounds like it will reap big benefits.

Just to offset any unintended negativity in that.... Well done for starting and getting this far. Whatever you do keep it going - any sort of exercise is way better than none and the erg is very fair (if a little cruel). If you put in the work, it will reward with results. Best of luck.

[p_b82]

Going to just pick up your comment about bent arms and knees.

You're better doing "half slide" EG not going as far forward at the catch and driving out with less stress on the knees that way. you can rate up a lot at half slide to make up for the shorter stroke length - I've played around and got myself up to r50 at half slide

but sub 10m at r16 is a very very short stroke distance for a 6'4 "wingspan" - because that includes the "running" distance between strokes.

anytime you do any work on the erg with bent arms, you're leaking power / putting stress on the arms/shoulders unnecessarily - which may blow the Hr up as you're doing more of the work with the "wrong" muscles maybe.

One thing you might also not be doing is engaging your core / making use of your back with the hip hinge - if you're not getting a good engagement at the drive, that would be my suspicion - you're "shooting the slide" and then the only power part of the stroke is the arms.

one of the you-tube rowers did a video on the hip-hinge from knees at 1/4 slide position only and still hit 200w with just his back - straight arms only no slide movement with the legs - not saying that's a thing for you to aspire to, but more to highlight even with limited leg mobility one can generate a lot of power with the right technique not using arms or legs.

[old wobbler]

They are stroke mechanics isolation drills. Switch the PM to show power and your force curve as you're doing them if you want to get a sense of where you can generate power from.

Just tried it. No matter how I rowed its like a flat pancake. A "D" but on its flat edge if that makes sense.

[Tsnor]

If your Garmin measured max HR is 147 then your max HR is 147. Garmin keeps track and updates your max HR any time it sees a higher number.

ZONE 2 should feel very slow. You can comfortably go much faster. You workout 6 days a week. It's very reasonable to keep 3 of those sessions below HR = 70% of 147 = 103. It will feel VERY easy. For reference, British Racing had one of their Olympians capable of a sub 6 minute 2K doing zone 2 at a 2:15 pace. There are other reasonable training approaches that would have you working harder than zone 2. It's your choice. Given you workout 6 days/week zone 2 training might be good for you, but if you want immediate results then you sould blow past zone 2 on the other 3 days/week.

Cross checking your zone 2 heart rate: Get into a nice 20 stokes/minute rhythm with a slow split. Stay at this rate for 10 minutes then recite a poem you know or say five or more sentences. If you can do that without running out of breath you are still in zone 2, remember your HR. Increase your split slightly, wait another few minutes, try the poem/sentences again. When you hit breathing problems you have left zone 2. Use the last HR that was still in zone 2 as your highest zone 2 HR. If it's much different than 70% of 147 = 103 then something is wrong.

Low stroke rates defeat zone HR based training. The goal of zone 2 training is to do extra training load without requiring recovery time. HR training zones use your HR as a surrogate for how much muscle damage you are causing with your workout. At low enough stroke rates your heart is not a good measure of how hard you are working so you can work hard enough to need muscle recovery.

For technique suggest you modify the stroke you are using to match this video. Even with long arms your knees should be almost flat before you enter hip swing... and arms should be straight long after knees are flat both of the drive and the recovery. Good form will reduce injuries and make you faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ82RYIFLN8

[Ombrax]

I am rowing to lose weight, building my knee muscles up to try and help not having knee replacements or be fit enough to have knee replacement.

You probably already know this, but I"ll repeat it just the same: I've found that the simplest way to lose weight is to not take in as many calories - eating something then working hard on the erg to burn it off is much harder, mostly because unless we're talking about running, the human body is really efficient at exercising while not burning too many calories. In my case, going to be slightly hungry is the way to go. Takes a while, but it works.

For your other fitness goals, the rower is a great tool.

Good Luck

[jamesg]

No matter what I do I cant seem to get faster or produce more watts.

Power is the algebraic product of stroke length, pull force and rating. So do what you can, but keep it short. Long work is for warming up, not for producing Power: better use the C2 wods.

Some of your notes are scary: 107kg on 5'10 (178cm) height gives BMI 33. What's your doc's say? Cholesterol? I've had surgeons working on me three time now thanks to that stuff.

[Ombrax]

In my case, going to bed slightly hungry is the way to go. Takes a while, but it works.

Fixed a typo.