Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[reuben]

Given the various interruptions in my training lately and the fact that I am currently still struggling to schedule regular training sessions, I allowed myself to be guided mainly by feeling and heart rate, rather than previous performances, with the ambition to especially not go too fast during the steady states.

We are on the same boat. Due to work and other activities but also added tiredness, it has been difficult to schedule properly. I will basically fit Week 19 to Week 21 in literally 4 weeks, now that I can focus more on traning.

That makes three of us, and I'm retired!

The only erging I did in Week 20 was the 12k, as life had other plans for me. So I rowed the other two Week 20 core sessions in Week 21, so that I wouldn't "lose" a week, and have to repeat anything.

Week 20

12k - To paraphrase Pete, "You've never rowed this far in your life." And since this is rowing of a sort, I looked at some old seafaring maps, and sure enough, at the 12k mark, where the seas cascade off the edge of the earth, they all said "Here Be Dragons".

I started about 3s/500 slower than normal in the first 1-2k (Pete suggested 5s), then sped up above target rate in the second 2k, which brought my average pace to my target, and what I consider to be my average 10k pace. I concentrated on just keeping this pace until 1k to go, when I gave it a little juice. Overall, it was my 3rd fastest session at 10k or above. Some days are unexpectedly good.

Week 21

First, I had to complete the the last two Week 20 core sessions.

5x1500 3r - This was evenly paced the same as previous similar sessions, with a heart rate nearing max at the end like the previous sessions. Tough but good.

30min - Like some of my intervals, I can look back and see a sharp acceleration at the end of recent 30min sessions, indicating that I rowed way too slow for a considerable chunk of the session. So this time I started 2s faster than the last 30min, sped up another 1s after 10min, and then held that pace to the end without too much trouble, even speeding up a bit in the last minute. My average pace was 4s faster than the last two 30min sessions, and will be my new base pace. I later noticed that I did this at almost exactly the same pace as a 2x15min 2r session earlier this month.

10k - Pete's commentary suggests negatively splitting this piece, creating a sort of barbell session, which I did. I'm not clear on the value of this for a SS session, since it's not SS anymore, but he knows a lot more than I, so I did it. In the end I posted my third fastest session of 10k or more. The two sessions with faster paces were 10.5 and 11k, and today's 10k pace was a tie with my recent 12k.

4x1k 3r - I really didn't know how to pace this. Pete suggested looking at the most recent 4x1k and 8x500. Well, my last 4x1k 3r was almost 2 months ago, and that 2:16 seems to be way too slow now. On the other hand, my recent 8x500 2r was 2:07, which didn't sound viable. I looked at some other similar and recent sessions but didn't have any flashes of insight. So I decided to start with something close to 2:07, and then see how I felt after the first two reps, keeping an eye on both my max heart rate during each rep and how much it came down between reps, hoping that the 3r would help. My back was sore which I initially put down to 4 consecutive days of rowing, which I'm not used to, but then I realized it probably had to do with wrestling the tiller in the veggie garden.

Started the first rep too fast, and slowed down twice by about the halfway point, after feeling that 2:09 might be about right. All 4 reps got pretty darn hard with about 400m to go. The first three went OK, but then I just couldn't quite hold it on the last rep.

I averaged 2:09, but you can see that I definitely fell off at the end of the last rep. If I had focused more on the PM5/ergData I could have held it a bit better, but I let my mind drift, and when that happens the body drifts with it. Still, I'm happy with the result, and 2:09-2:10 is my new benchmark for something like this. And I felt pretty comfortable at 27-28spm, which definitely wasn't the case a few months ago. I also saw 168 on the PM5 a few times, so I guess my periodically revised max HR isn't 165 anymore. Whatever the true number is, I was definitely bumping up against it in the last two reps.

Code: Select all

Time 	Meters 	Pace 	Watts 	Cal/Hr 	S/M 	
17:12.6 4,000 	2:09.0 	163 	860 	27 	163
4:17.4 	1,000 	2:08.7 	164 	865 	27 	157
4:18.1 	1,000 	2:09.0 	163 	860 	26 	163
4:17.8 	1,000 	2:08.9 	163 	862 	27 	166
4:19.4 	1,000 	2:09.7 	160 	852 	28 	167

4x8min 2r - I felt tired, with little energy, so decided to take it relatively easy, and watch my heart rate and recovery between intervals. They looked OK, so I guess it was more muscular fatigue. I paced it ever so slightly faster than the last time I did this or something like it, to account for the fatigue and just get the session done.

