Newbie looking for advise to increase pace

[Dimeech]

Hey guys, I have been hanging around the forums here for a few months.
Got a concept 2 rower in October of 2024 and fell in love with rowing.
My rowing form has been informed by RowAlong and Darkhorse Rowing (as well as other resources on YouTube).
My form, I believe, has been improving based off feeling less pain on lower back over time. However, I do realize that this is not the only indication of good form.
I generally do between 5-7k of rowing everyday (I use it as a way to destress). My usual pace ranges between 2:15 (on a good day) and then 2:22-25 (on a regular day).
For my 10k rows, which I have been enjoy a lot, my average SPM is 18-19 and my pace is around 2:22.
Height is 5 foot 11 inches
Weight is 203 lbs
Age: 32
Male.
Drag Factor is usually 102.
Avg Watts is around 120
I have been looking at age standards and it appears that my rowing level is very beginner.
Is my form that off that I am not putting up better numbers?
From what I keep reading in the forms, it appears that I should be better numbers. I know this isn't a competition, but I am using this is a way to understand my rowing better. I want to continue rowing longterm to de-stress and overall fitness. This is my main form of fitness. I am coming from a relatively sedentary life-style.
Thanks!

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum.

There's not a simple answer tbh. It could be because you're not doing enough variety so you've plateaued. It could be a technique issue(s). It could be a lack of recovery because you're rowing every day, possibly at too fast a pace for your current ability.

Also, your drag factor maybe too low, or your more suited to higher stroke rates or you need to get stronger and/or more flexible.

Sorry if this sounds a bit flippant, but there's a lot of possible reasons and you'll possibly need to consider all of the above and maybe more. The good news is that you should get faster when you identify what the specific issue(s) are.

How have you landed on that pace, and do you row using HR monitor or just using rate of perceived exertion (RPE)? If it's the latter what would you say it feels like out of 10 for the 2:15 pace and 2:25 pace?

[MPx]

Sounds like you've taken a sensible approach and have eased yourself in nicely. Form is critical, but you've done enough so that what you do is now in muscle memory - it will be relatively hard to change or "fix" very much...but obvs not impossible over time.

So what you need to do to go faster is to work harder - aint that ever the way! Don't change everything all at once...but pick some of the stuff Stu refers to and see what seems to work best for you. eg:

You're a reasonably big guy at over 200 pounds - so its possible (even likely) that the DF you're using is too low. Try increasing over a couple of weeks or so, maybe upping 5 at a time every 3 sessions 'til you get to 130. And keep it there for a week. Only then make a judgement if its better or worse for you with higher DF. Just upping it in one hit and hoping for a miracle will deffo not work and feel worse.

Try a few fast interval sessions (one or two a week) as a change from long and long. Things like 6x500 2r or 8x500 3:30r or 16x250 90"r. You should be able to get through those at under 2:00 pace. Try it.

If you find you like varying your sessions a bit more then maybe pick up a structured plan (like the Pete Plan beginners https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/). It cycles around specific pieces and encourages improvements in each cycle. Can be tough but has proven positive results. There's even a thread on it in the training section that you could join in with....

[Ombrax]

Welcome to the forum. : )

Depending on what you prefer, you have a choice between a structured training plan, where you follow a generally pre-determined set of workouts, generally constructed by someone else (say, the BPP or the PP) and a more informal plan, where you "row your own." The first option is almost certainly more likely to yield better results, but IMO it's worth only if you like it enough to keep at it over time.

Either way, IMO one of the keys to improving is knowing that you're going to need to push yourself. Not necessarily every session, because that's counterproductive, but you're going to have to challenge your body in order for it to respond to the training, and the more response you want (i.e. improvement) the more you're going to have to work at it.

BTW, indoor rowing can be a rewarding and good for your health even if you aren't doing 2Ks at a 1:50 pace. I guarantee you that if you randomly took 100 willing volunteers from a crowded American street, gave them three 15 minute "learn to erg" sessions, following which for the next year they rowed 20-30 minutes every other day, slowly improving from a 2:45 pace (so, super slow) to as close to 2:00 (or faster) as they could, they would be vastly healthier than they were at the start of the project.

The two most important things are 1) keep at it, and 2) keep pushing yourself (but safely, to avoid over-use or bad-technique injuries).

Best of luck.

[jamesg]

Is my form that off that I am not putting up better numbers?

Yes. Get to about 160W at rate 20 on the erg. This means pull long strokes hard.

Drag factor lets us control the speed of the pull. 102 may make the pull too quick.

