Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Dangerscouse]

In that vein -

Progress isn't linear, nor rapid, so you need to learn to love the process and not focus on progress. When you just enjoy doing what you're doing, you'll go much further than focusing on your progress at a granular level.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was a skinny young triathlete. When I had enough time to train, I noted that my progress often happened in discrete steps.

An example is that for months I would run a ~10k route at the same pace, notably struggling and slowing on some of the rolling hills. Then one day I would suddenly be running 5s/mile faster, and I was faster up the hills, and felt better doing so. And this improvement would remain - it wasn't just a one off good day. A few months later another discrete improvement might happen, and again, for no apparent reason. Something just clicked in my brain or body, and I made a jump. It certainly helped that I would sometimes run that route twice in a single day, but what's really important is that my improvements were discrete, not gradual or continuous (linear or otherwise).

It reminds me of my favourite James Clear quote:

“Complaining about not achieving success despite working hard is like complaining about an ice cube not melting when you heated it from twenty-five to thirty-one degrees. Your work was not wasted; it is just being stored. All the action happens at thirty-two degrees.” 

[PleaseLockIn]

In that vein -

Progress isn't linear, nor rapid, so you need to learn to love the process and not focus on progress. When you just enjoy doing what you're doing, you'll go much further than focusing on your progress at a granular level.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was a skinny young triathlete. When I had enough time to train, I noted that my progress often happened in discrete steps.

An example is that for months I would run a ~10k route at the same pace, notably struggling and slowing on some of the rolling hills. Then one day I would suddenly be running 5s/mile faster, and I was faster up the hills, and felt better doing so. And this improvement would remain - it wasn't just a one off good day. A few months later another discrete improvement might happen, and again, for no apparent reason. Something just clicked in my brain or body, and I made a jump. It certainly helped that I would sometimes run that route twice in a single day, but what's really important is that my improvements were discrete, not gradual or continuous (linear or otherwise).

It reminds me of my favourite James Clear quote:

“Complaining about not achieving success despite working hard is like complaining about an ice cube not melting when you heated it from twenty-five to thirty-one degrees. Your work was not wasted; it is just being stored. All the action happens at thirty-two degrees.” 

Agreed! I know at least I am putting in the work stored… though sometimes I feel as if it may be too long for the action to come… and I only have less than 5 months for that.

Leading me to more desperate measures like increasing the long distance steady even further than BPP states in an attempt to develop a base, changing the strength exercises with a different routine to try to break this plateau…

The issue is that even in the nighttime it’s already 27*C and even with a fan I still sweat quite a lot, even in SS. 80% relative humidity is definitely NOT helping. I feel as if the heat is significantly dragging my splits down. I wonder if you have any tips on erging in the heat (especially if even worse in Sep i need to hit 1:59 30r20 in the heat in blistering summer). I could try to use another fan to cool down but sometimes summers where I live has 90%+ relative humidity and 35-40C weather…

Or should I just erg indoors? Kinda overwhelmed by juggling training and studying harder, competing to stay ahead academically.

[Dangerscouse]

Leading me to more desperate measures like increasing the long distance steady even further than BPP states in an attempt to develop a base, changing the strength exercises with a different routine to try to break this plateau…

The issue is that even in the nighttime it’s already 27*C and even with a fan I still sweat quite a lot, even in SS. 80% relative humidity is definitely NOT helping. I feel as if the heat is significantly dragging my splits down. I wonder if you have any tips on erging in the heat (especially if even worse in Sep i need to hit 1:59 30r20 in the heat in blistering summer). I could try to use another fan to cool down but sometimes summers where I live has 90%+ relative humidity and 35-40C weather…

Or should I just erg indoors? Kinda overwhelmed by juggling training and studying harder, competing to stay ahead academically.

I'm not sure, but my instinct is to try to ignore the heat and humidity. Before I got dehum****ers (the word is picked up as spam), I was all too often rowing in 90+ humidity, sometimes 99%, so it isn't nice, but it is possible as long as you stay well hydrated.

Tolerance to heat is good training, but it will affect your HR, so just allow for that and keep an eye on recovery. You're young enough to cope with it (hopefully), and it does get more tolerable the more you do it. I've been doing dynamic pilates every week for 13 years in 35c heat, so I do know what it feels like.