[reuben]

As sessions get harder and volumes higher, it is definitely more challenging to achieve better / improve. Surely a mix of lack of recovery and too much training volume + newbie gains 'over' and plateauing. I guess I am in this phase and I need to find something new: adapt the plan ? what changes do I need to implement or do I wait to complete as it is and then move to an 'adapted' classic Peter Plan (i need my 2k time at 7:20 for 2025).

Well, if you need your 2k to be 7:20 or faster, then pick a 2k plan. I think that the "main" Pete Plan is oriented to 2k, as is the Beginner PP. Other 2k plans abound.

Don't forget rest and nutrition.

Good luck, whatever way you go.

[PleaseLockIn]

Week 11 Day 3 but extended to 10550m

In order to keep my HR below 160, I had to slow to 2:27.7 r19 avg from 2:27.2 average. It seems the upper limit of my UT2 when recovering from hard workouts and suffering from humidity. At least I feel much better, no lactic acid feeling in my legs (at 2:24.9 r20 I felt a little lactic). Feeling much better. My UT2 is barely above 2:28 while I am perhaps capable of sub 8 2k at r20. Doesn’t make any sense. 2k+28 pace UT2.

Too preliminary but sometimes slowing down the SS pace in exchange for volume works. Maybe I should extend the SS beyond BPP. But will not try to increase SS as I need to acclimatise to the heat. That will both increase HR and lactic acid.

For those who are plateauing here - eh, it’s already May. Depending on the climate, it might be relatively higher temperatures slowing you down.

[Joris]

* Week 22.3 [30 min]:
Normally I do my steady states in UT1, but since I wasn't feeling recovered from a (too) long running session of 14k the day before, it felt like a good moment to test my UT2 pace, capping my heart rate at 124.

Result: a split of 2:38, with an average heart rate of 121

* Week 22.1 [12k]
After a recovery day, I decided to do the same test as above but for a longer distance and after being better recovered.
Result: a split of 2:33 with an average heart rate of 120.

I'm not sure yet how I will approach the next steady state sessions, but at least this experiment offers me some interesting new insights and a new UT2 benchmark.

My UT2 is barely above 2:28 while I am perhaps capable of sub 8 2k at r20. Doesn’t make any sense. 2k+28 pace UT2.

I think I should also be able to do a sub 8 2k, bus as you can see, my gap with UT2 seems to be even 5 to 10 seconds wider than yours.

Don't forget rest and nutrition.

Until now I didn't pay much attention to nutrition, other than trying to eat enough before and after a session.
But after my progress stalled and after talking about it with friends who are more knowledgeable about nutrition and/or endurance sports, I decided to start taking some extra protein. Partly because I eat very little meat it was considerd likely by them that I was running low on this.

[Dangerscouse]

Until now, I didn't pay much attention to nutrition, other than trying to eat enough before and after a session.
But after my progress stalled and after talking about it with friends who are more knowledgeable about nutrition and/or endurance sports, I decided to start taking some extra protein. Partly because I eat very little meat, it was considered likely by them that I was running low on this.

Creatine might also be worth consuming. Try to eat protein from pure food rather than a shake, but I'd agree that too little protein will be an issue. It's also worthwhile noting that not all protein sources are as good as others due to some being complete and others non-complete.

[reuben]

Try to eat protein from pure food rather than a shake, but I'd agree that too little protein will be an issue. It's also worthwhile noting that not all protein sources are as good as others due to some being complete and others non-complete.

I've forgotten most of what I knew, but protein isn't alone. Iron is available from multiple sources, and there are different forms of iron, some of which are better absorbed in combination with other foods, or poorly absorbed in combination with others.

If you're not a nutritionist it's potentially a very deep rabbit hole. Just one or two levels should be sufficient, and hopefully Joris' friends can help without pulling him too deep.

[Dangerscouse]

If you're not a nutritionist it's potentially a very deep rabbit hole. Just one or two levels should be sufficient, and hopefully Joris' friends can help without pulling him too deep.

Yep, the best advice I'd give is to keep it fairly simple and as varied as possible. I don't overthink it, but I do make sure to have a good amount of protein with every meal, which isn't hard, as I'm not in the slightest bit fussy and I've got a voracious appetite.

[DJ1972]

You need to change your perspective slightly. Don't be looking to achieve better / improve all of the time, but be more discerning of when you attack and happy with the mundane sessions when you need them.

Imo, you've reached a great level, you've now got to a point where any progress is due to harder work and should be a lot more satisfying when it happens.