To see your real capabilities, after your typical workout when really warm, pull long strokes as hard as possible for 3 to 5 minutes, at low rate. NB, Long work is useful only if the stroke is a big one.

Your other major problem is weight. You need to lose at least 30 pounds. 75kg (165 lb) would be ideal. Cholesterol is a killer, it blocks the arteries.

[Dimeech]

Appreciate all of these responses with valuable advise. I agree, I am realizing there are many things to consider. I need to organize myself and make sure I figure each possible issue and work on it.
So I am using an HR monitor. I find myself avg around 134 bpm for 10K rows (mainly zone 3 - 74%). I would say its about 5-6/10.
Again, I am being cautious with drag factor just to lessen risk of back issues.

***But today I did a new 10K after a day off.
My pace was much better (2:20). I know its slow, but I noticed my pace was more consistent throughout the 10K.
I increased drag factor to 121 and it felt much better for some reason. It did feel that the drive was "longer" and that I didn't need to work about pulling the chain quick.

I will consider doing the Pete Plan. I have been meaning to start it.

[Ombrax]

So I am using an HR monitor. I find myself avg around 134 bpm for 10K rows (mainly zone 3 - 74%). I would say its about 5-6/10.

I'll go out on a limb here, and suggest that perhaps you could push harder and work at a higher HR. Unless you have a congenitally low max HR, at 32 yrs old I think you should have a higher avg for your workout.

Which brings up the next question: have you done a proper "put yourself through the wringer" test to get your max rowing HR? If not, you should consider getting a fix on what that is. If you search around on the forum here (or the web as a whole) you'll find a number of protocols to do that on the erg. It's no fun, but it's useful information.

[p_b82]

I'd second the "need to find HR max" at some point, as even knowing that can change the RPE.

Play around with the same pace at different rates as well; keep in mind how your legs feel, what your breathing feels like and whether your HR is drifting upwards or not

You'll get a feel for the "right" rate for you when the stroke all flows, breathing comes regularly and relaxed, it feels easy and everything is consistent.

Not saying that you then only row at that rate, but knowing where that rate is, will help you target your training.
Eg for me r23 is my natural cadence & I've learnt I'm cardio limited not strength limited.

I'd also not be too worried about whether you're a "beginner" or not pace wise, as long as you enjoy things, and you keep coming back, as long as you challenge yourself to have some incremental improvements - either distance or pace - you'll get fitter regardless.
If that is quick improvements great - if it takes a while - also great.

[gvcormac]

There are three ways to improve your pace: 1. Pull harder; 2. Pull farther (longer stroke); 3. Pull more often (higher stroke rate). Or any combination of these. Which combination is most efficient for you? How to measure efficiency?

Probably the best way to measure efficiency is to see what heart rate you achieve after 20 minutes of a particular strategy. If you see a higher pace with the same or lower heart rate, or a lower heart rate with the same of better pace, you're more efficient.

I think you'll be surprised to find that varying these factors doesn't change your efficiency all that much, so it is just a matter of preference. If you have a really slow stroke rate and your muscles are burning, a higher stroke rate might help. If you're frantically yanking with your feet to recover after each stroke, a lower stroke rate might help. If you're leaning way back, a shorter stroke might help.

In my opinion it is a mistake to focus on these factors individually. Do what's comfortable and figure out what pace/HR results. As to what's comfortable, I think respiration rate is the best judge. If you're not gasping for breath and your muscles aren't burning, you're doing OK. If you can increase the pace without either of these happening, go for it.

[iain]

Posted a long response on your other thread. But in response to the above:

2:00 pace is hard work for most and will be a shock after 2:15 (42% more power!) While if you train for it I am sure you can achieve this and you might have the fitness to do so already, it may not be consistent with "destressing" and is likely to makie you sweat and breathe hard, at least initially!

BPP and most other plans are designed to optimse your performance over 2k, again do you want that? Many people just like a solid steady workout. I would recommend doing what you like doing. No plan will help if you don't keep at it!

We are all different body shapes, I am sure you know whether you are overweight. If you are naturally muscular the suggested weight might be a tough ask and not required to get healthy!

I would echo that HR is only meaningful when compared with what you can do. maximum HR varies 25% between top athletes at similar ages so the formulae may not apply to you. If HRMax wrong then so are the %ages and hence the band you are rowing in. But rowing at 73% of max is a good workout if done regularly. It will substantially increase your base fitness. Faster workouts are only required if you want to get very fit or row closer to your potential.