If all things are equal, doing more distance is usually a good thing, so I don't think that's a desperate measure.

[reuben]

The issue is that even in the nighttime it’s already 27*C and even with a fan I still sweat quite a lot, even in SS. 80% relative humidity is definitely NOT helping. I feel as if the heat is significantly dragging my splits down. I wonder if you have any tips on erging in the heat (especially if even worse in Sep i need to hit 1:59 30r20 in the heat in blistering summer). I could try to use another fan to cool down but sometimes summers where I live has 90%+ relative humidity and 35-40C weather…

Or should I just erg indoors? Kinda overwhelmed by juggling training and studying harder, competing to stay ahead academically.

I have no tips regarding "erging in the heat", but acclimatization is real. If you row in it, your body (and hopefully mind) will become used to it.

Your goal is to make the team by breaking 1:59 for 30r20. I would suggest training in the same environment as the test, or at least not an easier environment. If the test is in a warm and humid environment, training in a cool and dry environment will only be to your detriment.

[Nomark]

I wonder if you have any tips on erging in the heat (especially if even worse in Sep i need to hit 1:59 30r20 in the heat in blistering summer). I could try to use another fan to cool down but sometimes summers where I live has 90%+ relative humidity and 35-40C weather…

I don't have any tips, but I agree with the previous comments. Train for your goal. Just like there have been comments about whether the BPP is the ideal plan for a 30r20 test, similarly what will the conditions be like for the test? An air conditioned gym or hot and humid? If it's the latter then you will just have to push through, accept your HR will be slightly higher than you might expect and use it as acclimatisation training!

[Nomark]

Week 15.1 10k. I decided to skip the optional interval training from last week and go ahead with the more useful SS workout.

Went pretty well although was "comfortably" hard. 10k feels like a long way again, but I'll get there. I pushed a bit at the end to beat 45 mins but the rest was natural SS, not really looking at the monitor too much, just smooth and relaxed or whatever the Pete mantra is. About a week and a half ago it took me almost 30 seconds longer, so the plan part 2 is definitely working.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
44:58.6 10,000 2:14.9 142 790 22
9:01.3 2,000 2:15.3 141 786 23
8:58.9 4,000 2:14.7 143 792 22
9:08.8 6,000 2:17.2 136 766 22
9:06.2 8,000 2:16.5 137 773 22
8:43.3 10,000 2:10.8 156 837 23

[Joris]

Given the various interruptions in my training lately and the fact that I am currently still struggling to schedule regular training sessions, I allowed myself to be guided mainly by feeling and heart rate, rather than previous performances, with the ambition to especially not go too fast during the steady states.

* Week 21.3 [4 x 8 min] (23/4): average split of 2:24 and average heart rate of 132
In week 17 I did the same session at 2:17, but with an averge heart rate above 140, comparisons are difficult.

* Week 21.4 [12k] (27/4): split of 2:27, with an avergage heart rate of 135.
During week 20 I did the 12k at 2:23, with an average heart rate of 142.

Let's see how times evolve during the next sessions. For now, with the ambition to not intensify the steady state sessions.

[DJ1972]

Given the various interruptions in my training lately and the fact that I am currently still struggling to schedule regular training sessions, I allowed myself to be guided mainly by feeling and heart rate, rather than previous performances, with the ambition to especially not go too fast during the steady states.

We are on the same boat. Due to work and other activities but also added tiredness, it has been difficult to schedule properly. I will basically fit Week 19 to Week 21 in literally 4 weeks, now that I can focus more on traning.

As sessions get harder and volumes higher, it is definitely more challenging to achieve better / improve. Surely a mix of lack of recovery and too much training volume + newbie gains 'over' and plateauing. I guess I am in this phase and I need to find something new: adapt the plan ? what changes do I need to implement or do I wait to complete as it is and then move to an 'adapted' classic Peter Plan (i need my 2k time at 7:20 for 2025).

Nonetheless, I managed the following, hinting that I would be more fitted to longer distances.