Also, don't lose sight of how your perception of hard work can very slowly and imperceptibly change. I still have issues with it, as easy work is hard to frame consistently. Even my easy days are very rarely really easy, as rowing is hard, and should be, as if it doesn't challenge, it doesn't change you.

Subject to how you can recover properly, I'd possibly look to move onto the standard Pete Plan and/or maybe increase the distance, but lower the pace.

You need to change your perspective slightly. Don't be looking to achieve better / improve all of the time, but be more discerning of when you attack and happy with the mundane sessions when you need them.

Imo, you've reached a great level, you've now got to a point where any progress is due to harder work and should be a lot more satisfying when it happens.

I think this is so often overlooked/neglected in ones outlook. I was guilty of losing sight of the bigger picture last year. Being new to erg'ing and the immediate gains that came with just turning up, my enthusiasm was naturally through the roof. I had a set back due to a pre planned hernia op but once the fitness (quickly) returned and I PB'd my pre hernia 2k, I was in a good place. Like everyone though, other aspects of my life got in the way and rowing was on the back burner for a while. I wasn't content with sessions being mundane, I wanted to continue to PB every session. I now recognise that progression isn't linear. I've been in and around endurance sport long enough to know this, but still need the occasional rude reminder. Ride the wave when you can, don't be afraid for things to be a little ordinary for a while.

Absolutely give the Pete Plan lunch hour a few cycles through, don't be afraid to extend it to ten days as the repetitive nature of the hard days can catch up with you (at least in my experience).

Yes, I fully agree with your comments, particularly at a point where work load in the plan is heavier and my life got busier simultaneously. I did not expect a linear progress but failing to complete one session makes you wonder why.
When I mentioned a change of plan, I probably meant to adjust the plan and I did apply some adjustments via the DF factor.

As I had mentioned, I dropped my DF from 115 to 105

Added session to Week 20 and steady state felt a lot better. HR was down overall. In fact, this is quite an improvement.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
32:22.0	7,036	2:18.0	133	758	19	133
5:00.0	1,089	2:17.7	134	760	21	130
10:00.0	1,094	2:17.1	136	767	19	133
15:00.0	1,087	2:17.9	133	758	19	133
20:00.0	1,085	2:18.2	132	755	19	134
25:00.0	1,085	2:18.2	132	755	19	135
30:00.0	1,085	2:18.2	132	755	19	135
32:22.0	511	2:18.9	130	749	19	135

Week 20: 5x1500m/3min: managed 1min57.9 with same DF at 105

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
29:28.6	7,500	1:57.9	214	1034	26	163
5:54.0	1,500	1:58.0	213	1033	26	157
r: 3:00	19						
5:54.2	1,500	1:58.0	213	1031	26	163
r: 3:00	21						
5:53.9	1,500	1:57.9	213	1033	26	165
r: 3:00	21						
5:54.0	1,500	1:58.0	213	1033	27	165
r: 3:00	18						
5:52.5	1,500	1:57.5	216	1042	28	167
r79	

Week 20: 8x500m/2min - with same DF at 105. If I am correct and I remember my physics Work = Force*distance. I do not have strength (and muscles) to increase the Watts, so Force is constant and distance had to increase through SPM. I have to work more in AT and TR zones. Speed endurance sessions probably helped a lot. At DF 115, I got stuck at the catch towards the end of each interval (5th to 8th) whereas as 105, I don't have the same issue
Target was anything below 1min49.4

Code: Select all

14:31.3	4,000	1:48.9	271	1232	29	162
1:49.2	500	1:49.2	269	1225	28	154
r: 2:00	20						
1:49.0	500	1:49.0	270	1230	29	157
r: 2:00	18						
1:49.1	500	1:49.1	270	1227	29	161
r: 2:00	19						
1:49.2	500	1:49.2	269	1225	29	162
r: 2:00	19						
1:49.1	500	1:49.1	270	1227	30	163
r: 2:00	18						
1:49.1	500	1:49.1	270	1227	30	166
r: 2:00	17						
1:49.2	500	1:49.2	269	1225	31	166
r: 2:00	18						
1:47.4	500	1:47.4	283	1272	31	169
r129	

Still 4 weeks before completing the plan, with the same DF.

[Joris]

If you're not a nutritionist it's potentially a very deep rabbit hole. Just one or two levels should be sufficient, and hopefully Joris' friends can help without pulling him too deep.

Yep, the best advice I'd give is to keep it fairly simple and as varied as possible. I don't overthink it, but I do make sure to have a good amount of protein with every meal, which isn't hard, as I'm not in the slightest bit fussy and I've got a voracious appetite.