Week 19.2 - I had failed earlier and gave up at the 5th interval
Retried - target was 1:49.4 - horrible session but only failed by 0.1

Code: Select all

14:36.4	4,000	1:49.5	266	1216	28	162
1:49.0	500	1:49.0	270	1230	28	154
r: 2:00	21						
1:49.1	500	1:49.1	270	1227	29	158
r: 2:00	20						
1:49.2	500	1:49.2	269	1225	29	161
r: 2:00	20						
1:50.0	500	1:50.0	263	1205	29	162
r: 2:00	19						
1:49.6	500	1:49.6	266	1214	28	165
r: 2:00	16						
1:50.0	500	1:50.0	263	1205	28	166
r: 2:00	18						
1:50.5	500	1:50.5	259	1192	29	166
r: 2:00	21						
1:49.0	500	1:49.0	270	1230	30	168
r135					

Week 19.1 - managed PB on 10k

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
42:39.9	10,000	2:07.9	167	874	23	154
8:33.5	2,000	2:08.3	165	869	23	143
8:35.8	4,000	2:08.9	163	861	24	151
8:34.8	6,000	2:08.7	164	865	24	156
8:30.6	8,000	2:07.6	168	879	24	160
8:25.2	10,000	2:06.3	174	897	24	163

Week 19.3 - managed PB on distance

Code: Select all

30:00.0	7,335	2:02.6	189	952	24	157
6:00.0	1,469	2:02.5	190	954	24	150
12:00.0	1,465	2:02.8	189	949	23	155
18:00.0	1,465	2:02.8	189	949	24	160
24:00.0	1,459	2:03.3	186	941	24	159
30:00.0	1,478	2:01.7	194	966	25	165

[p_b82]

As sessions get harder and volumes higher, it is definitely more challenging to achieve better / improve. Surely a mix of lack of recovery and too much training volume + newbie gains 'over' and plateauing. I guess I am in this phase and I need to find something new: adapt the plan ? what changes do I need to implement or do I wait to complete as it is and then move to an 'adapted' classic Peter Plan (i need my 2k time at 7:20 for 2025).

Nonetheless, I managed the following, hinting that I would be more fitted to longer distances.

Week 19.1 - managed PB on 10k

Week 19.3 - managed PB on distance
<snip>

Re your next steps, I think it is entirely up to you - as you say you've taken a lot out the plan, and you've had your n00b gains at a nice accelerated rate, and now you're where your fitness is at & the hard graft comes in.
both the BPP and BP are 2k orientated - maybe could be worth a change in focus entirely for a reset, or another cycle of the the plan, but instead of 1s/5w gains, you're looking at 0.1s/1W gains

As a comment, your 30min is better than mine currently, but your 10k is slightly worse - which would say to me that your focus on the shorter stuff has made you better in that area. (I set my 10k 8 days after I completed a FM).

there's a balance of course, if you take your eye off the shorter stuff to improve the longer distances your body adapts and those shorter things get harder again and vice versa.

It really depends on what you enjoy and what will keep you coming back.

and congrats on both the PB's!

[PleaseLockIn]

Given the various interruptions in my training lately and the fact that I am currently still struggling to schedule regular training sessions, I allowed myself to be guided mainly by feeling and heart rate, rather than previous performances, with the ambition to especially not go too fast during the steady states.

* Week 21.3 [4 x 8 min] (23/4): average split of 2:24 and average heart rate of 132
In week 17 I did the same session at 2:17, but with an averge heart rate above 140, comparisons are difficult.

* Week 21.4 [12k] (27/4): split of 2:27, with an avergage heart rate of 135.
During week 20 I did the 12k at 2:23, with an average heart rate of 142.

Let's see how times evolve during the next sessions. For now, with the ambition to not intensify the steady state sessions.

We’re in the same boat. I have various exams and things to do too, making my recovery significantly harder. At this rate, I am considering lowering my SS to 2:27/2:28 r19 while increasing volume. Thus increasing the polarization of my training. Maybe that’s why I am barely improving…

In my experience for strength training I manage to fix weak spots by changing the exercises.

Maybe you could reduce the SS split even further and increase the distance? Then attempt to push near-max on 1 interval a week? Perhaps even reduce the SS HR so it never goes above UT2 and go more extreme on Seiler’s polarized training?

[DJ1972]

Re your next steps, I think it is entirely up to you - as you say you've taken a lot out the plan, and you've had your n00b gains at a nice accelerated rate, and now you're where your fitness is at & the hard graft comes in.
both the BPP and BP are 2k orientated - maybe could be worth a change in focus entirely for a reset, or another cycle of the the plan, but instead of 1s/5w gains, you're looking at 0.1s/1W gains

As a comment, your 30min is better than mine currently, but your 10k is slightly worse - which would say to me that your focus on the shorter stuff has made you better in that area. (I set my 10k 8 days after I completed a FM).

there's a balance of course, if you take your eye off the shorter stuff to improve the longer distances your body adapts and those shorter things get harder again and vice versa.

It really depends on what you enjoy and what will keep you coming back.

and congrats on both the PB's!

Most importantly, as you point it out at the end, is to really enjoy and keep coming back. PBs are always a plus for moral!
I guess I had a drop in fitness but also concentration lately. Indeed, for Week 19.2, I did 8x500m instead of a 5x800m. May be this benefited me last night. I felt better and session was hard but enjoyable.

Week 19.5

Code: Select all

31:38.2	8,000	1:58.6	210	1021	25	164
7:56.0	2,000	1:59.0	208	1014	22	160
r: 4:00	20						
7:55.3	2,000	1:58.8	209	1017	26	164
r: 4:00	20						
7:55.4	2,000	1:58.8	208	1017	26	167
r: 4:00	15						
7:51.5	2,000	1:57.8	214	1035	27	168
r55					

I played with the DF and dropped it to 105 from my usual 115 and I found a better rythm with SR26. It shows that I still have a lot to learn about my confort zone.

[Joris]

As sessions get harder and volumes higher, it is definitely more challenging to achieve better / improve. Surely a mix of lack of recovery and too much training volume + newbie gains 'over' and plateauing. I guess I am in this phase and I need to find something new: adapt the plan ? what changes do I need to implement or do I wait to complete as it is and then move to an 'adapted' classic Peter Plan (i need my 2k time at 7:20 for 2025).

Congratulations on the personal records! Such times are for me to dream about for now.

As for the new challenges, personally I definitely want to continue until I complete the full plan. Regardless of performance, I would consider it an accomplishment to have completed the full plan.

Nor do I think that another plan could break through the present difficulties? On the contrary, since this is a “beginner's plan” any other plans (such as the regular Pete Plan or the 5k Pete Plan) may be even tougher.
So rather than changing plans, I am trying to change my mind set. Accept that gains will be harder to achieve from now on and be content with every workout you do and every gain you can get, even if it is no longer gradual.
At the end of the plan, I am even considering redoing some weeks one or several times (e.g. restarting at week 20), if I feel my body is not yet ready for heavier training programs.
Finally, the plan remains a good mix of steady state and interval training.
What would be your incentive to change plans and what plan would you do?

We’re in the same boat. I have various exams and things to do too, making my recovery significantly harder. At this rate, I am considering lowering my SS to 2:27/2:28 r19 while increasing volume. Thus increasing the polarization of my training.

Indeed, I am also trying to focus on not doing the steady state sessions too intensely.
Until now, I liked focusing on split times because the newbie gains allowed me to systematically lower them (from 2:30 till 2:23) without feeling like the sessions were getting more intense. But recently it felt more like a burden to maintain or lower those split times.
So for now I've let go the split times during steady states and indeed am basing more on feel and maximum heart rate.


Week 21.5. [5 x 1.5k]

I hesitated between skipping this session or doing this session at steady state pace.
Since steady states of 4 x 8min are provided in the program, I judged that 5 x 1,5k isn't too much different and therefore probably not an inefficient workout either.

Result: split: 2:22 ; av HR: 130
For now, it feels good to continue with the plan this way. I just need to decide how I will tackle next week's interval sessions (4 x 2k and 5 x 800).
On to week 22 and only 3 weeks to go.