Yes I'm aware of the rabbit holes and that pure food in a balanced and varied way is best.
I grew up in a family where great importance was placed on healthy and varied eating, and as a parent, I now try to do the same for my children.
But as cited, after evaluation, my current eating habits probably don't contain enough protein to compensate for the absence of meat and fish, at least not in combination with the extra endurance sports I've started.
Initially, I am going to add some protein powder through my breakfast or through a shake. But in time, I might replace or decrease that supplement by adding more protein via 'real' foods (skyr, tempeh, lentils, almonds, etc.).
The people I talked to about it have the same views, so I don't worry about them dragging me too deeply into so-called magic formulas.

[alex9026]

Yes I'm aware of the rabbit holes and that pure food in a balanced and varied way is best.
I grew up in a family where great importance was placed on healthy and varied eating, and as a parent, I now try to do the same for my children.
But as cited, after evaluation, my current eating habits probably don't contain enough protein to compensate for the absence of meat and fish, at least not in combination with the extra endurance sports I've started.
Initially, I am going to add some protein powder through my breakfast or through a shake. But in time, I might replace or decrease that supplement by adding more protein via 'real' foods (skyr, tempeh, lentils, almonds, etc.).
The people I talked to about it have the same views, so I don't worry about them dragging me too deeply into so-called magic formulas.

Do you eat eggs? I don't want to make any presumptions on your dietary approach, on the basis you'd consider skyr... But if you do, for the cost of a good quality whey protein supplement these days, I'd do my best to use it as a very last resort. So many now are filled with so many other additives, I'd wager it's probably not going meet the demands you feel you need at present. 3-4 whole eggs, 300g of cottage cheese or Skyr will pack circa 30g of protein and eggs especially, a dose of extra nutritional punch. All for the fraction of the price and still convenient (I hard boil a dozen at a time).

Regarding almonds, they're considered more of a fat source than protein, so if you are mindful of any calorie/weight control, I'd look at other sources (not saying don't eat them, just you'd need to eat a heck of a lot for x amount of protein).

[Joris]

Yes I'm aware of the rabbit holes and that pure food in a balanced and varied way is best.
I grew up in a family where great importance was placed on healthy and varied eating, and as a parent, I now try to do the same for my children.
But as cited, after evaluation, my current eating habits probably don't contain enough protein to compensate for the absence of meat and fish, at least not in combination with the extra endurance sports I've started.
Initially, I am going to add some protein powder through my breakfast or through a shake. But in time, I might replace or decrease that supplement by adding more protein via 'real' foods (skyr, tempeh, lentils, almonds, etc.).
The people I talked to about it have the same views, so I don't worry about them dragging me too deeply into so-called magic formulas.

Do you eat eggs? I don't want to make any presumptions on your dietary approach, on the basis you'd consider skyr... But if you do, for the cost of a good quality whey protein supplement these days, I'd do my best to use it as a very last resort. So many now are filled with so many other additives, I'd wager it's probably not going meet the demands you feel you need at present. 3-4 whole eggs, 300g of cottage cheese or Skyr will pack circa 30g of protein and eggs especially, a dose of extra nutritional punch. All for the fraction of the price and still convenient (I hard boil a dozen at a time).

Regarding almonds, they're considered more of a fat source than protein, so if you are mindful of any calorie/weight control, I'd look at other sources (not saying don't eat them, just you'd need to eat a heck of a lot for x amount of protein).

Thanks for your feedback, but don't focus too much on the list I had written down because they were just a few alternatives I found through a simple internet search. Skyr I have even never eaten before. But as cited, I see it more as a next step to further figure out what are good alternatives to get some more protein and how to implement them into my daily eating habits.
That being said. Yes I eat eggs and I am also not a strict vegetarian so sometimes I even eat meat or fish, but I prefer not to increase the latter two.
On the other hand, with some extra protein supplements I can't do very much wrong for now as long as I pick one with not too many additives and as long as I don't mind paying a little more than is actually necessary to achieve this goal. At least that's how I see it.

Regarding your comment about almonds (and weight in general): based on my bmi, I lean close to underweight (18,5), and by exercising more, that boundary seems to get even a little closer, despite not setting myself any eating limits. In that sense, I have a somewhat atypical profile, as I would rather gain some extra pounds than lose some.

Anyways, I don't want to derail this topic too much so my next post will be about the BPP again.

[Joris]

3/3 - Week 18 Day 2 [4 x 2k]
The first three reps (at 2:07) went better than expected, allowing me to put another significant acceleration on the last rep, doing it at 2:02.23.
Against expectations therefore I achieved a new personal best, despite having the extra rep.
I guess sometimes the biggest jumps occur when you least expect them?

Anyway, all doubts are now gone to meet my target of under 2:00 for a single 2k at the end of the BBP. At least if nothing unexpected occurs.

Week 22 Day 2 [4 x 2k]:

I just looked back at my post from early March, because two months on (and 4 weeks further into the BBP plan), it appears that my performance was at its best back then.
Since then, due in part to less frequent and less regular workouts, my performances started to stagnate.
Of the three “day 2 interval workouts" I've done since then, I couldn't improve on any of them (once an equaling time, twice a slower time).
For yesterday's 4 x 2k session, I looked at the week 18 session: 3 x 2:07 + last rep at 2:02.
My ambition was to row 2:07 again for the first three reps and after that as fast as possible for the last rep.
So it happened, but for the last rep I could only take off a second, to 2:06 (and therefore, 4 seconds slower than in week 18).

What seemed a certainty in Week 18, namely a 2k under 8 minutes, seems a little less certain now.
But I try to look on the positive side and conclude that this goal is certainly not lost either. And besides, I will try not to put unnecessary pressure on myself and just try to get the best out of each individual session. At the end of the BBP plan, we'll see what it led to. In any case, the end of the plan is no more than an arbitrary limit, as I plan to continue training after it.

[reuben]

What seemed a certainty in Week 18, namely a 2k under 8 minutes, seems a little less certain now.
But I try to look on the positive side and conclude that this goal is certainly not lost either. And besides, I will try not to put unnecessary pressure on myself and just try to get the best out of each individual session. At the end of the BBP plan, we'll see what it led to. In any case, the end of the plan is no more than an arbitrary limit, as I plan to continue training after it.

I don't recall the history of how we adopted hours, minutes, and seconds as units of time, but while 8 minutes is a nice, round number (as are 7, and 10, and...), it's not all that important. If you're healthier, or even maintaining roughly the same level of health, that's the main thing, the inevitable toll of age aside. A few seconds in either direction is fine. At least, that's what I keep telling myself.

[DJ1972]

My ambition was to row 2:07 again for the first three reps and after that as fast as possible for the last rep.
So it happened, but for the last rep I could only take off a second, to 2:06 (and therefore, 4 seconds slower than in week 18).

What seemed a certainty in Week 18, namely a 2k under 8 minutes, seems a little less certain now.
But I try to look on the positive side and conclude that this goal is certainly not lost either. And besides, I will try not to put unnecessary pressure on myself and just try to get the best out of each individual session. At the end of the BBP plan, we'll see what it led to. In any case, the end of the plan is no more than an arbitrary limit, as I plan to continue training after it.

From my own experience, I had a similar patch. Reasons are different for anybody else. In hindsight, I weighed my previous progress, read advice of others on non-linear progress, kept doing some steady state sessions to maintain exercises whilst being busy elsewhere and restarted the plan by adjusting my Drag Factor. Lowering the Drag Factor to 105 resulted in a big drop in HR in SS session (21 spm)
I have no intention to absorb more proteins except the additional hard-boiled egg at breakfast (1 egg a day is ok for cholesterol), but I neither cannot count on muscles build-up (only a little) so I work now more on aerobic sessions at higher spm and I had new gains that way. Since August 24, I am at 1.13 million meters, so this has helped too.

Week 21.2 - rest is only 2 minutes (instead of 3) - target < 1min55.6 (with av. 26 spm) so gain >1s

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
15:16.3	4,000	1:54.5	233	1101	27	164
3:49.8	1,000	1:54.9	231	1094	26	158
r: 2:00	16						
3:49.7	1,000	1:54.8	231	1095	27	163
r: 2:00	15						
3:49.7	1,000	1:54.8	231	1095	27	166
r: 2:00	15						
3:47.1	1,000	1:53.5	239	1122	29	170
r46					

[Dangerscouse]

I have no intention to absorb more proteins except the additional hard-boiled egg at breakfast (1 egg a day is ok for cholesterol)

Don't be fooled into thinking that cholesterol is due to diet. Some people create their own cholesterol regardless of diet, and I always eat 20-25 eggs a week, every week, and my cholesterol has been tested about six months ago and was found to be excellent. This might be due to the amount of exercise I do, but it still highlights that eggs aren't a bad food

They estimate that only 20% of blood cholesterol is from food sources and the rest is made by your liver.