[Dangerscouse]

As sessions get harder and volumes higher, it is definitely more challenging to achieve better / improve. Surely a mix of lack of recovery and too much training volume + newbie gains 'over' and plateauing. I guess I am in this phase and I need to find something new: adapt the plan ? what changes do I need to implement or do I wait to complete as it is and then move to an 'adapted' classic Peter Plan (i need my 2k time at 7:20 for 2025).

Nonetheless, I managed the following, hinting that I would be more fitted to longer distances.

You need to change your perspective slightly. Don't be looking to achieve better / improve all of the time, but be more discerning of when you attack and happy with the mundane sessions when you need them.

Imo, you've reached a great level, you've now got to a point where any progress is due to harder work and should be a lot more satisfying when it happens.

Also, don't lose sight of how your perception of hard work can very slowly and imperceptibly change. I still have issues with it, as easy work is hard to frame consistently. Even my easy days are very rarely really easy, as rowing is hard, and should be, as if it doesn't challenge, it doesn't change you.

Subject to how you can recover properly, I'd possibly look to move onto the standard Pete Plan and/or maybe increase the distance, but lower the pace.

[alex9026]

You need to change your perspective slightly. Don't be looking to achieve better / improve all of the time, but be more discerning of when you attack and happy with the mundane sessions when you need them.

Imo, you've reached a great level, you've now got to a point where any progress is due to harder work and should be a lot more satisfying when it happens.

I think this is so often overlooked/neglected in ones outlook. I was guilty of losing sight of the bigger picture last year. Being new to erg'ing and the immediate gains that came with just turning up, my enthusiasm was naturally through the roof. I had a set back due to a pre planned hernia op but once the fitness (quickly) returned and I PB'd my pre hernia 2k, I was in a good place. Like everyone though, other aspects of my life got in the way and rowing was on the back burner for a while. I wasn't content with sessions being mundane, I wanted to continue to PB every session. I now recognise that progression isn't linear. I've been in and around endurance sport long enough to know this, but still need the occasional rude reminder. Ride the wave when you can, don't be afraid for things to be a little ordinary for a while.

Absolutely give the Pete Plan lunch hour a few cycles through, don't be afraid to extend it to ten days as the repetitive nature of the hard days can catch up with you (at least in my experience).

[PleaseLockIn]

Taking a step back and seeing the whole picture is good advice! That’s why I cut down my SS to 2:27 (mine in Feb) and today did 8*500m 2R in BPP

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	HR
15:55.8	4,000	1:59.4	205	1006	20	188
1:59.9	500	1:59.9	203	998	21	180
1:59.8	500	1:59.8	204	1000	21	185
1:59.8	500	1:59.8	204	1000	21	184
1:59.4	500	1:59.4	206	1007	20	
1:59.7	500	1:59.7	204	1002	21	192
1:59.6	500	1:59.6	205	1004	20	192
1:59.7	500	1:59.7	204	1002	20	194
1:57.7	500	1:57.7	215	1038	20	195

Decent. If I push myself hard, I could hold a r20 2k at sub 8 pace. I now need to be able to extend this to 7550m in 4 months. My hip hinges work is helping me a lot.

Last session I extended to 75 min at 2:25. Big mistake. My HR got to low 160s by 35 min and at the end it was in the low 170s. Was more than “pleasantly tired”. 175 at UT1 is an absolute upper limit.

These days, I’ll slow to 2:27 r19 or 2:30 r18 while increasing distance. I find higher volume in steady state, then 1 very hard interval session better suits me.

Not exactly BPP, but whatever it takes! Next session extend to 50 min.

Week 12 - replace 10000m with 60min, replace the 3*10 with a 1/4 marathon. Interval remains the same.

This will keep ~ 80/20 and considering myself (UT2 ~ 2:27 r19 day to day, versus capable of ~2k 1:59-ish r20). This means my steady state is 2k@r20 + 27-28. This is crazy considering UT2 steady state is usually 2k + 20-25

DJ - congrats on the 1:49.4 8*500m 2R. Honestly, at this rate you probably have 7:19.x 2k on you. If not it should be achievable following the end of the plan. Even though my sprint was at r20, yours… the pure speed. You’re significantly faster than me and you know it.